Timing cover is back on. I used a timing cover alignment tool I bought on eBay. I checked the diameter of my new balancer compared to the tool I bought and it was almost identical. Made it so easy not having to press on the balancer to get the timing cover aligned. The tool was a tight fit on the crank, but not so tight that that I needed to press it on.

New Dayco harmonic balancer. The pulley went on without any alignment issues.

Pulley back on.

Old chain vs. new chain.

Everything all buttoned up. Getting the motor mount and bracket to line up on the passenger side was a nightmare. I tried tie straps and a placing the floor jack in various areas to shift the engine with no success. What I had to do was loosen the transmission mount and the skid plate/crossmember and then jacked the engine up at the rear right in front of the bell housing. Eventually things worked out.

Stainless hardware I bought from McMaster Carr. They are serrated flange bolts. If you want part numbers, I can provide them.

So all in all, my timing is rock solid now when the Jeep is idling. No more bouncing timing mark. The engine seems to be less shaky and it feels like it's smoother across the RPM range. I am still having a pinging problem that is probably attributed to the Howell fuel map which will be addressed soon by a local tuner.

Any questions?

 

Eventually things worked out.

Great topic. Very nicely presented! Thanks very much for sharing!

Why is your jack handle at that orientation? When I obtained then installed my jack and bracket, no longer on the floor by the driver's seat, I use the handle orientation shown.

Stainless hardware I bought from McMaster Carr. They are serrated flange bolts. If you want part numbers, I can provide them.

What is the location / application for these serrated flange nuts / bolts?

Note that stainless hardware should not be used in strength applications, such as motor mounts. Stainless hardware does not have strength rating. Instead hardware w/ strength rating such as Grade 8 should be used where strength rating is required, such as a motor mount.

 

Nice work.

 

Cool. What’s recommended mileage you replace that stuff. ?

 

Couldn't tell you. Every engine is different and every engine has been treated differently. I did it because I needed a baseline with my CJ, and if I ever trust it enough to take it on the freeway, I wanted to start with the engine being mechanically sound. It was also my last leak to address, so despite the whole job being a PITA, I'm glad I did it.

 

I was closely following the thread from @John Strenk when he did his timing chain as I had planned to mimic the same job on my '85. Let me just say that I hope to never do it again, but if I have to for any reason, at least the gaskets are all new and the HOURS of cleaning (more on this) I had to do, won't be required.

I have no idea how many miles I have on my '85 as the speedometer was not functioning when I acquired the Jeep mid last year, what displayed on the speedometer was around 96,000 miles give or take. A simple speedometer cable fixed the issue, but I could tell that it had been broken for a long time. Everything about this Jeep has been neglected by the previous owner who claimed to never drive the Jeep, but he also didn't spend a dime on it for the 10 years he owned it. I have been going through everything mechanical to get it working right and to eliminate all of the leaks, or at least get it under control.

When I did the valve cover, I was finally able to have a peek of the engine internals and it was not great. Lots and lots of carbon buildup, also from neglect, but I am lucky that my Jeep doesn't burn any oil, doesn't smoke, and it has great compression. Recently as some may have remembered, I converted my '85 to fuel injection with Howell's kit but a timing issue continued to plague me to which I attributed it to a stretched timing chain (presumably). Everything I do to this CJ requires 3x's the time as it fights me in everything I do, or maybe it's just me being a perfectionist being my biggest demise. I had a really bad rear main seal leak, oil pan gasket leak from the side of the block, a semi wobbly harmonic balancer and oil pressure fluctuations, albeit the oil pressure was within spec, but I wanted to replace the oil pump since I am going to be there.

Being that I wanted to the best parts for my CJ, I opted for:

• Cloyes double roller timing chain
• Felpro one piece rubber oil pan gasket
• Felpro rear main seal
• Melling oil pump (non high volume)
• Melling oil strainer
• Victor Reinz timing cover gasket & oil seal
• Dayco Harmonic Balancer

Here I am digging into the project. Radiator out, water pump pulley off.

....

Nice job. Glad you got the rear main cap off. I couldn't on mine. Not sure why.
Did you replace the snubber in the timing cover?

 

Did you replace the snubber in the timing cover?
View attachment 4170762

It's strange that AMC/Jeep put those tangs inside the timing cover for 258 engine. My original timing chain never had the snubber, they are only on the AMC 4 cylinder in conjunction with a spring tensioner mounted to the bottom of the engine block. The Jeep 4.0 engine also has the snubber and chain tensioner.
I was actually thinking of drilling and mounting the spring tensioner on my 258 block but thought the snubber was enough with the Cloyes Roller Chain.

Even though the chain I replaced wasn't that old, 2007, we replaced the cover with a new one as I didn't want aluminum floating around inside the engine. The snubber should help.

 

I see your oil slinger in the 'before' pic but not on the 'after' side. Did you put the oil slinger back on? I didn't have one at all when I opened my '79 258 timing chain cover so I have wondered if that year came with the slinger part and if I need to get one.

 

I just didn't take a picture of the oil slinger in place, but it was reinstalled. I read somewhere that the Cloyes double roller prevented the use of the oil slinger in the 258 engine, but I found that to not be true.

 

Looks like it was due for some love.
The timing chain was original (as were the gaskets ). You can tell by the nylon cam gear.
The internal crud buildup was a combination of old non detergent oil and short trips which didn't allow the oil to heat up and "wash" itself off the engine interior.

 

I wondered why some kits had the snubber and some didn't.

My cover didn't even has a place to install one.

 

That's not a snubber in the first pic. It's a sleeve for the damper if it has grooves worn into it from the seal. I had a groove in mine and replaced it. I didn't want to take a chance with the sleeve. I found a new one for $60.

 

Nice! I just did everything you did plus the thermostat and motor mounts. Was going to replace the water pump too but it looked new. I'm replacing the valve seals now and then changing to an aluminum valve cover.

 

Thought my water pump looked new as well but was shocked to see the condition it was actually in. SHOCKED! … lol. Replaced it with a FlowKooler Hi-Flow. Glad I opened it up!

 

So I’m looking back at this project here and for the life of me I do not remember seeing this sleeve falling out or being stuck on the old pump.

I have tried googling AMC 258 or Jeep 4.2 oil pump mounting and I have seen blocks with and without that sleeve. Should that sleeve be there?

I have also found that I have oil weeping from one of the bolts on the pan, not between the block and pan, but from the bolt. I gave the bolt a little more bubba torque, but I am not excited with the idea of dropping the pan again. I might remove the bolt, apply some ARP thread sealant and hope for the best before I drop the pan.

I am wondering if M.O.R.E’s Bombproof engine mounts permit the pan to be dropped without removing the engine mounts?

 

So I’m looking back at this project here and for the life of me I do not remember seeing this sleeve falling out or stuck on the old pump.

I have tried googling AMC 258 or Jeep 4.2 oil pump mounting and I have seen blocks with and without that sleeve. Should that sleeve be there?

I have also found that I have oil weeping from one of the bolts on the pan, not between the block and pan, but from the bolt. I gave the bolt a little more bubba torque, but I am not excited with the idea of dropping the pan again. I might remove the bolt, apply some ARP thread sealant and hope for the best before I drop the pan.

I am wondering if M.O.R.E’s Bombproof engine mounts permit the pan to be dropped without removing the engine mounts?

View attachment 4170879

Now you got me wondering also.
I'm going to have to go through my pictures and look at my old pump....

Still, I am showing 25PSI at idle and 45 PSI cruising.

 

I ve been a mechanic for over 40 years I've never known an engine block to have that recess in it that did not have a sleeve either in the block or on the oil pump itself that very well could be affecting your oil pressure

 

Neither John or I have oil pressure problems, I was just wondering if that sleeve was needed. Either way, I found on online as it's the same part number used a guide sleeve for a cylinder head on a Chrysler V8. If I have to remove my pan to address the weep, I might install it.

 

the oil pan leak / weep could be caused by a lesser grade bolt thats stretching
compare markings on the pan bolts
might find your problem
good luck

 

I also have had oil pan bolts to stretch.
And since most of my bills are on a budget I'm now grind a little bit off of each pan Bolt.
It don't take long l do this after l take them out of my parts washer.
I ve never had any weaping from oil pans or valve covers since starting this.
Good luck with your project.

 

Well, I checked this morning and I have seepage from one stinking bolt that is pointed to by the arrow in my picture. Probably due to me trying desperately trying to get the pan off. Either I warped the pan, or I marred the pan to the point where the pan gasket doesn’t have enough meat to seal.

I removed the bolt, but it was really snug from the serrations, so I’m glad they are doing their job not loosening. I checked the depth of the hole for the bolt, and I still had plenty of clearance. The bolt is not bottoming out.

I purchased a Spectra brand oil pan and will swap it out next weekend when it arrives on Wednesday. It’s probably for the better anyways as the threads on the pan for the drain plug was nearing its end of life. At least it’s not as in-depth as to what I did last weekend.

 

When I got Mr. Jeep in 1991 (258) he was running perfectly!

Only after a month or so something was going wrong and I discovered my rotor was

chewing on the towers on the inside of the distributor cap.

I showed my friend and we discussed "Why" for a bit and came to the conclusion that

the rotor shaft had a wobble to it and simply replacing the cap and rotor would not

be the correct fix.

I snatched the distributor and sure enough the bushings within it were worn and the shaft

had a slight bit of sideways play.

I also noticed the "Tip" that drove the oil pump, when viewed from the end, was not

exactly rectangular---but now sorta was on it's way to being a long diamond shape.

(it was still squared on the ends, but now slightly tapering from about the center towards each end.)

I PASSED THIS OFF as JUST BEING WEAR?????

I got my new distributor and compared them----Yes, a world of difference with all I motioned!

OF COURSE! I kept my core until the job was complete, as I have seen bad scenarios when the CORE

of something was swapped immediately at the counter and the new part was a NO-GO!

Days later---Core is never again available, the correct item is special, but the core would have

verified exactly what to order (seen this same issue with a set of brake rotors on my friends car)

Moral of the story! No getty money back till all is working good!

------NOW!-----

We go to put the distributor in.

It just would not drop in ?????

IT MIGHT WOULDA HAVE if something had not moved (I'm glad it did move)

I looked down the hole and discovered that one side of my oil pump shaft was now covering the center slot

and was no longer against the hole (as the other side still was)

As I sobbed and tears began to streamed down my face the whole time I took the pan off.

(this was spota be a EZ new distributor fix---but not anymore)

When I removed the oil pump---sure enough, one of the "ears" had broken off.

As I continued to survey the damage---Now in almost having a hysterical panic attack!

THE SLEEVE Y'ALL HAVE DISCUSSED

Had --- Had the broken chunk wedged inside and the Camshaft had driven the distributor shaft

kept forcibly turning the broken mess (for God knows how long)

Turning the SLEEVE (which should have remained in place and still)

The turning sleeve WALLERED out the hole in the block, rendering it unable to retain a new sleeve (if I even got one).

At this point, my gyna was hemorrhaging so bad and the panic attack was constant, a full bottle of Pamprin didn't

even knock off the edge.

At this point---I seeked out advise from a machine shop.

He told me that the sleeve was to insure perfect alignment of the oil pump to the block.

After me, "ARE YOU SURING?" him and his colleague 50 times or so, I felt better about what I did next.

Since Jeep #2 w/258, I've always installed a New high volume oil pump as an insurance policy,

Mr. Jeep now being Jeep #6, I was not quite ready before, but now with the pan off, he got one right now!

The auto machinist had told me to disregard the sleeve and install the pump without one.

"IT SHOULD BE OK"-----?????

All went just fine for 5 years,

I built an AMC 258 from a 1976 Hornet slowly as got the money for parts and machining, I finally assembled the whole deal.

Then that engine came out and the Hornet's went in in 6 hours time on a Saturday "Quick Swap"---along with a clutch set and a well planned out

flywheel resurface during the task!

I'll always cherish that Saturday, I think that was the "tightest bonding" time that me and my Dad worked so smoothly on

together. Everything fell into place like clockwork!

This "New" engine also got a new high volume pump when I built it.

The '76 also had the sleeve, I felt really good when I bolted the pump on as it was designed to be (no more 5 years of fear or worrying of

the possible BAD side effects of "a misaligned" oil pump from the previously damaged block)

My CJs have always been my Daily Drivers, I go into shock when they get sick!

------JEEPFELLER

 

@JEEPFELLER I truly value your knowledge and stories about Jeeps, but with all due respect, your post formatting is like jabbing needles in my eyes. It is unbearable to read. Not sure why some of your sentences break off into a new paragraph.

 

Airborne Ranger

Trained to use hand and arm signals

And whispers

Short concise sentencing (usually can be completed by the other guy) in keeping with "Noise Discipline".

This type of commo kept you and your Ranger buddies from being compromised behind enemy lines.

Since we voluntarily stand and salute the flag during the National anthem and were frequently drug tested, If somehow we got captured (an odd word,

for a Ranger to say) Since we did not play basketball. We would have probably been passed over for a swap, in lieu of some

unappreciative civilian.

Airborne Rangers, Like Eugene, "The Jeep", have magical abilities and can go anywhere and do anything!

This was my Destiny from early on!

I simply went to the Tendo store and grabbed the Ranger Cartridge and stuck it in my console player,

Within hours I found myself in the top 5 percent of of the whole military scheme.

I've heard they have one about heisting cars too----I bet I could top 5% there too!

I had thought about going to college "for Free", as my Dads employment at the local academic college

would have provided us youngins a free ticket.

However,

As much as I wanted to sit at the head of a classroom and teach whiney college boys English and Literature.

This would have put a hurt on adventures around the world, and it would have been a "Conflict of Interest" and would have

been considered some kinda harassment, with all the things that I have just sat back and allowed

them college gals to do to me!

Not wanting to highjack this one

Anybody else hate my stuff other than the one who have expressed it in the past?

------JEEPFELLER

 

Not wanting to highjack this one
------JEEPFELLER

@JEEPFELLER You just did.

If you can’t type out a simple sentence without unnecessary and random breaks, along with your rambling, you’re now on my ignore list. Whatever you have to say moving forward, I won’t see.

Stay on topic.

 

Nope Feller, you just keep rambling as you do, as this is not English class, and nice to have the comic relief from all the crap life deals us now days.

Either love ya, or hate ya, we still read ya loud and clear at the end of the day.

Change your style, and I would think you had a brain aneurysm like my wife did, then have to question if it was really you

 

Oh yes.....Lbsigman, really good work there

 

@John Strenk Did you have any clearance issues with your Melling high volume oil pump? My oil pressure is good with my new standard Melling pump but since I am going to have the pan off next weekend, thinking about putting a high volume pump in there.

I keep reading about the net positives and now my mind is going down that rabbit hole of ”what if”.

 

Not that I'm aware of. Pan bolted right up. No pushing involved.
Only hard part was attaching the pickup tube. I'm getting weak in my old age.
I probably should of put it in the freezer before I started,

 

A little more info that is sure to be useless!

Took these pics in Oct 2015, Before I ever figured out how to bless this site with my presence!

Our younger Jeep buddy (whom we'd been schoolin' along), blew up the raggedy engine in the Jeep he'd acquired

a few months earlier.

As His luck would have it, and mine would suffer, my other pal who owns a production engine machine shop had told me he

had something for me that he had found in the Hoard at his shop a week before. It was a crated 258 that he had bought in a deal, many years back with some other

engines. He was gonna let me have it for $700!

I was on the verge of pouncing!

This deal got passed on to "Little Jeep guy", as I could not bear to see his sadness of being without his Jeep.

When we uncrated it, he also decided to go with a High Volume pump from the Git-Go!

He ordered a pump from "SOMEWHERE" I have no clue where, but I do know he really liked using Quadratec?

(This is a screenshot from summit of a "supposed correct pump" [it may be right]----I just slung this in as a reference)

He was working on it, as he had time during college and called me saying the oil pan would not go on. I went over and found his engine hanging from the hoist

sorta like this (no tsure if this is a before or after shots)

Sure-Nuff it would not go on!

Whether he ordered it right OR they got it wrong OR this is what was meant by having "clearance issues" that I've seen some

of y'all put out there?

But in the past-----This had never happened to me! ----It made no sense.

We sorta eyeballed what was happening with the pump removed and hovering it in the pan

No doubt, the pickup would not slide straight down into the sump.

I ran back to my house and grabbed my New Spare (which I had misplaced it during my 1996 build)

I took it back and we compared it all. The pumps were identical, but the pick-ups were

configured different

Again, I could not bear to see his tears, so I offered my pump and pick-up to him until he returned his and purchased me a

correct nuther one.

This is how the CORRECT one fits into the pan.

So there you have it---Pics I only took, just to keep my camera from seizing up from sitting for long time periods.

Perhaps you can pipe wrench the "wrong pick-up" and rotate the tube to force it into the sump----and not wait for the correct one!

Send pics if you do crank on it!

As you can observe, I am, and should be called Stingyfeller, since I try to avoid helping anybody, even my so called friends.

-------STINGYFELLER

 

Received my sleeve just now. The Spectra oil pan should be delivered tomorrow and I’ll post up some pictures.

 

I checked my old oil pump and the sleeve wasn't in it. It wasn't in the pan or laying on the floor.
So i assume it's still in the block...

 

I checked my old oil pump and the sleeve wasn't in it. It wasn't in the pan or laying on the floor.
So i assume it's still in the block...

So strange on my end. Nothing was on the floor, nothing was in the oil pan, and I remember holding both oil pumps in my hand looking at both shafts, and I did not recall seeing a sleeve on the old pump.

The Melling high-volume pump should also be ready for pickup at Autozone tomorrow. Going to see how the sleeve sits on the new pump before I press it back into the block. I'm trying not to think of the process of pressing the pickup tube into the pump with that aviation sealant. Such a pain.

 

Received my Spectra oil pan today. The quality is phenomenal and I appreciate it being made in Canada. There Is a divot on the mating surface and a chunk of powder coating missing from the skid plate which I attributed it to shipping. When I got home, I noticed the cardboard box was rubbed open on the same side as the divot. Bummer.

I ordered a replacement from Amazon and wait to see how it is. If the replacement is worse, then I will try to flatten out the divot with some bar stock and a c-clamp.

I also picked up my high volume oil pump. Also shown is the sleeve on the pump which does not contact the drive shaft. I still don’t recall seeing it on the old pump, oh well.

 

Update - 1-30-2023

Sent the dinged Spectra pan back and got one that was perfect. Bought another Fel-Pro oil pan gasket (just in case) and a fresh tube of RTV for the four corners of the block Fel-Pro recommends applying a small dab.

Decided to swap out the standard volume oil pump for a high volume pump when I installed the sleeve. You can see in the picture the difference between the standard pump and the high volume pump. The HV pump is the taller of the two.

Took my time, made sure everything was clean and dry and I still have a damn leak. I just don’t have the time to do this again, and I hate hate hate unbolting the passenger side motor mount. It’s always a struggle getting the engine aligned.

One positive of this work, the oil pressure is further stabilized and the engine sounds a tad bit quieter (maybe?) from the added oil volume.

Bought a Victor Reinz one piece gasket to try. I read somewhere it’s ever so slightly different than the Fel-Pro gasket, we shall see when it arrives. For now, this damn Jeep is Just going to mark its territory whenever I drive it. 🤬

 

Nuther JEEPFELLER story!

Your pan pics reminded me!

Jeep #2, the year, 1983, in the 1st Ranger Battalion parking lot.

Gonna change them motor mounts out (they were probably just fine--1979 CJ-5 in 1983) But they looked all squished

and some cracks. It was a "do something-something mechanicing to the Jeep" day and then change the oil.

My buddy McCoy was assisting.

Having done this before with the older neighborhood kids, I was prepared with a socket set, 2' crowbar, and a bottle jack.

I had previously tore the lid off of a ammo crate to use as a wood buffer.

I drained the oil while we unbolted the mounts, then the crate top went on top of the bottle jack and against the oil pan skid plate.

I jacked up the engine up and down as needed to remove and install the new mounts.The crowbar was definitely needed to

rastle 'em in!

Task complete!

Install the oil plug, change the oil filter, install the Havoline. Slide everything out, fire him up!

Have oil pressure!

Check me out now---one of the few fellers in Battalion that does his own work!

We sorta BSed with other Rangers for a while, then as I told McCoy to fire him up and I would insure there was no leaking!

--------------------------LISTEN UP!-----THIS IS THE LESSON PART!!!-------------------------------

Before he fired him up, I knelt down----I see some dripping??-----maybe a drop every 3 seconds???

I wiped it all off (knowing I got the plug tight enough)

There it was, plain as the "Brown on the nose" of 1st Platoon's, platoon sgt., when he's talking with the 1st Sgt.

The oil was coming from between the skid plate and the pan. (but I had a wooden buffer on the jack??)

-------------------NEVER JACK UP THE ENGINE FROM UNDER THE OIL PAN USING IT'S SKID PLATE!!!!----------------------------

Don't even think it!

Here's the fun now!

Rec Services Garage (on post DIY garage, complete with 2-3 mechanic "advisors") was open!

I rushed him over there, paid $5 for bay rent.

I found a bucket and cleaned it, cleaner than new. Then I drained my Brand new oil in there to reuse.

I had my own tools so I did not have to rent them. (like for a dollar!)

Then I commenced to dropping the pan.

Since it was right there and rentable for $1, the cherry picker was now mine too!

I had to lift the engine about 2 inches to swing the pan off.

All of this was going on while McCoy went after an oil pan gasket.

I cleaned the pan and FOUND THAT I HAD PUSHED A SPOT WELD THROUGH THE PAN!

(As figgered)

I cleaned the pan and the Rec Services civilian feller said he would Braze the hole while I cleaned the gasket

off of the block, -------as it was now draws closer to closing time.

Looka There! He fixed it, he also did the other three dimples too as insurance (my pan had 4 spot welds)

I "rented" some of their yellow contact cement and RTV and put the cork gasket on the block, both rubber dealees on either end,

dabbed some RTV in the corners, installed the pan. Dropped the engine into place, anchored my mounts.

All that was left was to add my oil back in and roll my Jeep out, clean the bay, get my $5 back, go shower and off to the

Savannah clubs!

So I used a big funnel---Poured in the bucket of oil, backed away from my Jeep and then got to watch 6 quarts of

clear Havoline OOOZZZEE under our feet!

"Then a WTH???!!!!!", Exclaimed JEEPFELLER!

And then Mr. Rec Guy hands me the drain plug that he took out prior to brazing (never figgered out why he needed to?)

Then we rolled him out---leaving some trackage.

The rec guy started pouring a dam around the dinosaur juice with a big bag of oil dry, as I tried to make it soak up plowing

with a push broom..

Fast-Forward! Got the massive puddle up!

-----------------NEXT, LEARN HACK (back then we didn't call them that) FROM JEEPFELLER through the Rec Feller!------------

The bay had to be spotless!

----------HERE IT COMES!---------

Then Rec Feller handed me a 1 foot long 2 X 4 and sprinkled down a little Fresh oil dry.

Most folks just sweep oil dry back and forth over the spill and finally call it "Good".

Not here! You use the 2 X 4 like a trowel and scrub the oil dry in, until it is Dust!

It gets it all!-------It will also get 95% of any oil stain off of concrete with the "Scrub into Dust" method!

I "NOW" have 2-Short----2 X 4s in my Oil Dry bucket nowadays! One for me, one for my helper!

I got it all up, My $5 went towards oil dry.

Lastly!-------Installed my oil plug!!!!!!

Then we pushed my Jeep out of the gate, so they could close.

McCoy went to Western Auto and got me 6 more quarts of oil.

Yes,

Finally,

The End!

-----JEEPFELLER