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Do I need Ballast Resistor

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31K views 34 replies 13 participants last post by  greelyhill5  
#1 ·
I have a 1979 cj7 v8 304. I have upgraded to a larger MSD cap, rotor, and blaster 2 coil. Spark gap at .045. I also put 8.5mm MSD plug wires in. I am still using the ford duraspark ignition module. I bought the good one they had which I believe is the borg warner brand at O'reillys. I have also ran a dedicated ground to the black wire coming off the distributor.

A mechanic today was looking under the hood and asked why I had the ballast resistor in there and I said thats what the painless wiring diagram said I needed. He said in response that would be needed if it were stock but that I have upgraded the coil, cap and rotor. He explained to me that cranking with the resistor gives me the 12v needed but running that voltage is cut around half to about 6v. He went on to say that 12v is needed for the blaster 2 coil.

What do you guys think? Is he right or would this be bad for the ignition module if I removed the resistor.

- Matt
 

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#2 ·
i have the painless harness with the motorcraft ign system with an msd coil and team rush upgrade...been running it like this for about 3-4 months and it has been fine without the resistor
 
#4 ·
Doesn't the factory coil say "for use with external resistor" stamped on it? That leads me to believe the coil could fail with out it. If you have a coil designed for "no resistor", then I would think you are OK with out one.

I'm not 100% though!
 
#29 ·
That's an EASY ONE to answer!

Evloution.

They stared with a base distributor, and EVOLVED to have centrifugal advance, then vacuum advance,
When the breaker points were removed and electronic trigger installed, the switching transistors of the day couldn't handle the full 12 volt at full current load.

Now we have transistors that WILL handle full current switching load,
BUT,
When something is a 'Direct Factory Replacement' it has to be built to the specifications of the original part (Mostly to pass emissions, and be labeled as a 'Direct Replacement').

Now we have ignitions that will do MUCH BETTER than factory, but if they aren't 'CARB' approved, they can't be used in emissions states.
(Or at least can't be obvious when the 'Visual' inspection is done)

Remember, these are 28+ year old vehicles... And the government hasn't kept up with the times/improvements down through the years.

-------------------

Now, the cheapest 'Upgrade' for a module is the 'John Strenk Stealth HEI upgrade',
You simply pry the guts out of the existing module,
Use the case for a 'Heat Sink'
(High current switching creates a lot of heat, so you have to dissipate that heat to keep the module alive)...

The factory HEI distriubtor housing is made of aluminum, and a lot of it, so GM used the distributor housing as the 'Heat Sink',
While in the conversion, you need to supply a reasonable heat sink.
The factory case works pretty well and conceals the module switch at the same time.

You simply pry the guts out of the factory module,
Install the HEI replacment,
Hook the wires up from the factory circuit board to the new module,
And you are off to the races.

If you want to go the extra mile,
You can quite easily remove the resistor with your Painless harness,
On on factory harnesses, you can bypass the factory resistor wire with a fresh wire without a resistor.

That will give you full battery voltage to the coil and you are off to the races again with more spark energy at the plugs....
Providing you didn't use a crap coil, wires, cap, ect...

That's why I tell people to do the cap, rotor, plug wire conversion FIRST,
So you can CONTROL more spark energy,
Then worry about the module/coil, ect. that WILL produce more spark energy.

The extra spark energy doesn't do a thing for you if you can't control it and get it to the spark plugs!

---------------------

EVLOUTION of the distributor has come a long way...
Original 'Advance' was a lever, usually in the steering wheel, you adjusted as you drove.
The lever had linkage that MANUALLY turned the distributor for more or less advance.

Then someone came along with a spring and weight system to give automatic advance directly tied to the engine RPM,
No more advance lever in the steering wheel...

You know the rules,
If you give someone an adjustment, they WILL jack with it, and usually jack with it until something breaks...
By moving the advance to the distributor, and making it automatically tied to engine RPM,
The loose nut behind the steering wheel couldn't jack in too much advance and damage the engine.

Then someone figured out that VACUUM would compensate for engine LOAD,(and remember, engine design came a long way, early engines produced very little vacuum)

The harder an engine is loaded, the lower the vacuum, and the less advance it will tolerate.

The lighter an engine is loaded, the higher the vacuum, and the more advance it will tolerate.

Your ignition resistor is the same way.
In the early days, BREAKER POINTS ruled the world.
One thing about breaker points, you run a lot of current through them, they will erode and burn away,
And if you run too much current through them, they will weld together.

A resistor knocked back the current through the points, so the points lived much longer.

The resistor is a hold over from breaker points.
And not only did Ford do this, but Chrysler ignitions won't live very long without a resistor in the coil circuit, several other makes also.

The ONLY thing that GM did that was original with the HEI was using a type of switching transistor in it's module that would tolerate full battery voltage.
Every other part of that system is compromised, or is a compromise in some way or another.

SO, we swipe the HEI style module, the most swappable part of that system and use it to our advantage!

People laugh when I say if you swap in the cap, rotor, plug wires from the Ford Version of the electronic ignition,
Use a GM Style HEI module,
And grab an E-core coil from a later TFI ignition Ford,
You pretty much have the cutting edge components, CIRCA 1985!
But sadly, it's true...

The Jeep/Motorcraft is by far the best choice for a distributor,
Solid, Reliable, powerful signal, easily tuneable, parts everywhere,

Upgrade to the tall cap/rotor and some reasonable plug wires to get the spark energy to the plugs,

Get a Ford E-core coil which works best with the HEI style module.
Since the HEI was designed to work with an E-core coil,
And since the Ford version is the best of the factory E-core coils, this only makes sense...

Then get yourself a GM HEI style module,
Dirt Cheap, Reliable, Full 12 volt capable, and easily REMOTELY mountable,

Since coil doesn't care if you have a resistor or not,
And the GM style HEI module will handle full battery voltage/current,
and with the cap/rotor/plug wire upgrade you can CONTROL more spark energy,
You have an 'Off The Shelf' parts ignition that didn't cost you an arm and a leg,
You can get replacement parts in a junk yard if all else fails,
Will pass emissions 'Visual' inspection,
And is about twice as powerful as the factory Motorcraft/DuraSpark ignition,
And generally kicks butt as far as common '12 volt induction' ignitions go...

For those of you that DON'T remember, it was the mid 80's before you could go out on a really cold morning and not have to worry if the vehicle was going to start today or not...
Mostly because of ignition evolution and fuel injection.
 
#17 ·
Resistor on stock Duraspark is in the wiring. You need it. I would think that a Painless kit would already have it in there, so you wouldn't need to worry about it.
Don't remove it, though, and don't install an additional one.
 
#9 ·
If you have an upgraded coil you shouldn't need it. I took mine out when I did the TeamRush on my truck. I'm pretty sure that the blaster coils have an internal resistor. Your best bet would be talk to JeepHammer.
 
#10 ·
Duraspark needs a resistor...it can't stand a full 12v.

HEI, as some folks convert to, you have to take the resistor out...it wants the full 12v.

Your Duraspark module will be fried with 12v.

I was under the impression that the stock resistor was a resistor WIRE, though...not that old-timey firewall-mounted resistor like shown in that diagram.
 
#11 ·
Duraspark needs a resistor...it can't stand a full 12v.

HEI, as some folks convert to, you have to take the resistor out...it wants the full 12v.

Your Duraspark module will be fried with 12v.

I was under the impression that the stock resistor was a resistor WIRE, though...not that old-timey firewall-mounted resistor like shown in that diagram.
But if his new coil has an internal resistor he is just throwing another resistor in there. I wouldn't think the Ign module cares how many volts you are throwing at your coil.
 
#13 ·
From what I understand and from the diagram above that is how it should work. Your 12v going into the ICM is spliced in before the resistor so therefor it should have no effect on the ICM. Probably the easiest thing to do is to give MSD a call and see what they say about running a resistor. I tried looking, but everything I can find doesn't say whether the blaster coils have internal resistors or not.
 
#19 ·
That's what I am thinking. If the ICM has a resistor it is a separate one from the coil. The wiring diagram clearly shows the 12V coming into the ICM BEFORE the resistor to the coil. So the resistor would then have no affect what so ever on the ICM. The one wire that goes from the resistor to the ICM/starter relay is for a full 12V when cranking. I don't see anywhere in that diagram that says the ICM takes anything less than 12V. Maybe that's why I wear glasses?
 
#20 ·
77j20 you and I are seeing the same thing. Thats why I would like to here from someone else. The blaster 2 coil that I purchased is msd 8202. This model can be used in duraspark and msd 6a ignitions. So if it can handle a 6a box, then it is plenty capable of a continous 12v and should not overheat. Correct?
 
#22 ·
I wouldn't think you would need it. The MSD website states the only time you need to use a resistor with that coil is with the points system. You might try messaging JeepHammer he is very knowledgeable with these systems. But from everything I see there should be no need for the resistor. The blaster coil should be able to stand up to a full 12V with no problem.
 
#21 ·
It's not the coil that's the problem What do you think is switching power to that coil on/off? The Module.

It is basically "sucking" power through the module to the coil....the resistor keeps that "suckage" to safe levels.
 
#23 ·
It's not the coil that's the problem What do you think is switching power to that coil on/off? The Module.

It is basically "sucking" power through the module to the coil....the resistor keeps that "suckage" to safe levels.
Where on that diagram are you seeing this? I see a full 12V coming from the fuse block where it splits and sends a full 12V to the ICM and to the resistor. The resistor is only in the coil power wire. The only other wire comes from the Ignition side of the starter relay and comes in after the resistor which supplies a full 12V while cranking.
 
#31 ·
On the Duraspark System the Factory Resistance Wire is in the Harness , with a aftermarket harness with the Duraspark Coil you will FRY the coil with no Resistor afrtemarket coils may or may not need it , A HEI type ignition takes Full 12V. or they run like Cr@@ if at all .
I wouldn't say that.

There are HUNDREDS of guys that are quite content with an HEI clone that is hooked up to the factory resistor wire...

Dozens on this forum alone have it wired that way.

(mostly because they didn't know any better and the instructions, if there were instructions, didn't tell them to jump over or remove the factory resistor wire)

-------------------

The HEI module/coil really doesn't give a crap how much input voltage there is because of the type of switching transistors used in the module.

On the other hand, DuraSpark and Mopar ignitions used a type of transistor that HATED low voltage...
Get less than 10 volts to a Mopar or DuraSpark ignition module and you will find out very quickly that it doesn't want to start...

The ONLY complaint I have about the HEI style module (A good quality copy) is they need more heat sink than they came with...
That's an easy one to fix, so I don't complain much about it.
 
#28 ·
I have a 1979 cj7 v8 304. I have upgraded to a larger MSD cap, rotor, and blaster 2 coil. Spark gap at .045. I also put 8.5mm MSD plug wires in. I am still using the ford duraspark ignition module. I bought the good one they had which I believe is the borg warner brand at O'reillys. I have also ran a dedicated ground to the black wire coming off the distributor.

A mechanic today was looking under the hood and asked why I had the ballast resistor in there and I said thats what the painless wiring diagram said I needed. He said in response that would be needed if it were stock but that I have upgraded the coil, cap and rotor. He explained to me that cranking with the resistor gives me the 12v needed but running that voltage is cut around half to about 6v. He went on to say that 12v is needed for the blaster 2 coil.

What do you guys think? Is he right or would this be bad for the ignition module if I removed the resistor.

- Matt
He's wrong.

The resistor is to save THE MODULE, not the coil.


The coil works fine from about 4 to 12 volts, or even up to 600 volts if you have a CDI module (which you don't, this is for explanation)...

The resistor chokes down CURRENT through the module.
Too much current through the module will destroy the switching transistors in the module.

A 1.35 Ohm MINIMUM in line resistor is REQUIRED to keep the MODULE ALIVE.

--------------

Some of us use a module that can handle a full 12 volts, the John Strenk Stelth HEI conversion.
It uses a GM style HEI module in the place of your factory module,
And can even be hidden in the old DuraSpark case if you live in a smog testing state like CA.

If they can't SEE the conversion, you won't get failed for it, and the HEI module will usually run cleaner at idle since you are getting more spark energy from the ignition to light the fire and consume the fuel.

With an HEI style module you CAN use a direct feed of 12 volts to the coil with no issues, but the DuraSpark module wasn't designed that way.
 
#32 ·
JeepHammer, I am doing the Team Rush upgrade per your instructions with a MSD 8414 Cap/Rotor/Base and MSD Wires. I needed a new coil anyway and bought the MSD Blaster II High Vibration coil. The instructions from MSD state I need a .8 ohm resistor if installing in to a stock points style ignition system. Where did 1.35 ohm resistor come from? This is not a breaker point type system, why do I need the resistor? Trying to get this all straight in my mind. Thanks.
 
#30 ·
Umm jeephammer, these are 4 year old posts on a hijacked thread....