Bump:
I have the same ?.

 

no og's on today?

 

Your method is simple and sound - center the axle under the Jeep without the trackbar in place, and with weight on the wheels. Attach trackbar. Tighten bolts to spec.

As for the different lengths of control arms, that's not normal if your mounting points are undamaged. Might want to revisit that one, because you're changing the wheelbase from one side to the other the way you've got it now.

 

Remove on factory link, install one aftermarket link adjusted to fit, then repeat until all have been replaced. It's normal to have on link longer or shorter than the other because the factory brackets aren't 100%... Using aftermarket arms with better ends will show where the factory stuff wasn't lined up 100%. With all 4 of the new control arms installed, Jump up and down on your bumper several times and the Jeep will settle into it's natural state, then install the track bar adjusted to where it bolts up nice and snug and you should be good to go. :thumbsup:

 

With all 4 of the new control arms installed, Jump up and down on your bumper several times and the Jeep will settle into it's natural state, then install the track bar adjusted to where it bolts up nice and snug and you should be good to go. :thumbsup:

That only works with bushings that self-center.

Cross-measurement verifies squareness. Adjust the control arms until the points match. I use the center nutsert to common points on the axles to initially square them to the frame then cross-measure. If minor adjustments are needed to fix a discrepancy, I make them. Getting the axles perfectly square, centered, and rotated right isn't a fast, easy process. It takes some time and patience and you need to realize when you make one adjustment, you'll probably need to make one somewhere else to compensate.

 

i have driven it about 2k miles now since i installed the lift and everything, it seemed to track straight and felt like the caster was good just had the slight pull to the right if i let go of the wheel. maybe i didnt get them exact like i thought i did the first time. i hope letting the tension off the upper passenger side arm will make the drifting go away, as i had to use a come along to get the bolt out. main concern is the bumpstop on the coil.

 

a pull to the right, or following the road crown is a sign of caster being low. it may or may not be a concern. having a good pinion angle that doesn't give you vibes is slightly more important. if you can't stand the pull, start lowering your pinion til you end up with vibes and the run it back up a degree or so. at that point caster should be the best you'll get out of a lifted rig without cutting and turning the knuckles.

 

Use a tape measure to measure the distance between the LF and RR tires, and again between the RF and LR tires. If those two measurements are the same, the axles are square/parallel to each other.

 

That only works with bushings that self-center.

Cross-measurement verifies squareness. Adjust the control arms until the points match. I use the center nutsert to common points on the axles to initially square them to the frame then cross-measure. If minor adjustments are needed to fix a discrepancy, I make them. Getting the axles perfectly square, centered, and rotated right isn't a fast, easy process. It takes some time and patience and you need to realize when you make one adjustment, you'll probably need to make one somewhere else to compensate.

To add to Jerry and Impeds post, also ensure you have the same wheelbase both sides.
It is possible to cross measure and have the exact same measurements but still be out of square if both sides do not have matching wheelbase.

Both the cross axle measurement and the wheelbase measurement need to be performed as Vinman pointed out, however the vehicle also needs to be on a very level surface, and the body/frame must also be level. Not all control arms are double adjustable, so even with tape measures and perfectly level starting points, the variances in the factory control arm mounts would cause precise equality to be rarely achieved. That's a lot of work to put into something that will change as soon as the driver gets in the seat, or if one spring is softer than the rest or the Jeep is loaded unevenly. It's best reserved for set up of a custom suspension when everything is fitted up on a Jig and trued for square, but seems a bit of over kill for the average Jeep.

And Imped, the factory control arm mounts are triangulated only slightly, but it's enough that the axles will try to center themselves even using non self centering joints such as the Currie JJ's.

 

Do you check for square before hooking the trackbars up, just working off the conrtol arms? Also where are some good points to cross measure?

 

thanks for the info guys, just what i was lookin for

 

To add to Jerry and Impeds post, also ensure you have the same wheelbase both sides.
It is possible to cross measure and have the exact same measurements but still be out of square if both sides do not have matching wheelbase.

 

It is possible to cross measure and have the exact same measurements but still be out of square if both sides do not have matching wheelbase.

Not that it would hurt to have more measurements to be more specific/accurate but I can't resist this one...

Is this a Canadian rectangle we're dealing with?

:cheers2:

 

I think the accuracy one can achieve in using a tape measure between axles and kitty corner brackets between axles is probably less accurate than just adjusting the arm sets the same length like the factory does.

 

all great info, i dont remember having any problems with the lowers, but to be sure on the uppers i set the pinion angle with one and adjust the other upper to slide the bolt in correct? ive yet to drive it since i let the tension off the front passenger upper as im still wiring my pumps under the hood and need to put the skid back on. i hope that was the reason for pulling to the right, still need to set tow again as well.

 

After not being able to get definate answers or methods for checking some alignment measurments I gave in and took it to a front end shop. They did confirm my caster setting was what I thought I set it at along with Toe being pretty close but my main concern was both axles were squared up . So now I have answers and can go on with the process of elimination knowing what is correct . I say just give in a pay a couple bucks and feel better knowing what " is " right on the jeep

 

What about pinion angle? The shop I asked was only concerned about caster, needless to say I did it myself. Pinion angle takes precedence over caster.

 

I only have 3" lift which means you can set what ever caster you like and not have any pinion angle issues.

 

thats not always the case with 3".

 

EDITED : To make it simpler when couldn't you with only 3" baring a flat skid.

I see said the blind man, you do have some skid work . In that case keep increasing caster until you find you are getting vibes then back off then you have all the caster you are going to get with the more common methods.

 

Larger tires require less caster. Keep your lift height only as tall as you need to clear the tires you're running, and caster shouldn't be an issue... 6" of lift with 31's... prolly not a good idea caster wise...

 

the steering in mine seems good and turning to, ive never had front vibs as far as i could tell. if anything they were to high and the skid made it just about right. i notice it in the rear more but it seems a tad under a straight angle now.

 

OK, let me rephrase......

Caster should take precedence.

 

Again, yes it "should", but it won't always because the pinion angle has to be dealt with.

 

I have mine at an actual 6.2 degrees with 3" BDS springs . I know at one point I had closer to , if not 7 and still had no vibes but I do have the stock shovel skid plate . At that time I also had a MML installed which can't help front DS angle either .

 

Personally I set my control arms to the same length (right - left). When re-installing them; some of the bolt holes were very far off until I cycled the suspension one way or the other and they come into place on there own. I would not adjust the control arms just to get the bolt back into the axle. You will not end up with squared up axles... This should be ok providing your mounting points on your frame and axle are the same from one side to the other and not bent.

When installing my long arm kit, I used the method above and had an alignment done afterward. I didn't require any adjustments at all.

Take measurements as described by everyone else and you should be able to see this. As far as setting the axle side to side with the track bar; I measure off the frame to a spot on the axle and adjust the track bar until they are even at ride height. This usually takes some pushing on the body one way or the other to get everything bolted up once adjusted properly.

 

Personally I set my control arms to the same length (right - left). When re-installing them; some of the bolt holes were very far off until I cycled the suspension one way or the other and they come into place on there own. I would not adjust the control arms just to get the bolt back into the axle. You will not end up with squared up axles... This should be ok providing your mounting points on your frame and axle are the same from one side to the other and not bent.

As long as the rig is sitting level at right height, there is nothing wrong with floating the uppers to get them to the mounts regardless of what length they are to each other. That is unless your end game is to preload them differently and mine isn't. I've installed hundreds of uppers and have yet to make them the same length unless it was accidental.

When installing my long arm kit, I used the method above and had an alignment done afterward. I didn't require any adjustments at all.

Statistical example of one sample is a poor way to judge the overall effect of a practice.

Take measurements as described by everyone else and you should be able to see this. As far as setting the axle side to side with the track bar; I measure off the frame to a spot on the axle and adjust the track bar until they are even at ride height. This usually takes some pushing on the body one way or the other to get everything bolted up once adjusted properly.

How does that work if the rig isn't level side to side?

 

NY Rubi: On all of the rigs you've set up, were the axles square and centered at ride height? How did you verify it?

That's all that matters. If you don't know and you didn't verify it, you just think your methodology works but haven't proven it, right? There's no way in hell I'd set my or anyone else's Jeep up by setting the arms to equal length, installing, and calling it good--factory mounts or not. No way.

 

Verified first with a tape measure and string (rough alignment), and at the alignment shop. I always do an alignment after installing a lift. They have all been either dead nuts on, or a very small adjustment to one control arm (always an upper). To each there own; I've had no issue's with my method; no premature wear and they all go down the road completely straight. I got 35K miles out of my last set of MTR's! Tire wear is perfect, same on all the other jeeps I've setup.

My point was not to have the arms at the same length. It was that if you have to use a come-along to get the holes even close, you have something adjusted incorrectly or maybe you need to move the axle into place. You shouldn't need a come-along.

How do you go about verifying your setup?

 

Now I remember why I don't usually post anything on this site

 

I remember why it doesn't bother me that you feel that way.

 

i am thinking when i measured center to center before i installed the arms i didnt have them exact, hopefully ill get my skid back on today and set the toe and take it for a drive. seems like i work on one thing and got to adjust 3 others

 

What methodology would be best to use. I ask because I have no level ground to work on. My Jeep is sitting in the yard in somewhat level spot (I live on a hill) where I've been working on it. I've been doing a lot of work to it where it sits while I wait for my 8.8 to arrive (blew the 35). I know a lot of people on here don't have garages. So far the work Ive done has not required level ground, but soon I will be installing my new 8.8, 3" springs and Savvy control arms. I am planning to use my levels to set 4 6x12x3' beam chunks I have under the jeep for this. How accurate does this need to be? Ive poured a lot of concrete slabs and flat work is never really flat.

 

It is not so much that the rig has to be perfectly level, but that the axle is parallel to the frame depending on spring heights of course.

If I get in a bind and have a rig slightly off kilter, I just square the axle up to be parallel side to side with the frame.

 

So with the Jeep on jack stands on the frame and springs out I should be able to set the lowers all by measurement square, parallel and centered both ways? Should the rear be set so the tires are centered in the wheel wells at full bump? What about the front, what to reference to? Then set the uppers for pinion angle/caster with weight on the tires, Jeep sitting level side to side?
I am really trying to wrap my mind around this.
Thanks for the help:cheers2: