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tcm glx NAXJA Member #1033 said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyN29 (NAXJA)
Okay, I finished the job. Incredible results. I will have a little write up coming soon. (if anyone even checks this thread anymore!)

The basics though:

The factory circuit is designed for 25 amps. The circuit can only handle 15-20 amps MAX without overloading (due to age, wire corrosion, etc)

The blower motor on MAX draws 16-19 amps, the compressor clutch draws another 6-8amps. This is running the circuit at more than 100% of capacity, hence hot wires, inconsistent performance, and blowing/melting fuses.

I have rewired and created a new, 40 amp circuit. Constant draw on circuit with everything on MAX is 20-25 amps, so the circuit is only at 50% capacity and corrects the problem.

Everything is verified on DC Ammeter +/- 3%
Write up plzzz, I still have issues with mine!
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=88091&page=2&highlight=blower+motor+relay
 
Has anyone found a fix other than this work around?
Ive been all over the net and have seen many many people with this same issue and some half claims of fixes but nothing definitive.

BTW, I did try the fix detailed in this thread and it didn't work for me...put it all back to the way it originally was and am going to look into it some more this weekend.

Any ideas would be welcomed.....
 
The blower motor has bushings not bearings. They wear out and the motor draws more current. That burns the resistor pack. The blower then only works on hi. Eventually it gets bad enough to blow the fuse. That problem is "solved" using a larger fuse, resulting in a melted switch and associated wiring. While the above write up is very nice and looks nice, the motor will eventually seize. Hopefully, only the magic smoke is released, as opposed to burning some really large wires which will result in notifying the local fire department with their possible involvement. The solution is to get a new motor, this one lasted for 20 years, hopefully you will get another 20 out of the replacement. I would refrain from getting a 20 year old "new" motor from a salvage yard. If you are really into it, you may be able to find suitable bearings and rebuild it.

Regards,

Jim W
 
The blower motor has bushings not bearings. They wear out and the motor draws more current. That burns the resistor pack. The blower then only works on hi. Eventually it gets bad enough to blow the fuse. That problem is "solved" using a larger fuse, resulting in a melted switch and associated wiring. While the above write up is very nice and looks nice, the motor will eventually seize. Hopefully, only the magic smoke is released, as opposed to burning some really large wires which will result in notifying the local fire department with their possible involvement. The solution is to get a new motor, this one lasted for 20 years, hopefully you will get another 20 out of the replacement. I would refrain from getting a 20 year old "new" motor from a salvage yard. If you are really into it, you may be able to find suitable bearings and rebuild it.

Regards,

Jim W
Nope...not correct.
I have already put in a brand new motor and resistor....still does the same thing as before...higher the fan speed the hotter the ignition wires get.
Looking at many threads on this very forum and all over the net others have also replaced the blower, the resistor, the switches and connectors and also still have the same problem.

If anybody has an actual solution or some helpful info please jump in...
 
Sorry I hadn't got back sooner...Ive been away for a couple of weeks.

Just wanted to update...I have fixed the problem.

Found the hint here:
www.automotiveforums.com/t737038-ignition_switch_red_wire_hot_with_blower_on.html

I looked under the steering column where the wire that was heating up is located and saw that someone had attempted to fix the wire where it goes into the connector.
They had spliced a wire to the original purple wire and replaced the terminal in the black connector.
I noticed their splice was burnt...charred black...but the wire running into it was fine.
With the engine running and the blower on high I could feel their splice connector was getting very very hot...but the wire before it was fine.
Long story short...I removed their splice, replaced it with a new, properly crimped connector...and now have a blower that works perfect on every speed with no heating wires at all.

Seeing this I believe there are 2 parts to this for anyone with this issue.
The problem starts with an old blower motor drawing too much power as Jim W. talked about earlier. When this happens the wire going to the ignition column (purple wire) starts heating up and burns the actual terminal and connector (black connector) under the column.
People change out the blower motor but don't realize the terminal has been compromised...the faulty terminal heats up because of the bad connection...remember....resistance equals heat.

Hope this helps someone in the future.
 
I have a 1994 sport, and had to replace the switch, but didn't see any other areas where wires were melted. Only problem I have is the original switch was melted beyond all recognition, and I have no idea what the color code is for the new switch. I followed a diagram that was given to me but the resistor coils get red hot. Is this normal or are did I create a new short by following the wrong diagram? I'm new to this vehicle, so any help will be appreciated! :confused:
 
A few weeks ago I changed my heater core, and accidentally broke the blower motor box drain thing so I swapped the whole box in from my donor jeep. (95 into my 94). The blower motor sounded a little squeally on startup, but the jeep's been sitting for years and the noises quickly went away and has been working fine until...

Two days ago I came out of work to find my blower, wipers, turn signals, rear defroster, cig lighter, and radio all not working. Blower motor fuse was a very melted 30A (from the previous owner, I didn't do that) and rear defroster fuse was intact but melty looking.

I'm guessing I have a lot of frustrating wire troubleshooting ahead of me this weekend, but this thread just gave me very valuable insight into the likely root cause of my problem (minimum-rated wire has aged along with the blower motor, oversized fuse in the fusebox). I also have a first place to look for more issues (the blower resistor), and a solution that would probably be very wise of me to implement to prevent this happening again.

Thank you.
 
Has anyone found a fix other than this work around?
Ive been all over the net and have seen many many people with this same issue and some half claims of fixes but nothing definitive.

BTW, I did try the fix detailed in this thread and it didn't work for me...put it all back to the way it originally was and am going to look into it some more this weekend.

Any ideas would be welcomed.....
I am thinking I am going to wire in a fuse and an on/off swtich : )
 
I have a 96 XJ Country and can't seem to find a "hot" wire but I do have only the Hi fan speed working and the rest not. So from what I'm reading is the solution to replace both the resistor and the fan motor, or just the resistor?
 
I have a 96 XJ Country and can't seem to find a "hot" wire but I do have only the Hi fan speed working and the rest not. So from what I'm reading is the solution to replace both the resistor and the fan motor, or just the resistor?
are you referring to the 4 wires out of the back of switch. I had the same question.. the power comes from the plug on the left. I had unplugged it when jamming my stereo back in.

the resister is what you are lookin
for puttin.

Tim
 
I replaced both the resistor and the blower itself, just as a failsafe. With mine, I found that the resistor was getting overheated (making it glow bright red) due to the blower trying to draw more power than it should on the lower settings. If you have only high, try removing one wire at a time on the back of the switch to find the "hot" wire. That was something I had to do after replacing everything because mine was melted beyond recognition.
 
Resolved this issue(s) today and would like to thank all that commented on this thread. Here is the schematic on the fan system:

Image


The fuse was still intact but badly corroded including inside the plastic body. The contact tabs had been cleaned in this photo but were corroded also.



The next issue was the switch associated with the Heat Mode Selector Switch. The connector tabs were corroded and the plastic body was distorted indicating high resistance and current at this point. This device was the core of the problems as the internal slide was burned to the point of not conducting. The electrical switch part of this assembly is only available as a complete assembly for about $200. I would hesitate buying an used one for all the current issues of this obviously under engineered system.

The switch can be opened and cleaned, which I did with a Dremel wire brush. Cleaned the grease with brake cleaner and used silicone grease to put it back together.



The next contacts on the schematic is the Blower Switch. The connector here also was severely distorted this time too much to save. I cut the connector off and soldered individual spade connectors to the wires and cleaned the switch contacts WELL before reassembly. I also disassembled the switch and cleaned the contacts internally.



The resistor unit did not appear to be heat distorted at all and the resistances were of such small values that were beyond the effective range of my HF VOM.

With that everything worked but I am not sure for how long. Jeep should be ashamed of the design of this system. What I did today would have involved about $400 in parts and that or more in labor.
 
Hi guys,
Maybe I missed something here but if all of this 'over heating' and melting stems from the blower drawing more power because of worn bushings...Why install relays and rewire all that? Isn't it much easier to just replace the blower motor?
Is it just a question of improving a marginal design? Saving some money? Or just to have fun with relays and the soldering iron?
 
Old thread but my take
Have spent two days going thru this and other threads.
This is what I did
Change blower motor and resistor, neither were bad. Pulled apart fuse box , 95 xj , driver side.
Fuse #5 had been hot so I pushed the connecors
back in the little bit for better fuse contact.
Purple wire and green source wire were fine however someone put a jumper in where there should be a breaker.
Figured out the wiring per diagram on my switch and vwalaw I have all speeds and we'll see how long it takes to burn things up.
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Image
 
Ok, guys, lets get a few misconceptions straightened out on this subject. I am a professional electrician, with many years of experience in the field, and some electronics experience, as well, so I do know what I'm talking about. To the original poster, great job with the repair, and the write-up! To all of those who have claimed things such as, "the original poster is just putting a band-aid on it", read on.

First, lets talk about how wires are rated for current. At the end of the day, the current rating of wire is not actually the maximum amount of CURRENT that the WIRE can safely carry, but the amount of HEAT that the INSULATION around the wire can safely handle. Wire has resistance. While it isn't a lot, it does have some. The larger the wire, the lower the resistance. As current flows through a resistor, heat is generated. For insulated wires, the current rating is related more to how much heat, which is generated by current flowing through the resistance naturally present in the wire, the insulation can handle before it starts to break down. Once the insulation starts to break down, you wind up with bare wires, which can short to other circuits, including ground, and cause a potentially HUGE current draw (think starting a fire levels of current). With that out of the way, on to the main subject at hand.

The base problem at the end of the day is as has already been mentioned: the factory wiring is borderline for the load applied to it. When the electrical system is initially engineered, they run all the numbers, and see that this circuit only pulls "x" amps, which can be safely carried by a wire of size "y". The issue with this is that wire size "y" will carry "x" amps, but only that; "x.7" amps is more than the wire is rated for. As they are trying to build things as cheaply as possible, so as to maximize their profit, they go ahead and put in that "y" size wire, instead of upgrading to "z" size like they should've. As long as everything is fresh and new, there are no issues. As has also already been mentioned, as the blower motor ages, it's current draw goes up. Now, that "y" size wire is overloaded, and started to heat up more than it should. This brings us to another weak point in the system: the connectors. As the wire heats up, some of that heat is transferred into the connectors. The excess heat in the connectors weakens the metal, more or less, which causes them to no longer "grip" as tightly as they used to. This also causes a higher resistance which, you guessed it, causes more heat. This "cycle" repeats over and over, making the problem a little worse each time, until catastrophic failure results. With this in mind, connectors that have been overheated should be replaced, to remove this high-resistance point, and the "male" side of these connectors should be cleaned of any melted plastic or discolored markings to ensure a good connection when everything else if repaired, or the problem will recurr. This same cycle is also what burns out the blower motor resistors, as they are also only able to take so much heat, which is again directly related to resistance and current draw. By upgrading the wiring, the problem of excess heat being generated by a borderline-sized wire is eliminated. Everyone who claimed that the OPs repair method could cause a fire, please note a very important part of his repair: he installed a properly sized fuse in the power feed of his new wiring. This way, if there is an issue, the fuse will blow, instead of melting down the wire. This is one of the biggest mistakes most people make when installing new wiring into a vehicle. They either don't fuse it, or they fuse it improperly. Remember, the fuse is not there to protect the device being powered, but rather, to protect the wire that is carrying the power to the device. If you have a wire that it capable of carrying 15 amps on a 20 amp fuse, you can, and probably will, melt the insulation and start a fire in an over current situation. The same wire on a 15 amp fuse, the fuse will blow before the current gets high enough to damage the insulation. An even better situation is to have a wire rated at 20 amps on a 15 amp fuse. In that situation, the wire's insulation will never get even close to a damaging temperature.

In summary, the OPs repair removes the borderline-sized factory wiring, removes the weak point of the connectors overheating due to borderline-sized wiring, and properly protects the wiring with a fuse, making it a safe repair. Hope this clears up a few things for some of you!
 
Ok, guys, lets get a few misconceptions straightened out on this subject. I am a professional electrician, with many years of experience in the field, and some electronics experience, as well, so I do know what I'm talking about. To the original poster, great job with the repair, and the write-up! To all of those who have claimed things such as, "the original poster is just putting a band-aid on it", read on.

First, lets talk about how wires are rated for current. At the end of the day, the current rating of wire is not actually the maximum amount of CURRENT that the WIRE can safely carry, but the amount of HEAT that the INSULATION around the wire can safely handle. Wire has resistance. While it isn't a lot, it does have some. The larger the wire, the lower the resistance. As current flows through a resistor, heat is generated. For insulated wires, the current rating is related more to how much heat, which is generated by current flowing through the resistance naturally present in the wire, the insulation can handle before it starts to break down. Once the insulation starts to break down, you wind up with bare wires, which can short to other circuits, including ground, and cause a potentially HUGE current draw (think starting a fire levels of current). With that out of the way, on to the main subject at hand.

The base problem at the end of the day is as has already been mentioned: the factory wiring is borderline for the load applied to it. When the electrical system is initially engineered, they run all the numbers, and see that this circuit only pulls "x" amps, which can be safely carried by a wire of size "y". The issue with this is that wire size "y" will carry "x" amps, but only that; "x.7" amps is more than the wire is rated for. As they are trying to build things as cheaply as possible, so as to maximize their profit, they go ahead and put in that "y" size wire, instead of upgrading to "z" size like they should've. As long as everything is fresh and new, there are no issues. As has also already been mentioned, as the blower motor ages, it's current draw goes up. Now, that "y" size wire is overloaded, and started to heat up more than it should. This brings us to another weak point in the system: the connectors. As the wire heats up, some of that heat is transferred into the connectors. The excess heat in the connectors weakens the metal, more or less, which causes them to no longer "grip" as tightly as they used to. This also causes a higher resistance which, you guessed it, causes more heat. This "cycle" repeats over and over, making the problem a little worse each time, until catastrophic failure results. With this in mind, connectors that have been overheated should be replaced, to remove this high-resistance point, and the "male" side of these connectors should be cleaned of any melted plastic or discolored markings to ensure a good connection when everything else if repaired, or the problem will recurr. This same cycle is also what burns out the blower motor resistors, as they are also only able to take so much heat, which is again directly related to resistance and current draw. By upgrading the wiring, the problem of excess heat being generated by a borderline-sized wire is eliminated. Everyone who claimed that the OPs repair method could cause a fire, please note a very important part of his repair: he installed a properly sized fuse in the power feed of his new wiring. This way, if there is an issue, the fuse will blow, instead of melting down the wire. This is one of the biggest mistakes most people make when installing new wiring into a vehicle. They either don't fuse it, or they fuse it improperly. Remember, the fuse is not there to protect the device being powered, but rather, to protect the wire that is carrying the power to the device. If you have a wire that it capable of carrying 15 amps on a 20 amp fuse, you can, and probably will, melt the insulation and start a fire in an over current situation. The same wire on a 15 amp fuse, the fuse will blow before the current gets high enough to damage the insulation. An even better situation is to have a wire rated at 20 amps on a 15 amp fuse. In that situation, the wire's insulation will never get even close to a damaging temperature.

In summary, the OPs repair removes the borderline-sized factory wiring, removes the weak point of the connectors overheating due to borderline-sized wiring, and properly protects the wiring with a fuse, making it a safe repair. Hope this clears up a few things for some of you!
Hi can you clarify which fix you were referring to exactly? The very first setup by the original op? Im experiencing this issue now and would really appreciate your advice as an expert electrician

a diagram of what to do would be very helpful
All the old photos are lost to time unfortunately
 
I wonder if this issue actually stems from the electrical contacts on the connectors oxidizing over time, and as a result, its the connectors that get hot and cause all the trouble. One poster said that he's found that people often find that replacing the blower motor doesn't fix the issue. This would point to the contacts at the resistor plug getting hot.

So maybe the solution to preventing a melted resistor plug is simply to clean the contacts at the resistor and apply some anti-oxidant?
 
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