Saw this on the yj forum but it didnt really lead anywhere. What mods do yall think would help out? frame reinforcemants, tow hitch, brakes, etc etc etc...
Increase towing capacity (lj) (tj)
jcm1983
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towing capacity of the LJ is 3500lbs, towing capacity of the TJ is 2000lbs. the main problem is stopping and the short wheelbase. you don't want to tow more than the rated value, if you need to, buy a 3/4 ton truck - its designed to tow stuff.
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I wouldn't go over the manufactures 3500 lbs on the LJ and the 2000 lbs with the TJ. I had a hidden hitch and it bolted further up the frame that just around the bumper. You could upgrade the front discs to the Vanco setup if you want more stopping power.
Definately brakes and wheel base for the TJ. I was towing about 1600 lbs (600lb trailer, 600lb ATV, and a 400lb ATV) a couple of weeks ago and had to make a quick stop from 35mph in the rain. Front brakes locked and I slid right out into an intersection from the trailer pushing me on the wet road. Luckily there were no cars coming from the other direction yet. Don't tow more than the rated amount or your trailer will drive your Jeep for you. Buy a beater truck if you need to tow more.
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brake controller, for brakes on a trailer. provided you got that, and you turn up the braking on the trailer, you should be able to tow more then the factory amount. if the trailer is braking at the same rate you are, it should stop it from taking command.
then again... i could be wrong. anyone use that setup? its what i was thinkin bout doing
i believe the drive line itself is rated for 5000lbs? the LJ and TJ is rated for alot less then it could do because of other portions of its construction...
then again... i could be wrong. anyone use that setup? its what i was thinkin bout doing
i believe the drive line itself is rated for 5000lbs? the LJ and TJ is rated for alot less then it could do because of other portions of its construction...
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....yup...
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bingo.....
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With the TJ you end up with a tail wagging the dog syndrome because it is very heavy (~3400Lbs) and has a very short wheel base so as soon as you go over 2000lbs you are gonna have a very scary experience trying to control the trailer and the stop it.
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In theroy this may work but in practice it's not safe, the reason they give you a tow rating is that is what the brakes are rated for with out assist, brakes on the trailer are a bonus, to save the wear on the vehicle, but if the brakes on the trailer fail which can and does happen you still have to stop that load with the Jeep. If you were towing 5000lbs with a jeep and the trailer brakes fail and you tried to stop you could fry the brakes or not be able to stop in time, and end up hitting that minivan full of kids on the way home from school, not to mention possibly kill yourself. The tow ratings are there for a reason. This said I have gone over tow ratings on 1 ton trucks a few times for very short distances, I would still not recommend this though. But 1000lbs extra cargo on a 1 ton truck is different than 1000lbs extra on a Jeep. I should also mention that if you get caught overweight the fines can be steep, and if you cause harm to some else or an accident, you are looking at fines, plus jail, plus getting sued.
Lots of inexperience, misinformation, and internet bad info regurgitation on this thread. The max tow rating assigned to Jeeps is indeed partially due to wheelbase, but to say that weight and wheelbase have a direct relationship is incorrect. The length of tow in comparison to wheelbase is what matters. As a matter of fact, the Jeep's short rear overhang in relation to wheelbase makes it a very stable tow rig for trailers in it's acceptable size and type range (under 17' of total tow). Since the mfg can not predict WHAT you are going to tow (i.e. 21' fishing boat vs. 4x8 utility loaded with bricks) they do have to add a semi-WAG factor to the formula when assigning a tow rating. (trailer size X should generally weight about Y and so forth)
Vehicle brakes are meant to stop the vehicle; trailer brakes are meant to stop the trailer. Even an F350 would have a difficult (probably impossible) time panic stopping a 30' travel trailer with just the truck brakes. When towing, you simply have to drive smart and give yourself lots of stopping distance. Due dilligence on trailer tire and brake maintenance is not an option.
I actually have set up and used both TJs and LJs to tow at and slightly above tow ratings.
Things to consider:
Jeeps start out with a aerodynamic disadvantage to most other tow rigs; towing anything with significant frontal area will be a challenge. I would avoid that personally unless you have eight cylinders under the hood. Proper gearing makes a big difference as well. suffice it to say that 3.07s aren't going to make you very happy while towing.
Brake Controller: No skimping allowed. Tekonsha Prodigy is best bang for buck here - has inertia braking and boost settings that really make a difference over other cheap-o units. I like brakes on nearly all trailers - there is an M101A2 in my garage right now getting rehab'd for general purpose use. It has surge brakes which are staying for now but electrics are going on it when the weather warms up.
Hitch: I use the Olympic AT rear bumper that was rated at 2K. In addition, I use the Rokmen style frame tie-ins. Yes, I am regularly exceeding it's "rating." Honestly, that isn't an issue to me considering that it has more secure attachment points than a frame mounted 3.5K hitch. Others may not feel comfortable with this; it's a free country (for now) so make your own decisions. When in doubt, the Hidden Hitch types will do the trick.
Tongue Weight: Double edged sword. More TW minimizes sway; too little causes it. Unfortunately Jeep coil springs are sort of wimpy. There are two solutions here - weight distribution hitch or air bags. All things being equal the WDH is better but not possible or practical for all applications. Since my trailers can't use the WDH, all of our Jeeps are airbagged. Simple adjusting the trailer load can make a big difference here too.
Sway Control: My SWB towing experience has never required one. In fact if it did require one it would lead me to believe that I needed to rethink the situation. It is possible that a lightweight but longish boat might need one and still be safe but I can't speak from personal experience on that.
Tires: It is my experience that MT type treads aren't the best for tow rigs. Tend to be "squirmy" if that makes sense. LT rated all terrains or all seasons seem to perform better regardless of what the tow vehicle is.
Speed: Slow down. Seriously, obey the posted limits and give yourself some space.
Vehicle brakes are meant to stop the vehicle; trailer brakes are meant to stop the trailer. Even an F350 would have a difficult (probably impossible) time panic stopping a 30' travel trailer with just the truck brakes. When towing, you simply have to drive smart and give yourself lots of stopping distance. Due dilligence on trailer tire and brake maintenance is not an option.
I actually have set up and used both TJs and LJs to tow at and slightly above tow ratings.
Things to consider:
Jeeps start out with a aerodynamic disadvantage to most other tow rigs; towing anything with significant frontal area will be a challenge. I would avoid that personally unless you have eight cylinders under the hood. Proper gearing makes a big difference as well. suffice it to say that 3.07s aren't going to make you very happy while towing.
Brake Controller: No skimping allowed. Tekonsha Prodigy is best bang for buck here - has inertia braking and boost settings that really make a difference over other cheap-o units. I like brakes on nearly all trailers - there is an M101A2 in my garage right now getting rehab'd for general purpose use. It has surge brakes which are staying for now but electrics are going on it when the weather warms up.
Hitch: I use the Olympic AT rear bumper that was rated at 2K. In addition, I use the Rokmen style frame tie-ins. Yes, I am regularly exceeding it's "rating." Honestly, that isn't an issue to me considering that it has more secure attachment points than a frame mounted 3.5K hitch. Others may not feel comfortable with this; it's a free country (for now) so make your own decisions. When in doubt, the Hidden Hitch types will do the trick.
Tongue Weight: Double edged sword. More TW minimizes sway; too little causes it. Unfortunately Jeep coil springs are sort of wimpy. There are two solutions here - weight distribution hitch or air bags. All things being equal the WDH is better but not possible or practical for all applications. Since my trailers can't use the WDH, all of our Jeeps are airbagged. Simple adjusting the trailer load can make a big difference here too.
Sway Control: My SWB towing experience has never required one. In fact if it did require one it would lead me to believe that I needed to rethink the situation. It is possible that a lightweight but longish boat might need one and still be safe but I can't speak from personal experience on that.
Tires: It is my experience that MT type treads aren't the best for tow rigs. Tend to be "squirmy" if that makes sense. LT rated all terrains or all seasons seem to perform better regardless of what the tow vehicle is.
Speed: Slow down. Seriously, obey the posted limits and give yourself some space.
Great text book answer, but my direct experience is do not tow more than the rating. My 1600#, 10ft trailer load feels like the limits for my TJ and I have been towing trailers with various vehicles for years all over the country. Yes, you can safely tow well over the rated capacity with a TJ, but I would not do it often because like the situation I had. There can be that instance in a driving situation that it will put you in a spot where you do not want to be. DEFINATELY give yoruself lots of room when towing with your TJ. Excellent post and great information.
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You cannot safely tow 5k lbs, no matter how many frame reinforments you weld on it. your springs wont support the tongue weight, your axles wont support it and your front end will lift up a lot. neither the 6-speed nor the automatic is up to the task. the frame is definitely not the weak link here, its everything else.
but hey, go for it, don't say we didn't try to warn you. You may just win a nomination for the Darwin Award.
NOOOO. The problem is neither brakes nor frame. The frame is just as strong as any full size truck's frame, and brakes won't help very much.
The problem is wheelbase.
5K is getting up there pretty good. What are you trying to tow?
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A couple of guys I work with (we're all Mechanical Engineers) used to work for Dana (yes, the company who made your axles). Both the guys worked in testing and they had a frame test rig setup. They both told me the TJ frame was the weakest thing they ever put on that test rig.
Now, does that matter? I don't see any reason why it does, but it is apparently NOT as strong as any other full size truck's frame.
No it isn't.
Wheelbase and towed weight aren't directy related. The overall length of the trailer is what needs to be considered in relation to the wheelbase and rear overhang of the tow rig. A TJ towing a 17' ball to bumper trailer is proportional to a Ford Excursion dragging about 26'. Length = stability; weight = what can be reasonably pulled and more importantly stopped.
With a very well set up TJ and trailer, up to about 17 feet with no frontal area, I would personally feel safe up to about 2.5K including passengers/cargo give or take a couple hundred. I probably would give the LJ no more than a few extra feet and at most fifteen to seventeen hundred additional pounds. At 4K you are looking at 400-600 pounds dead tongue weight. Without a WDH, that is going to be a lot of weight on the back. Even using airbags I would have to weigh in each axle when loaded. Just guessing, but I think that the transfer of weight off of the front axle wouldn't be safe or comfortable at 400 lbs without WDH. I don't recall the GAWR for the D44, but that needs to be taken into account as well.
Of course pretty much any of this is going to be over the vehicle and hitch "rating", so you're always on your own there. As mentioned by others, this is the Litigious States of America; caveat emptor.
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