OK, first, the Weber 32/36 isn't the correct carb for your 258. It's too small, and it's better suited for a 4-banger. As a result, if/when you get the plumbing sorted out, you will fight tuning that carb, and it will provide sub-par performance. To your questions...

1. Correct
2. The PCV valve attaches to the largest manifold vacuum port usually located on the adapter plate.
3. Yes, the float bowl vent should connect to the charcoal canister.
4. Yes, the rear port on the valve cover is the fresh air intake for the PCV system. You can either connect it to the air cleaner assembly like the factory did, or you can use a stand alone breather filter.
5. If the port you've described is manifold vacuum, you should be OK.
6. No, it is not needed. Just use one side or the other for the fuel inlet.
7. The 1-in/2-out fuel filter is what the factory used. The second outlet, on the perimeter of the filter, should return to the fuel tank. This type of filter servers to regulate fuel pressure and reduce possible vapor lock issues. The filter should sit level at approximately the same height as the carb fuel inlet, and the return line should be in the 12 o-clock position.

Hope this helps,

Matt

 

Thanks Matt,

Appreciate the reply with answers.

The Jeep runs pretty good as it is, but I do have a couple issues I will look into once I get all of this plumbing sorted out and corrected.

First is that it is hard to start after sitting for several days. It's like the carb and fuel lines are all empty and it has to prime the whole system from the tank. Once it has been started, or if I'm restarting in the same day or so, it's starts instantly as good as EFI. Let it sit for a week and I'll have to crank it over for a long time before it will start. I assume that the fuel is syphoning back to the tank somehow.

Second is that the engine seems to fall flat at a specific RPM...not sure if it's maxed out on throttle linkage or fuel or what, but to run it through the gears it feels like it has a rev limiter. I don't have a tach, so I can't say what RPM this happens. The Jeep has a T5 and (I think) 4:10 diffs, so maybe it's just the gearing...I don't know, but I will look into this later when I can dial in the timing and fuel (if possible).

I haven't done a compression test yet but will be soon. So far I have only checked oil pressure and it was at 56 psi at idle (still relatively cold) and shoots over 60psi when I'd rev it. I was using a good mechanical gauge I have on hand as the factory gauge in the dash is not working.

Anyway, I'll get the plumbing and basic tune-up stuff sorted out and will then look at the carb some more. I had an EFI swap in mind, but if the Weebers work as good as everybody says they do, then maybe I don't need EFI.

PS: One last question...

The vacuum advance for the distributor: Is it supposed to get full manifold vacuum all the time and NOT ported vacuum? I'm used to only using ported vacuum for this with Holley Carbs on my old Fords, etc.

Thanks again for the reply.

 

Thanks Matt,

Appreciate the reply with answers.

The Jeep runs pretty good as it is, but I do have a couple issues I will look into once I get all of this plumbing sorted out and corrected.

First is that it is hard to start after sitting for several days. It's like the carb and fuel lines are all empty and it has to prime the whole system from the tank. Once it has been started, or if I'm restarting in the same day or so, it's starts instantly as good as EFI. Let it sit for a week and I'll have to crank it over for a long time before it will start. I assume that the fuel is syphoning back to the tank somehow.

There is excellent recomedations to fix your fuel siphon issues.
Gelsurf has posted pictures that illustrate the throttle plates exposing the enriching hole. The solution is to close the throttle plate below the enriching hole! The 32mm throttle plate is too small for a reasonable idle speed 650RPM. You will NEED to drill a hole in the throttle plate to increase the CFM for idle speed and keep the leading edge of the throttle plate at or below the enriching hole.

The Carter BBD, Weber 38DGES, and the Motocraft 2100/2150 are all very close to the same size. They have tow barrels that open at the same time. This is the correct size carb for the any 6 cyl engine. The 32/36 DGEV is too small for a 6 cyl engine.

I highly recommend starting with a 1/16" hole in the primary throttle plate as shown on Gelsurfs post. If that isn't enough, go to 3/32".

Works great, lasts a long time.
UTN

 

You can use ported vacuum, but would suggest full manifold vacuum.

I also "had" a Weber 32/36 years ago and it was just like what Matt said, under powered for the 258 engine. Switched back to a Carter BBD without the stepper motor and been happy ever since. The Weber 32/36 was not an economy carb as advertised since my foot was always in the gas pedal to get my CJ rolling fast enough to keep up with traffic. I also have 32" tires and 4.10 gears with a T5 transmission. The Weber 32/36 would just fall flat at higher rpms due to the lack of CFM's. And it was a pain to keep tuned.

Here's some pictures for you of Weber 32/36 vacuum and fuel lines.

 

Here's some pictures for you of Weber 32/36 vacuum and fuel lines.

I wanted to report back after a little bit of driving time. Thanks again Keith460 for the detailed plumbing pictures, they were a big help (and I have them saved for future reference if needed). Now that I have all of my PCV and CCV plumbing corrected, I cleaned up the engine and valve cover and they're staying clean and dry like they're supposed to! The Jeep isn't even leaking on the floor like it was. I thought the rear main seal might be bad...and it may still be, but there was so much residual oil everywhere it was hard to see exactly where it was coming from. In any case, now that I'm relieving the crankcase pressure, the leaks seem to have subsided. Imagine that lol.

I'm not 100% sure what the future carb plans are, but the 32/36 is staying for now...at least to finish off this season. I'm just trying to cover some of the maintenance basics for now and I won't get into anything more serious until I take it off the road later this fall.

Thanks again folks. Appreciate all of the help.

 

Thanks for the pics and explanation Keith, much appreciated. You guys have me all fixed up now!

One quick question: In your pic below...what is the vacuum line going to where I put the red arrow? I'm assuming power brake booster? My CJ7 has manual brakes, and this port in the manifold is simply plugged. It looks like a factory plug...well, it's not a typical industrial/residential plumbing plug.

 

Yes, that goes to the brake booster. If you don't have one, they just plug it.

I have one like that. Odd looking plug. The sides of the hex are raised.
I never pulled it out but I bet the other end is machined to fit the flare in the port

 

Yes, that's it! It looks more like an automotive fitting than a typical plumbing fitting, so it looked like it was supposed to be there.

 

I also recommend manifold vacuum to the vac advance. You will get a stronger idle due to combustion efficiency, which will allow you to back off the idle speed screw to achieve a 650-700 RPM idle.

That said, I wouldn't even waste my time trying to make the 32/36 work. I was also duped by the false advertising and tried the 32/36. I had the same performance problems you've described. 6 months later, I switched to the Weber 38/38, which made a world of difference. It was night and day.

Redline sells a K551 38/38 DGES kit that is specifically tailored for a 258. If you are at or near sea level, it will be virtually plug and play. If you are at higher elevations, it will require an easy to do jetting change. On this forum, we've helped dozens of 258 owners make this swap with almost 100% satisfaction.

Matt

 

I also recommend manifold vacuum to the vac advance. You will get a stronger idle due to combustion efficiency, which will allow you to back off the idle speed screw to achieve a 650-700 RPM idle.

That said, I wouldn't even waste my time trying to make the 32/36 work. I was also duped by the false advertising and tried the 32/36. I had the same performance problems you've described. 6 months later, I switched to the Weber 38/38, which made a world of difference. It was night and day.

Redline sells a K551 38/38 DGES kit that is specifically tailored for a 258. If you are at or near sea level, it will be virtually plug and play. If you are at higher elevations, it will require an easy to do jetting change. On this forum, we've helped dozens of 258 owners make this swap with almost 100% satisfaction.

Matt

Thanks Matt,

I'll definitely look into the Weber 38/38 kit. To be honest, I bought this CJ7 over a Facetime video and then traveled to pick it up. I didn't even know what was in it for a carburetor at the time.

Understood on the full manifold vacuum on the distributor advance. I'm not used to doing it that way, but I have no problem doing it if that is how it is meant to work. So, it makes me ask though...is the base timing set with vacuum applied or disconnected? I assume base timing is supposed to be around 8-10* BTDC?

This is my first 258 inline six. I have some experience with Ford 300 inline sixes, so that is where my mind wanders to with regards to set up.

 

I'm going to be the fly in the ointment here...

While I've been considering a 38/38 based on feedback, my `80 CJ7 with 258, 32/36, and 31" tires will pull 70mph anywhere other than uphill. I'll admit the emissions 'stuff' is gone but with proper timing and a HEI, she runs well and gets 15-16 mpg.

 

Thanks for the reply Mike.

I've been thinking about it the last few days, and while the 32/36 setup may not be the best one for power, my '83 seems to work well as it is and will also do 70mph on the highway. For the kind of driving I'll be doing, it would do me just fine. I'll explore a change after I take care of a bunch of other issues the Jeep has lol.

I pulled all six spark plugs the other night and they look perfect, so that's promising. They are an NGK platinum plug that I wouldn't personally use, but I'll take care of that soon also. I'm just glad they weren't black with fuel or oil.

I grabbed a new fitting today to plug off one of the two fuel ports. Took a while to get the threads figured out, but they appear to be 10mm x1.0 metric. I thought they were 1/8" BSPP, but the local Parker guy says no. Anyway, I got a 10mm plug/cap and will start with getting the fuel line(s) sorted out this evening. I also want to change the clocking of the fuel filter and see if that helps my issues any.

Right now the main fueling issue I want to figure out is why I'm losing system prime after sitting for a few days. I'm hoping that reconfiguring the fuel lines will help. It must have something to do with that 1/4" return line.

 

If you're capping off the return line, get a pressure regulator. The filter and return line are the simple setup.

As to the 'prime', I'd check for leaks although I'd expect the float bowl to evaporate over time. It shouldn't take much to refill the bowl. Can you better describe what's happening? When you say 'losing system prime', are you referring to the fuel pump?

 

As to the 'prime', I'd check for leaks although I'd expect the float bowl to evaporate over time. It shouldn't take much to refill the bowl. Can you better describe what's happening? When you say 'losing system prime', are you referring to the fuel pump?

Hey Mike,

When I say losing prime I mean that if the Jeep sits any more than a couple days, it's hard to start, like it has to pull fuel all the way from the tank. I have to crank it for way too long. Once it's running, or to re-start it within the same day or two no problem at all. I disconnected the fuel lines from the carb last night, and no fuel came out...lines are empty.

I'm OK with the float bowl evaporating after a longer time, but not this quick.

I've been running old 80's Ford engines the last number of years in 3 or 4 different rehab projects, and they always started right up with just a pump or two of the pedal, even after sitting for a week or two or longer.

This Jeep just seems like it's syphoning back to the tank somehow...it happens quicker than it would evaporate in my opinion. I'm not used to the dual outlet fuel filter with the 1/4" return to tank line. I'm trying to wrap my brain around that since I have always just had single direct lines from tank to pump to carb.

 

Drain back to the tank happens on mine too, but due to cracked rubber fuel line connections on the tank.....most suspect anyway.
Also like yours, when I get it started, will pop right off for a day or two, but sitting past that it does take a little to refill the lines.
When I fill over half tank, it sloshes and the lines get wet after driving over rougher terrain.
Keep it on the street, and all is good, but can still smell fumes when I get home.
Been like this since bringing it home 4 years ago, and need to repair those :/
Good thing I do not drive interstate, as only around town, or light trails close to home.
Still running the mechanical fuel pump that came with it, and I do run the factory return line as designed, which keeps adequate pressure to the MC2100 carb.
Runs like a screaming ape, with no hesitation at all from idle to WOT, but try not to push it too hard as it is my putz around town/trails truck.
Rather enjoy it as is, then broke down and having to fix it.

To add....EFI will NEVER be an option on my Jeep, as I have a newer vehicle that came that way from the factory.
I love my carb

 

Drain back to the tank happens on mine too, but due to cracked rubber fuel line connections on the tank.....most suspect anyway.
Also like yours, when I get it started, will pop right off for a day or two, but sitting past that it does take a little to refill the lines.

This may very well be my problem too. This Jeep has a lot of old cracked rubber lines and bushings, etc. Every single leaf spring and shackle bushing rubber is cracked and split. The lines aren't much better.

 

BTW, I run off the ported vacuum rather than manifold.

 

Check your lines, from the tank to the pump. I'll wager you have a pin leak.

Seriously, I'd probably replace all non-steel from the sending unit to the pump (and the sending unit too, while you're at it).

The filter is your pressure regulator, sending excess back to the tank via the return line.

 

The problem of fuel leaving Weber Carbs is also on other vehicles as well. It's a common issue, and I've spent a lot of tail chasing to try and fix it. I mean, I did, but you won't want to do it, lol.

One thing to check is the throttle plates, if open too far they expose the progressive holes and they can leak into the intake. Here is a quick pic with a way to fix it and showing what I mean. if your plates are open a tad to get a good idle, close them more, and drill some holes. I haven't needed to do this, personally, but many have. And who knows, maybe I should, lol.

That said, the 32/36 vs the 38 is a typical carb debate, lol. The 32/36 would RIP off the line on my nuttered 258, but start to choke at higher RPM'S. High velocity, but low CFM.

I like my 38, and haven't outgrown it yet, and doubt I will, to be honest. I have done some things to it and the engine, but think a 38 is better overall, personally. And it rips, too off the line. I don't have a 32/36 to try anymore, so dunno how it would do on a more tricked out engine.

Another vote here for Manifold vac, lol.

 

Hey gehlsurf,

Thanks for the reply. Very interesting...I'm learning as I go here, so getting this information is important. So the fuel leaking out is one potential, but does this particular issue also cause cylinder washdown? I guess what I'm getting at is that my issue is more than the carb float bowl being empty, it's the whole fuel system being empty.

I don't want to burn too many calories trying to sort this out lol...I likely won't get into drilling holes in throttle plates, etc. I'm going to correct all of the plumbing messes on this Jeep and replace whatever new lines I need to, and then move on. If the carb gives me any issues after that it will likely get replaced with something different...possibly EFI. Anyway, that's a topic for another day as I have a bunch of other maintenance items to deal with first, and the old thing does run well as it is.

 

That, honestly I don't know. I don't know if fuel get go backwards in the fuel pump once it's raised up to the filter location, TBH.

As for cylinder wash down, again, kinda unsure. While running? I wouldn't think so, as you'd smell a very rich condition, among it running rough. While sitting? It could, and probably is, evaporating, to be honest.

The Weber is kinda known to empty a fuel bowl without running even without it leaving via the progression holes. Supposedly it tends to evaporate out, especially the newer fuels. So.... I would assume that while that fuel is in the intake, 2 things would happen. 1, it will just pool in the intake, or 2, it does make its way down into the cylinder. Either way, if the new fuel evaporates inside a little carb bowl, why wouldn't it evaporate out of an I take or inside a cylinder?

That's my guesses though. If anybody has other thoughts, I'd actually like to hear them, as this is my theories and what I've read on the internet, lol. Especially about the newer fuels. Does it really evaporate faster? Dunno.

 

There are so many simple things like if the air bleed jets get clogged, then the idle circuit makes a perfect syphon to drain the gas out of the bowl the the idle mixture holes.

I think someone has a free one if you want to try another 32-36 that didn't work either.

Come to think of it, Putting two of these would be like intalling a 4BBL on your CJ. Might have to come up with your own manifold design though.

Just plug the middle on or find another 32-36

 

When I rebuilt my CJ I replaced all fuel lines and installed a Weber 38.
I also had the fuel drain issue so I eventually replaced the pump with a Carter P4594 electric pump.
At the time it was the recommended high volume low pressure pump.
I will now run the pump for 15-20 seconds before attempting to crank and it will have the bowls primed.
In hindsight I would have left the mechanical pump and just used the electrical to prime the system.
Reading through various posts on here now , it seems a good non leaking mechanical pump is next to impossible to find , so I’m leaving it as is for now.

 

Try a 1 way valve in the fuel feed line?
Could put in rubber line right before the pump.

 

I tried that with no luck, but maybe it would work on his.

One place I didn't try was the vapor line. OP, you sure it's definitely leaking fuel into the intake? And not evaporating?

 

I paid a lot for my 32/36 that I really didn't have to blow.

I had read their ads in multiple magazines and they PROMISED 20% more MPGs than the current Carter BBD.

My BBD was tweaked out and I got 16 MPG on the highway.

This 20% would have really paid off in the long run as I was doing about 70 miles round trip to work.

I bought one in "2000". It would not cooperate.

Somewhere in there, I also got me a 21 gallon Poly fuel tank, I was tired of filling up so often.

I called the help line/ bought little brass goodies/ and I kept somewhat decent records of what I changed,

road conditions, weather, and other maintenance I did along the way.

The "Help Spaniards" continued to string me along, and I tried so many combinations of the

brass stuff (With very little legitimate guidance)

Thinking it was "ME", I kept giving it chances for several years.

The carb did work just as well as my BBD, it too, gave me 16 MPGs on the highway.

I will give it that much

But

I could have saved my money and stayed with BBD!

IT NEVER PERFORMED ANY BETTER--Not 20%---Not 1%

So like I still have it in a 5 gallon bucket and a bizillion dollars of brass crap (That's spanish $$$)

I finally gave up on the Crappy thing.

Now that 3 years or so had passed and I had wasted my money and so much TIME with it.

It went in the bucket with it's tuning crap.

I decided I would get better MPGs no matter what the cost, and I would NEVER try another "W" brand misleading carb.

I have a Holley 390 and a Offenhauser 4 barrel carb on my Spectacular rebuilt 28 year old 258 in Daily Driver Mr. Jeep!

Yeah, it cost a little, it would have been even way less if I had applied the 32/36 gold mine towards it.

But I do get 18 MPGs on the Highway, now 23 years later on the same engine.

It ain't 20%---But 2 more MPGs beats 0 MPGs any day!

Lastly

Maybe there's someone out there that might hook you onto the right combination of brass crap to make the 32/36 better???

I have noticed everybody wants to drill holes in the throttle plates and spend 3 months and 150 posts to

try to tune these evil "W"s -------I reckon that's better than 3 years with the help of kindergarteners.

Want the bucket carb and grab bag of goodies for postage?

I ain't never mailed nothing to Canada, except a request for a QSL card from Radio Canada International when I

was about 12 years old listening to RCI on my shortwave at night would put me to sleep.

How much you reckon shipping might be?

-----JEEPFELLER

 

I have a Holley 390 and a Offenhauser 4 barrel carb on my Spectacular rebuilt 28 year old 258 in Daily Driver Mr. Jeep!

Yeah, it cost a little, it would have been even way less if I had applied the 32/36 gold mine towards it.

Want the bucket carb and grab bag of goodies for postage?

I ain't never mailed nothing to Canada, except a request for a QSL card from Radio Canada International when I

was about 12 years old listening to RCI on my shortwave at night would put me to sleep.

How much you reckon shipping might be?

-----JEEPFELLER

Hey JEEPFELLER,

I would gladly take your bucket of 32/36 stuff if you're interested in shipping it. The only issue with shipping to Canada is the customs paperwork, which most people really dislike and I can't say I blame them. I do have a USA shipping address I use regularly, so then I handle the customs paperwork myself which I don't mind. Send me a message if you can do that kind of thing on here? I'm new, so I don't know yet.

I have a fascination with those Offy intakes and the small 4bbl carbs and would love to try that set up myself, but it's something that will have to wait as at this point it would be a want and not a need.

I changed the fuel filter yesterday and corrected the odd double fuel inlet lines to my carb. The carb was empty, as were the lines and fuel filter, so where that fuel is going I don't know yet. This Jeep needs ALL new fuel lines and hoses, etc, so I'm working on that currently before I get into deeper diagnosis. If the fuel disappearing is an inherent problem with the 32/36, then so be it...I won't burn too many calories trying to correct that. This old 258 actually runs pretty well and I'm happy with it so far, but it needs new plugs and wires and basic tune-up stuff for sure. The MPG is actually pretty good as far as I'm concerned. It is getting somewhere in the mid-teens. I only bought this thing a couple weeks ago, but I did drive it 800+ miles to get it home and it ran like a champ...at least until I got home and the clutch linkage fell apart lol. Installing a new kit today so that's fine.

There is oil all over the place, but I'm not going to condemn it until I fix all of the incorrect PCV and clean CCV plumbing. Oil pressure is very good, but I still need to do a compression test. More to come on that.

Thank you everybody for your replies and comments. It all helps give me direction on where and what to do.

PS: If you want to get rid of that bucket of stuff let me know.

 

I belive you owe us pics of this new jeep

Hoss

 

Hey Hoss, here is the old clunker in all her glory. It's in decent condition for being 40 years old, but it's not quite as nice as it looks in the pictures, at least not in my opinion. I'd like to decorate it a bit...I bought a set of the factory aluminum rocker trim pieces, and will maybe do some Renegade decals later on, we'll see. Right now, it's just too much black for me. I need the white letters turned out on the tires, and at the very least the decals for the raised Jeep lettering on the tub. I usually avoid black vehicles like the plague lol, but this one checked all of the other boxes for me. I wanted an '82-'86 with the 258 and a 5spd that was left relatively stock. My only regret is not waiting for one with a factory hard top and steel doors. This one came with only a Best Top soft top and doors.

 

Ok, some other tuning news...

After installing the new mechanical clutch linkage kit this morning, I went back under the hood to finish fixing up the plumbing. I moved the PCV valve to the front grommet and ran a new 3/8 hose to the manifold where the power brake booster connects if you have one (I don't). Moved the fresh air elbow to the valve cover rear port, and the hose is still connected to the bottom of the Weber air cleaner. Then connected the float bowl vent to the charcoal canister with a new hose. Doing all of this decreased the idle and made it run a little rough, so I went on to check timing and vacuum, etc.

Base timing is set to 11* BTDC. I didn't change it...just left it there. I checked the vacuum advance and it IS working, but the barb it is connected to at the base of the carb IS ported vacuum and not manifold vacuum. I connected my vacuum gauge and it was pulling 19" at idle. I played around with the idle mixture screw and idle set screw and got it to 20" with a pretty decent idle. It's much better than it was, but it's still not as smooth as I'd like it to be. I'll wait until I can get some new plugs, wires, and dist cap before I screw with it any further.

The PCV must be working as the valve cover is already starting to dry off...it was wet with oil since I bought the thing.

 

Really nice looking 7!

----JEEPFELLER

 

You could pull the cap and check contacts, to be sure they are clean at least, as replacing is about the same as cleaning if it is not cracked.

 

Very nice, and very clean!

Yeah, lower rocker molding and the jeep decals would go a long ways to adding a bit of pop.

Admittedly, I'm not a fan of installing package decals on non original Jeeps, but perhaps some striping or custom letters or graphics may work for you...

Hoss

 

I'm for doing what looks the best to you!

Or

To just show off!

I can't say "Who Cares?" but I'm sure somebody might

But as "J.G. Wentworth" might say---"It's my Jeep and I want it my way now!"

You aren't obligated to keep it original

And very few folks are gonna know the difference anyway!

It beats trashing it out and looking ugly!

Mine are not original by no means!

Many a female have gotten lured into mine, having a handsome CJ is like sporting some "Eye Cologne"!

JEEPFELLER

www.jeepforum.com

Anymore, anybody born after 2000 is gonna call it a wrangler, so what the heck!

----JEEPFELLER

 

I do like to keep things relatively original in appearance, and I always prefer factory original colors, even if they're updated...like a nice base/clear that matches what was originally a single stage. I'm not sure on the package decals yet, but there'd be few people around here that would even know the difference. I also want to fix the dash up and make it all original in appearance.

This old CJ has already been well modified...it has a YJ tub on it, and the whole engine is from a YJ, or at least the cylinder head and valve cover are. The VIN tag says it was slate blue and had a 4spd in it, and now it's black with a 5spd lol.

It needs some body work, and that's the one thing I haven't quite decided on what to do with it yet.

It is definitely getting a Painless wiring kit so I can gut all of the factory wiring that's currently doing nothing.

Hey, how would you guys recommend doing a compression test? Pull the coil wire off the distributor?