Do you mean the three 12pt bolts through the knuckle to the unit bearing?

I apply plenty of anti-seize to mine on the bolt threads, and shanks. LocTite would do it too, since it works anaerobically to harden and expand and would seal out rust from the threads.

Is that a vague enough answer?

General rules, in my garage, in the salt belt:
If it's something I don't want anti-seize flinging out of I use Blue LocTite.
If it's something that's prone to getting all rusted to hell I use anti-seize.
If it's something that may kill me if it loosens, then I use Red LocTite.

 

rule of thumb anti-seize is to help remove something easier next time you take it off...keeps parts from sticking together....IE spark plugs, wheel lugs,...Locktite is to make sure the part never loosens up without using break force torque to unscrew it. Break force just means if a bolt its torqued to 100 lbs then you would need 100+lbs of torque in the opposite direction remove the part. hope that helps

 

I put anti-seize and almost everything and loctite on almost nothing.
Sorry, not that great of a rule, but it's mine. (Okay maybe someone said it before me, maybe?)

One of the few spots I have locktite are the lugs holding my wheel spacers to the Jeep. This was per the instructions for the spacer install, I am guessing this is just to reduce the likelyhood of adding a failure point.
Funny thing is I put anti-seize on my lugnuts holding the wheels onto the spacers.

 

Dunno why you would put anti-seize on the lug nuts since you live in NV. It kinda screws with the torque specs when used on the lugs. Do you guys see alot of seized lug nuts out there? It's very common here in the rust belt.

 

use both i am an old off road motorcycle racer. using both compounds gives you the best of both worlds

 

Owning a Jeep you'll eventually learn what needs Ant-seize and lockt:2thumbsup:ite

 

hlariously, I understood every post, in a "unified theory" kind of way....except for the guy that uses both...you saying you can essentially mix the two and garner the best of both?

 

Any internal parts (engine trans t case) get lock tite if the manual says it or not. Pretty much everything on the outside gets never seize.

 

Any internal parts (engine trans t case) get lock tite if the manual says it or not.

Absolutely terrible advice.

 

Thumb rules:
- Oil/grease if specifically requested (FSM sez, for the crank nose screw, "dip in engine oil and torque to 80 pound-feet," for instance.)
- Thread sealant onall pipe joins (use the "Torque Angle" method, and friction is immaterial,) or if specifically requested (#11 cylinder head screw, for instance.)
- Never-seez gets used anywhere that is likely to stick - I don't use it on threads very often, but I do us it on shanks and shafts, taper studs, and the like (tie rod ends get it on the taper shank, for instance. I also often put it on the shank of the bearing assembly, where it goes into the bore in the knuckle.)
- Never-seez gets used on pressed assemblies - ball joint sleeves, Cardan joint caps, and like that.
- Never-seez is also used to "extend the capability" of tools. For instance, the stub shaft nut on the front axle out gets 185 pound-feet of torque. However, my biggest torque wrench only goes up to 150 pound-feet. Using never-seez reduces friction significantly between mating threads, so that means that the applied torque (turning force) can and should be reduced to achieve the same tensile preload (stretching stress.) Thumb rule is to reduce by half - using never-seez on the stub shaft nut means I only have to torque it to 92-93 pound-feet - which puts it well within the reach of my tools.

(Yes, this is correct. Yes, this works. I've been doing it this way for a number of years, without failures. I shall continue to do so until I hear otherwise from the manufacturer. The "torque reduction" information will be given below. Note that applied torque should be reduced by half if never-seez is used, for whatever reason.)

I referred to "torque angle" with pipe fittings - this means you tighten it to "finger-tight" (fingertip pressure,) and then give it a specific amount of turn ("flats past finger tight" - or "FPFT",) rather than an applied torque. This applies with or without sealant - but is better with. How far?

through 1/4" nominal: 1/6 to 1/4-turn. (1 FPFT)
Above 1/4" through 3/8": 1/4 to 1/3-turn (2FPFT)
Above 3/8" through 1/2": +/- 1/2-turn (3FPFT)
Above 1/2" through 1": 2/3-turn to 1 turn (4-6 FPFT)
Above 1": 1.5-2 turns (9-12FPFT)

Tighten to specified value, monitor through 1-2 days' service for leaks. Tighten in 1-flat (1/6-turn, or 60 degree) increments - torque on flat, re-evaluate.

If you have to nip it up twice or more, replace or recondition the fitting - something's wrong (threads are probably bruised, or the base material has been gouged.)

Torque modification values for applied lubricants (% of given "clean, dry" book value):
100% - LocTite
90% - Thread sealant (PTFE paste or tape, but not LocTite #545 Hydraulic Sealant)
80% - Engine Oil, chassis grease
50% - Anti-seize compound

My thumb rule is that a bolt doesn't go in dry, so that table has been tattooed on the inside of my left eyelid (just in case I need it...)

 

OP stated general rather than specific, therefore...

tl/dr.

I actually read the very last sentence for "thumb rule" and it STILL made no sense to me.

I got a torque wrench.

 

-
Torque modification values for applied lubricants (% of given "clean, dry" book value):
100% - LocTite
90% - Thread sealant (PTFE paste or tape, but not LocTite #545 Hydraulic Sealant)
80% - Engine Oil, chassis grease
50% - Anti-seize compound

My thumb rule is that a bolt doesn't go in dry, so that table has been tattooed on the inside of my left eyelid (just in case I need it...)

Wondering what your source is for the values? I can't believe locktite doesn't change the friction coefficient of thread interface?

 

I would like to know this as well. I have been through a few classes on the difference the oil, anti-seze, whatever makes (for my work) and never recall anything being a 50% difference.

If you don't want it to work loose from vibration, etc, put lock tite on the threads, if you don't want it to be stuck in there, put anti seze on it. I think the putting anti seze on the shaft is a great idea, since often that is the part of the bolt that will be rusted and stuck.

 

Blue Loctite is always good too keep on hand because it contains saccharine so it makes a good coffee sweetener if you happen to run out of sugar

 

Can you use Sweet-n-low, mixed into a paste, as a thread locker? Sure would be cheaper!:2thumbsup:

 

Always antisieze dissimilar metals. IE: steel bolt into aluminum, spark plugs into aluminum head, etc.

 

Yeah, that will get you in trouble very quickly using threaded inserts which are zinc plated steel into aluminum rims for beadlocks.

That one you use 271 or 272 on the hole in the rim and anti-seize on the bolts, unless you want to remove all the bolts 2 threads at a time at the same time to remove the lock ring.

 

Yes I have used both for years. On external parts only. It really works. Just a dab of both. i use the blue locktite on most things. I think they make special stuff now. on my old jeep i use it on shock bolts spring bolts, hubs things like that.

 

In aviation, anti-seize is used in high torque applications (main rotor hub nut aka the Jesus nut)...

And always on dissimilar metals. But we also have Tef-gel for that. Its a teflon gel that works better than any other anti-seize I've seen.

As far as loctite goes, its only there to preserve the torque of the hardware. Once that torque is broken, it loses its effectiveness. I've watched people gunk the stuff on bolts before and that is the worst way to do it. I was taught that 2-3 threads worth is more than enough. It wicks into the threads as you torque it.

 

Meh, the manufacturers literature contradicts armchair engineers all the time.

loctite doesn't list exactly the torque reduction from their products except to say that it does happen and is to be measured on an application by application basis. if the assembly manual doesn't call for a specific class of loctite and give a torque value, don't use it.
Antiseze is good for an 18-25% torque reduction over dry threads, a touch more than motor oil in most cases. It also depends upon the grade used.
If the torque is critical, follow the assembly Manual instructions exactly. Dry stays dry, loctite the appropriate color, oil where needed...etc.

Things like hub bolts, not the nuts, wheel studs, control arm bolts, etc...you can go to town with the antiseze and just drop the torque 20%.

Nothing on your Jeep requires pipe dope or ptfe tape. It's not automotive fluid or fuel safe. That's why we have o-ring fittings and tapered threads where required.

 

I don't recommend (nor do any mechanics I've spoken with recommend) either Loc-Tite or Never-Seize for the wheel lugs. :nono:

Everything else above I've heard at one time or another (except using both at the same time). My general rule has been: If specifically instructed to use one or the other, use Loc-Tite for fasteners subject to repeated vibrational stress, use Never-Seize for fasteners that are in really wet/salty areas and will not be removed for 3-5 years.

There are several (3.... I think) grades of Loc-Tite: Red, Blue & Orange? Middle grade is probably best for general use. The strongest grade may take heat to remove.

 

there are many different colors of loctite, all with their specific purposes. the standard bolt thread locking compounds are red(high), blue(medium), and purple(low).
red is to be removed with heat, blue and purple are break over torque style.

 

In aviation, anti-seize is used in high torque applications (main rotor hub nut aka the Jesus nut)...
.

fftopic:
In one of my dads many manuals for the mustang he works on the instructions for torquing down the prop nut is to "hang a 180 pound man on the end of a 5 foot long metal bar" :rofl:
Never heard of a mustang loosing its prop so I guess it works.
there's a bunch of stuff like that.
Love the one instruction in his british manuals for the spitfire in which they instruct you to tighten down some bolts on certain parts of the aircraft "a smidgen"
Don't ask.
ntopic:
We always use antiseize on spark plugs, forgetting to do so generally ends up with us breaking the plug which is never a good thing.
I have yet to hear of a screw or bolt that has walked itself out when antiseize was applied if it was torqued down properly and used where it is supposed to.
Just don't put it on lug nuts.

 

There's nothing wrong with using antiseize on lug nuts so long as you take into account the reduced friction means the ft-lbs. they are torqued to needs to be reduced by about 20%. That means if you normally torque your lug nuts to 100 ft-lbs., torque them to 80 ft-lbs. if you have applied antiseize to the wheel stud threads.

I have been applying antiseize to my wheel studs for many years and it cured their tendency to gall which was causing lug nuts to seize in place once in a while.

 

There's nothing wrong with using antiseize on lug nuts so long as you take into account the reduced friction means the ft-lbs. they are torqued to needs to be reduced by about 20%. That means if you normally torque your lug nuts to 100 ft-lbs., torque them to 80 ft-lbs. if you have applied antiseize to the wheel stud threads.

I have been applying antiseize to my wheel studs for many years and it cured their tendency to gall which was causing lug nuts to seize in place once in a while.

Concur. More even clamping force, easier to remove, and there's a torque wrench in the vehicle with the spider wrench and spare tyre.

Keep in mind that it's there, and you'll be fine. I also give very specific instruction to the tyre shop when I go in - no power tools (don't need them to take the wheels off, don't need the power to put them back on,) and modified torque values (hand-torque lugs to 50 pound-feet.)

(Yawp, the instructions involve threats. I catch power tools in use on my vehicle, the "tech" is going to be tied down with his air hose and beaten with his own buzzgun...)

 

There's nothing wrong with using antiseize on lug nuts so long as you take into account the reduced friction means the ft-lbs. they are torqued to needs to be reduced by about 20%. That means if you normally torque your lug nuts to 100 ft-lbs., torque them to 80 ft-lbs. if you have applied antiseize to the wheel stud threads.

I have been applying antiseize to my wheel studs for many years and it cured their tendency to gall which was causing lug nuts to seize in place once in a while.

Now that I think about it you are correct, thanks for clarifying.

 

There is some of the worst advice I have ever heard in my entire life, contained within this very thread.

 

I was going to point that finger and then decided I would let you go through and fix it all. Good luck, you're gonna need it.

 

so I'm guessing this is probably wrong somewhere. But I usually use anti-sieze on most every bolt that is on the exterior (underside) of the jeep and exposed to the outside. For instance, anything that bolts to the frame, or to the axle, or to the bumper. And if I can, I replace the nut with a locking nut (either nylon, or crushed)

For things that are on the inside of the jeep's tub (seatbelt bolts, seat bolts) I don't use anything. That is, unless the bolt came out and was never really able to get "finger loose", in which case I will clean the bolt (or replace it) and use anti-seize when it's replaced. But I do that on a bolt-by-bolt case.

If it's for the brakes, I just do what the instructions tell me to (if I remember correctly, it usually calls for brake grease for the calipers and such?)

I have not used anything on driveshaft bolts because their torque is so low.

I've never thought to use anti-seize on the lugnuts, I always just put them on dry (not for any reason though, just because that's always how I've done it on all my vehicles)

Is there anything out of line with how I'm doing things so far? After I install or remove and replace a part, I always check the torque a few weeks later.

 

so I'm guessing this is probably wrong somewhere. But I usually use anti-sieze on most every bolt that is on the exterior (underside) of the jeep and exposed to the outside. For instance, anything that bolts to the frame, or to the axle, or to the bumper. And if I can, I replace the nut with a locking nut (either nylon, or crushed)

For things that are on the inside of the jeep's tub (seatbelt bolts, seat bolts) I don't use anything. That is, unless the bolt came out and was never really able to get "finger loose", in which case I will clean the bolt (or replace it) and use anti-seize when it's replaced. But I do that on a bolt-by-bolt case.

If it's for the brakes, I just do what the instructions tell me to (if I remember correctly, it usually calls for brake grease for the calipers and such?)

I have not used anything on driveshaft bolts because their torque is so low.

I've never thought to use anti-seize on the lugnuts, I always just put them on dry (not for any reason though, just because that's always how I've done it on all my vehicles)

Is there anything out of line with how I'm doing things so far? After I install or remove and replace a part, I always check the torque a few weeks later.

There are too many variables to lay down hard and fast rules of what to use where. Take the rear seat bracket bolts for example. You could easily anti-sieze them or use threadlocker, but they extend through the body and the part that is exposed on the underside is what rusts and then sticks in the nut plate when you try to remove it.

Your small driveshaft bolts should have a threadlocker on them because they do have a smallish torque spec. They do from the factory and you should use something especially at the front CV. That is one place you should never use anti-seize.

Generally though, you're on the right track doing what the instructions tell you.

 

I was going to point that finger and then decided I would let you go through and fix it all. Good luck, you're gonna need it.

Lol! No thanks! I'll just let Darwin have his way...

The one I really cringed on was the guy who said he put loc-tite on all his engine internals. Got a good tq on those rod and main caps I'm sure.

 

I'll be honest, I've never taken a torque wrench to my lug nuts except on my dual tandem gooseneck trailer, where there is an actual spec printed right there on the oil caps. For the Jeep I've always just run them on in a star pattern until they "felt about right" ... Is there an actual factory (or otherwise recommended) spec to follow?

It's more important on a Jeep than most any light vehicle on the road IMO. If you are running steel wheels like soft 8s they will warp in the center big time if you over tighten. Over tightening can also suck any rim up unevenly enough to make a wheel turn unevenly and wobble.

Years ago I had a set of 15" soft 8s and some 35"s on them and the Jeep drove like crap. The tires were balanced perfectly and everything else was tight. A buddy recommended the I loosen and re torque the lugs after he saw me smash them up with the impact. Sure enough it worked like a charm. Jeep drove perfect afterward. I have done this to other peoples rig as well over the years always with good results.

 

im a huge fan of antisieze after cutting off all my old control arm bolts. i just replaced all my controll arms with savvy alluminum ones. took 3 nights of spare time and lots of cussing. the po never used antisieze and there were no greesable bolts installed either.

 

Dunno why you would put anti-seize on the lug nuts since you live in NV. It kinda screws with the torque specs when used on the lugs. Do you guys see alot of seized lug nuts out there? It's very common here in the rust belt.

Nope not much of a problem with rust out here at all. The way I see it, there are 20 lugs, I touch those things more than any other fastener on my jeep, just last weekend I had all my tires off/on twice. I just want to do what I think will reduce the chance of having to derail my day with messing with a stubborn bolt. Also, mostly because of my OCD and the fact that I have a tub of it just waiting to be used.

 

LOL I understand your concern but since you take em off that often, there's little or no worries of them seizing.

Not saying you gotta stop using it, but its likely pretty unnecessary. I take mine off once or twice every few months here in PA (salt belt) and never ran into any issues with lug nuts seizing.

But if it gives ya peace of mind, go ahead and keep it on.