Winching is dangerous, period. Do what you can to make it safer, large clevis on large welded tabs are better than hooks, but anything can and will break.

Edit to add: I was always taught to raise the hood to keep from breaking the windshield when the cable breaks. Says a lot that there are enough failures that this became SOP for many folks.

 

I personally do not trust a hook for a heavy pull. I use hooks for pulling straps if anything. On any winch pull, the fact is, something going bad on a light pull is just as likely to kill you as that of a heavy pull, at least for me, thats why its important to practice overkill. As far as the hood thing, There is a video on the internet somewhere that made me a believer when the cable and hook came through both windows of his truck, the look on his face was trully memorable.

 

I have used my hooks to do such a thing and I recommend against it.

Why would you need to do a double line pull with a 12k winch?

 

Theoretically if the steel is strong enough it would be fine because it's bolted to the frame. And if it wouldn't slip off. This is really up to you. If I felt comfortable with it I would probably do it. Depends on my gut at that point.

Don't bother getting anything added to the stock front bumper. It's not worth it. Use the money to build or buy a better one with welded through clevis mounts aligned with the frame.

X2 on the hood.

 

personally, i would do it, if you need to double line pull.
but, i would never use a steel which line. ever.

 

Thank You

Thank you all for your comments.

 

I haven't seen anyone mention a winch line damper.
Throw a heavy blanket, welding jacket, etc. over a wire line, several if you have them. Takes some of the surprise out a line break.

 

By a double winch line pull, you mean cable out to a snatch block on a tree (lets say) and back to the jeep...

1. If this is what you are describing, you don't gain anything other than twice the line out and a slow winching... This set up gains no mechanical advantage (based on pulley use). This is only a change of direction. BUT...you do gain a small amount of advantage cause there is less line on the drum and the winch cable only need to travel a smaller diameter of the drum, thuse making it easier for the winch to rotate against a force...

2. To gain TRUE machanical advantage the pulley block must be in motion... If the jeep was fixed in position and you were winching a log to to, then you have mechanical advantage of 2:1 and splitting the load thus making the winch work substantially less.. (or if you were stuck and another jeep winched you out with a block connected to your jeep)

EDIT: You can stop here as the rest is arguements , due to a conceptual oversite on my part, and that we often where argueing, although agreeing due to different conceptual examples... my viedo that prove...absolutley nothing have been removed!

 

By a double winch line pull, you mean cable out to a snatch block on a tree (lets say) and back to the jeep...

1. If this is what you are describing, you don't gain anything other than twice the line out and a slow winching... This set up gains no mechanical advantage (based on pulley use). This is only a change of direction. BUT...you do gain a small amount of advantage cause there is less line on the drum and the winch cable only need to travel a smaller diameter of the drum, thuse making it easier for the winch to rotate against a force...

2. To gain TRUE machanical advantage the pulley block must be in motion... If the jeep was fixed in position and you were winching a log to to, then you have mechanical advantage of 2:1 and splitting the load thus making the winch work substantially less.. (or if you were stuck and another jeep winched you out with a block connected to your jeep)

Explain 1 to me again? Cable from Jeep to snatch block, then back to Jeep would provide more pull than a cable straight to a winch point. The fact that the pulley doesn't move from the winch point wouldn't make a difference. The slow winching is a direct result of the added torque advantage you gain from a double line pull. Half the speed, twice the pull.

Change of direction would be cable to pulley then to say another Jeep.

 

doubling the winch line thru a block doubles the pulling power, to suggest otherwise is dangerous.

 

Actually that is incorrect as a double line pull from vehicle to snatch block back to vehicle effectively doubles your pull.

Edit: you bet me to it

 

 

At 19 sec in.. Clearly states, single pulley is no mechanical advantage.

 

Single pulley isn't a mechanical advantage if the cable is not attached back to the Jeep.

From Warn
http://www.gowarn.com/warn-winches/winch-tips.aspx

Cable to pulley (attached to anchor point) then back to the Jeep IS a mechanical advantage.

Edit: I think the misunderstanding is that with a single snatch block, there are in fact 2 pulleys. The winch itself is acting as one.

 

Single pulley isn't a mechanical advantage if the cable is not attached back to the Jeep.

From Warn
http://www.gowarn.com/warn-winches/winch-tips.aspx

Cable to pulley (attached to anchor point) then back to the Jeep IS a mechanical advantage.

Edit: I think the misunderstanding is that with a single snatch block, there are in fact 2 pulleys. The winch itself is acting as one.

NOPE. the winch isn't a pulley but the power force

Yes a mechanical advantage in that you are making it easier for the winch in the simplest form.... but you do not gain a 2:1 advantage ie you are not making an 8000# winch only pull 4000#....

Its a hard concept to grasp...best thing to do is grab a rope and set it up in the various forms and do it by hand and you'll see what is and isn't a true mechanical advantage

 

stuck are you when you need 16K pulling power. This thread is getting ridicul

 

stuck are you when you need 16K pulling power. This thread is getting ridicul

THAT IS TRUE:thumbsup:

 

stuck are you when you need 16K pulling power. This thread is getting ridicul

Lous

 

Sorry, beer and spelling. I will quit for now. Cheers!!!!!

 

So Warn is wrong? This proven winch technique doesn't work?

I understand the less layers on the drum thing you are taking about. But there is simply an advantage to adding a pulley in a winch pull.

If im standing on a platform with a rope attached to the ceiling, through a pulley, and back to the platform, I will have more of an advantage than pulling straight to the ceiling.

 

So Warn is wrong? This proven winch technique doesn't work?

I understand the less layers on the drum thing you are taking about. But there is simply an advantage to adding a pulley in a winch pull.

If im standing on a platform with a rope attached to the ceiling, through a pulley, and back to the platform, I will have more of an advantage than pulling straight to the ceiling.

If trying to pull the ceiling down and it is movable yes.

BUT if you put a pulley on the ceiling , that is tied to a 100# block next to you, and you pull to lift the block you must pull 100#. you gained nothing. in fact you need to pull 102# to make up for friction of the pulley.

did you watch the youtube vid at 19seconds?

 

Don't overthink it and listen to the guy that makes his living with cables and pullies.

If you take your cable and attach it to a tree, hit the winch button and pull, that is single line pull.

Wrap that cable around a pulley on that same tree and run it back to the bumper, you have doubled the line length, but distance is same. Hit winch button and you have doubled your line pull while halving your vehicle speed.

The winch is rated with one layer of cable on drum (on your 8,000 lb winch this is where you get it, as you add more layers, your pull poundage drops) this has nothing to do with how many pulleys the line goes through.

 

Winch-pulley-something else = no mechanical advantage. Pulley just changes pull direction

Winch-pulley-back to Jeep = mechanical advantage. Pulley doubles pull and halves line speed. It's literally right there on Warn's site and I've witnessed it in action.

Winch acts as a pulley it's just attached and it's powered. The winch is the pulley that moves in this setup. Technically 2 pulleys in a double line pull.

Not arguing about your knowledge at all. Just I know this works.

Edit: The platform i was talking about is lifting me. Sorry for any confusion.

 

Winch-pulley-something else = no mechanical advantage. Pulley just changes pull direction

Winch-pulley-back to Jeep = mechanical advantage. Pulley doubles pull and halves line speed. It's literally right there on Warn's site and I've witnessed it in action.

Winch acts as a pulley it's just attached and it's powered. The winch is the pulley that moves in this setup. Technically 2 pulleys in a double line pull.

Not arguing about your knowledge at all. Just I know this works.

Edit: The platform i was talking about is lifting me. Sorry for any confusion.

From a physic forum...
You are standing on a plate attached to a pulley, The rope through the pulley is attached to the ceiling with one end and you pull on the other end. Can you lift the plate and yourself?
That said, in order to lift yourself this way, you would have to be able to lift your weight plus the weight of the platform."

So if you weight 175, you need to pull 175.

http://www.the-office.com/summerlift/pulleybasics.htm.

you said "Not arguing about your knowledge at all. Just I know this works."

YES I agree it works. just not in the manner that most people think.... mathmatically and for reasons stated already regarding winch pull rating and drum wraps....

Good night

 

By running a winch line through a pulley (attached to a stationary object) and back to the jeep there is a mechanical advantage. It essentially gears down the winch because as the winch pulls one foot of cable in, the jeep will only be pulled six inches. This is a 2:1 advantage for the winch. However, this advantage is based on the winch capability determined by how much line is out.

Your example with the platform only has one pulley. You have to remember that the winch is a pulley so you have a two pulley system. Old4X is dead on.

How did this thread get so far off topic?
I would not feel comfortable winching off of a hook. Go with tabs and a clevis.

 

By running a winch line through a pulley (attached to a stationary object) and back to the jeep there is a mechanical advantage. It essentially gears down the winch because as the winch pulls one foot of cable in, the jeep will only be pulled six inches. This is a 2:1 advantage for the winch. However, this advantage is based on the winch capability determined by how much line is out.

Your example with the platform only has one pulley. You have to remember that the winch is a pulley so you have a two pulley system. Old4X is dead on.

How did this thread get so far off topic?
I would not feel comfortable winching off of a hook. Go with tabs and a clevis.

You gain the SAME advantage if you hook to a further anchor point... If the tree is 40 feet away and you run a pulley back to your jeep, is the SAME as winching from an anchor 80 feet away... For the reason in bold above!.

 

At 2:04 of the video it shows how a single pulley can double the force input. Silly cartoon but works to how it all works.
Also stop talking about how the winch works and confusing it with how a pulley works. No matter if the winch is able to pull 1000 or 120000, the correct pulley placement will almost double that or more if you use more pulleys. Look at just about ALL come alongs, they have a pulley at the cable end. It helps to multiply the force you put into it. Lift a 1500 pound engine block with it single line and its VERY hard to crank it. Do it with the pulley and you can do it nearly one handed..

Maximizing the winch would be to get out as much line as possible to decrease the diameter of the drum.

 

At 2:04 of the video it shows how a single pulley can double the force input. Silly cartoon but works to how it all works.
Also stop talking about how the winch works and confusing it with how a pulley works. No matter if the winch is able to pull 1000 or 120000, the correct pulley placement will almost double that or more if you use more pulleys. Look at just about ALL come alongs, they have a pulley at the cable end. It helps to multiply the force you put into it. Lift a 1500 pound engine block with it single line and its VERY hard to crank it. Do it with the pulley and you can do it nearly one handed..

Maximizing the winch would be to get out as much line as possible to decrease the diameter of the drum.

They Key to that point (2:04) is a MOVEABLE pulley. A pulley on a tree is NOT a moveable pulley. described at 1:47. a fixed pulley

An example of a moveable pulley is another jeep winching you out, with the pulley on your bumper....

 

I have used a hook on both Jeeps for a double line pull. As long as the hook is properlly attached I do not see a problem with it.
The only problem I did have is it can tend to slip off of the hook.
A clevis mount would be my first choice though.

 

I want someone to admit that they are wrong! I don't care who it is!

 

lol I gave up on this thread. it really got wayyy off topic. Im going with what Warn and numerous other sites are saying about the double line pull. ive seen this technique in real life and it works.

to the OP, id be leary about attaching to the tow hooks. It really comes down to how comfortable you are with the setup. hook everything up, look it over, and err on the side of safety. proceed with caution.

 

Good one G30, I LMFAO!

 

So you're telling me the winch know where you've hook the line. and that is reduces the speed because you added a pulley.

The winch speed is constant, whether the tree is 40 feet away and you run a pulley back to your jeep, or from an anchor 80 feet away...

It's slower to move the jeep with a pulley because the cable is travelling twice as far as it would on a straight line pull. The cable moves the same speed, but the Jeep only moves half as fast because the cable is travelling twice the distance.

 

watch the videos i posted...