You may need to pull the cam sensor and inspect the tone ring for damage.

 

PM willy digger and fog with those pics...probly not your problem but they will love to see your pics and info.

 

Yup, you've got the classic striated wear pattern on both the OPDA gear and the cam gear.

 

I'd fix those crushed wires.

Symptoms of a P0016 will or may include:

Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) illumination
The engine may run but with reduced performance
The engine may crank but not start
The engine may exhibit a rattle near the harmonic balancer indicating the tone ring is damaged
The engine may start and run, but poorly

Causes may include:

Timing chain stretched, or timing belt skipped a tooth due to wear
Misalignment of timing belt/chain
Tone ring on crankshaft slipped/broken
Tone ring on camshaft slipped/broken
Bad crank sensor
Bad cam sensor
Damaged wiring to crank/cam sensor
Timing belt/chain tensioner damaged

Possible Solutions
First, visually inspect the cam and crank sensors and their harnesses for damage. If you notice broken/frayed wires, repair and recheck.
If you have access to a scope, check the cam and crank patterns. If a pattern is missing, suspect a bad sensor or a slipping tone ring. Remove the cam gear and the crankshaft harmonic balancer and inspect the tone rings for proper alignment and make sure they're not loose or damaged or that they haven't sheared the key that aligns them. If they are properly installed, replace the sensor.
If the signal appears normal, then check the timing chain/belt for proper alignment. If it's misaligned, check for a damaged tensioner that may have allowed the chain/belt to slip a tooth or several teeth. Also check that the belt/chain isn't stretched. Repair and recheck.
Other crank sensor codes include P0017, P0018, P0019, P0335, P0336, P0337, P0338, P0339, P0385, P0386, P0387, P0388, and P0389.

 

Thanks boogieman. I think im going to start with replacin the cam sensor. Its the only thing i see that would have caused this from one second to the next. Im pretty sure it has to be something that happened during the mml. Im guessing the whole OPDA is more of a gradual thing. And since my OPDA gear isnt really worn im hoping its not that. Are my thoughts on the right track here guys? Or am i missing something?

 

KONG,
Have you figured anything out yet? I recently did a bl and mml and got the same code you are getting but I don't whats causing my yet.

 

Nothing yet. i ordered my cam position sensor it should be here in a couple of days. If that doesn't fix it im back at square one and open to suggestions. does yours cut out at about 3200 rpm too?

 

No, I have not noticed it cutting out at 3,200 rpms. I have not noticed any difference at all in anything.

 

you might want to check for any damage during the mml anywhere. but being that you have an 06 and it could also be a OPDA issue its hard to know for sure. So basically im just as lost as you are

 

I have a 2005 LJ with the 6spd. It has right around 71,000 miles on it and I had the P0016 code hit me on Fridayl
Replaced the cam shaft sensor first 23.99 Autozone
That fixed the problem until I pushed in the clutch and put it in first gear than the code came back.
Replaced the crankshaft sensor I got it from Autozone for 19.99 plus they give a 10% military discount.

I drove it around the block and no codes. We will see what happens in the Morning.

I checked the gears first but since my oil pressure is reading normal I thought it was one of the sensor.

Have a good one,
Larry

 

Thanks for the heads up. ill check into the crank sensor if the cam sensor doesn't solve anything. What i don't understand is what about the mml caused the code? and why does it seem like its only 05 06 motors

 

It looks like the camshaft sensor. The MML won't cause any problems unless you damaged something and it looks like the pinched wires on the camshaft sensor. I think you're on the right track. While the OPDA has the classic 2005-06 symptoms (and should be corrected in the near term) I don't think it looks bad enough to cause problems. Could you have possibly hit the housing of the OPDA and turned it a little? I can't see how you would have done that, but somehow the wires got pinched.

 

I'm more worried about my P0344 code and the OPDA and my oil pressure is fine too. Still you should check the gear

 

When my OPDA gear went, I think it threw the P0016 code but it too would cut out at ~3k. I believe this is the limp mode. I ended up taking mine in under warranty and ended up with a new OPDA, cam, lifters, oil pump, etc. It was really bad. I'll check my paperwork when I get home and say for sure if mine was the P0016.

 

I check out my paperwork and I did have the P0016 when it went into limp mode and I took it to the dealer under warranty. Ended up with the following being replaced:

Camshaft
Overhaul Gasket Set (Upper Kit)
Front Cover Gasket
Front Cover Crank Seal
Oil Pan Gasket (1-Piece)
Oil pump
Oil Pump Gasket
Oil Pick-up
Timing Chain
TAPPETs, Valves
DISTRIBTR OIL PUMP
Valve Cover Gasket

I couldn't see the pictures at work but your OPDA doesn't seem too bad and the cam gear doesn't look torn up so it may just be a synch issue. Just passing along my experience with the P0016.

 

By the sounds of your problem it sounds like your gear was worn pretty badly. So i think you're right about it being a sync issue. Im just puzzled as to why. The only thing that changed was the mml

 

Thanks for the help guys. So i replaced the cam position sensor today and the check engine light turned back on. Willydigger, im not sure how to check my timing using the top dead center method. when i pulled the OPDA i used a sharpie to mark the ring, the housing and the block. when i put it back in it took some effort but everything lined up perfectly and seated properly. but like you said it could have been moved since the beginning. Know anywhere with a clear explination of what i should do? do you really think it could be a timing issue given by the condition my OPDA gear and cam gear were in? what from the mml would have caused this?

 

The engine light came back on. Did it act normally otherwise? You may need to clear the code.

If it didn't act normally, there are instructions in the OPDA failure thread on the first page. I've never done the TDC, but I've seen it done. You'll need a socket and ratchet to fit the bolt head on the timing wheel in the front of the engine. You turn the wheel with the ratchet in the direction it would normally turn while running.

Before you start get the OPDA close by bumping the engine. Start it for a second to move the OPDA so the alignment pins are close. Otherwise it may be very difficult to turn the timing wheel with the ratchet. It will be hard anyway, but this will help tremendously.

If you don't feel comfortable doing it and you think it could have moved (any score marks on the hold down flange on the OPDA, placement compared to images on the failure thread) then loosen it and turn it a hair CW. Just turn it a little since the computer will adjust. If it's still running poorly try CCW. I really can't see it moving very much. The hold down clamp has to be tight so the housing doesn't spin.

Provided you don't get good results past that OPDA sensor, start looking at the list of alternate issues.

I've attached the instructions for the TDC below for ease.

Oil Pump Drive and CMP Sensor
Notes
4.0L CMP Location

The Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP) on the 4.0L 6-cylinder engine (2) is bolted to the side of the oil pump drive shaft housing assembly (5).
NOTE: Do not attempt to rotate the oil pump drive assembly to modify ignition timing.
Two different procedures are used for removal and installation. The first procedure will detail removal and installation of the sensor only. The second procedure will detail removal and installation of the sensor and oil pump drive shaft assembly. The second procedure is to be used if the engine has been disassembled.

REMOVAL
If the CMP and oil pump drive are to be removed and installed, do not allow engine crankshaft or camshaft to rotate. CMP sensor relationship will be lost.
4.0L CMP Location

Remove two plastic cover screws (7) and remove plastic cover (6).
4.0L CMP Removal/Installation

Note and mark rotational position of target wheel (4) in relationship to housing (5).
Disconnect CMP electrical jumper harness (3) at engine wiring harness.
Before proceeding to next step, mark and note rotational position of oil pump drive housing (5) in relationship to engine block. After installation, the CMP sensor should face the 4 o'clock position as viewed from right side of engine.
Remove hold-down bolt (4) and clamp.
Pull assembly from engine.
Remove and discard old oil pump drive-to-engine block gasket.
INSTALLATION
Clean oil pump drive mounting hole area of engine block.
Install new oil pump drive-to-engine block gasket.
4.0L CMP Factory Alignment Pin

If installing a new oil pump drive assembly, it is supplied with a temporary alignment pin (2) to prevent the target wheel from rotating. Do not remove this pin until oil pump drive assembly (1) has been installed.
4.0L CMP Target Wheel Alignment

If installing/returning a used oil pump drive assembly back to the engine, temporarily install a small screwdriver (1) or similar tool through target wheel access hole (2) and then through mating hole in housing (3).
Install oil pump drive into engine while aligning into slot on oil pump. Rotate oil pump drive housing back to its original 4 o'clock position as viewed from right side of engine. Install hold-down clamp and bolt. Tighten bolt.
If engine crankshaft or camshaft has been rotated, such as during engine tear-down, CMP sensor relationship must be reestablished.
Remove ignition coil rail assembly. Refer to Ignition Coil Removal/Installation.
Remove cylinder number 1 spark plug.
Hold a finger over the open spark plug hole. Rotate engine at vibration dampener bolt until compression (pressure) is felt.
Align Timing Marks - 4.0L Engine

Slowly continue to rotate engine. Do this until timing index mark (1) on vibration damper pulley aligns with top dead center (TDC) mark (0 degree ) on timing degree scale. Always rotate engine in direction of normal rotation. Do not rotate engine backward to align timing marks.
Install oil pump drive into engine while aligning into slot on oil pump. If pump drive will not drop down flush to engine block, the oil pump slot is not aligned. Remove oil pump drive and align slot in oil pump to shaft at bottom of drive. Install into engine. Rotate oil pump drive housing back to its original 4 o'clock position as viewed from right side of engine. Install hold-down clamp and bolt.
Remove small screwdriver, or, factory alignment pin from housing and install plastic cover (two screws).
Install CMP sensor to oil pump drive.
Install sensor mounting bolt and tighten to 2 N.m (15 in. lbs.) torque.
Connect CMP electrical connector to engine wiring harness.
If removed, install spark plug and ignition coil rail.
Connect DRB scan tool to data link connector. The data link connector is located in passenger compartment, below steering column.
Gain access to "CAM/CRANK RELEARN" screen on DRB scan tool.

 

Also just out of curiosity, how did you life the motor for the MML? Were you close to any of the sensors? Does anything look out of place?

 

Thanks a lot for the help. i disconnected the battery while i changed the sensor and connected it back on. It started up perfect with no hesitation and idled fine. If the check engine light wasn't on i wouldn't think there was anything wrong with it. I didn't drive it because the check engine light turned back on while it was idling so i just left it where it was parked. But before it would drive fine but would cut out around 3200 rpms. I'm sure if i drove it it would probably drive the same.

Im going to chase down your idea about me having moved the housing somehow while i was doing the mml. But by the looks of it it is at about the 4 o'clock position like its supposed to be. But ill see how everything is when i get it at TDC. If that doesnt fix the problem im guessing i have to do what it says at the end there and "CAM/CRANK RELEARN"? Is this something that i have to do at the dealer? Or can anyone with a scan tool do it?

I lifted the engine by placing a block of wood across the flange on the oil pan because the block of wood was too big to fit in between the tranny skid and the oil pan so i couldn't get it on the bell housing. I cant think of anything that could have been damaged but i wouldnt mind changing the crank sesor just for peace of mind

 

2006 Jeep 4.0L

Well I have been reading all your posts here on the P0016 Issue. I have a customers jeep in the shop and had to order a create motor for it cause the OPDA worm gear froze up and killed the motor beyoud rebuild. Now I asked around if there was a way to place to get oversized pistons and rings and to my surprise they do not even carry them in aftermarket that I could find. So that spins everyone up to where and why the engine change.

Engine is placed and the NEW OPDA in place at TDC Still got the P0016 after operating to temp 168. So roughly 10-15 minutes. I figured well since this is Chrysler and I have had MANY Chrysler products do this to me Might as well change out the Crankshaft Sensor and clear code and all will be good. NOPE! did not go away. So I am at square one again scratching my head . On this 06 4.0L Jeep I am not able to gain control for the Cam/Crank Relearn so is this a dealership area?

More food for thought on the NEW style 4.0L if your OPDA locks up at highway speeds more then likely you will be replacing the engine also.

 

Well I have been reading all your posts here on the P0016 Issue. I have a customers jeep in the shop and had to order a create motor for it cause the OPDA worm gear froze up and killed the motor beyoud rebuild. Now I asked around if there was a way to place to get oversized pistons and rings and to my surprise they do not even carry them in aftermarket that I could find. So that spins everyone up to where and why the engine change.

Engine is placed and the NEW OPDA in place at TDC Still got the P0016 after operating to temp 168. So roughly 10-15 minutes. I figured well since this is Chrysler and I have had MANY Chrysler products do this to me Might as well change out the Crankshaft Sensor and clear code and all will be good. NOPE! did not go away. So I am at square one again scratching my head . On this 06 4.0L Jeep I am not able to gain control for the Cam/Crank Relearn so is this a dealership area?

More food for thought on the NEW style 4.0L if your OPDA locks up at highway speeds more then likely you will be replacing the engine also.

Not sure about the Cam/Crank relearn being a dealership only. Willydigger mentioned something about accessing it with a scan tool. Im guessing there should be a function. I still haven't had a chance to check the timing, i will probably be doing that this weekend and then go from there. Ive never heard of a OPDA gear freezing up, did your customer have the P0016 code before? Or did it just show up after replacing the engine? Do you know if the gear was worn before it froze or was it just demolished and you couldn't tell?

 

Wow that's some crazy stuff. I guess that's why they say the 4.0 is bulletproof. Until chrysler messed with it for 05 06. well my motor isn't at that stage yet but I'm waiting just like everyone else for a permanent fix. As soon as I get this code fixed ill look into all the mods to the OPDA or see what skinny pedal makes for us

 

Update on mine:
I replaced both the cam and crank sensors,
My oil pressure is normal,
All the wires appear to be in good shape.
Now the P0016 code only comes on after it hits operating temp (about 10-15 minutes)

The guy at the parts store said my timing chain is worn. I have 71k miles on it. Before I tear it apart anyone have a guess?
Thanks,
Larry

 

Just curious, wheres your oil pressure at? I don't remember where mine was at before the problem but now mine goes up to about halfway between the half dot and the 3/4 dot. maybe even a little more when accelerating. Then it comes down a bit once its warmed up. After replacing the cam sensor it starts easier than it did before. But i still have the CEL. I haven't looked much more into it since im not driving it as much.

 

Mines stays between 1/2 and 3/4 never goes below 1/2.

 

Yeah same here. Today it actually didn't move up much from 1/2 . I just wanted to make sure since i don't remember how it was before this problem. Seems like this is a tricky code to figure out

 

Here are a couple links that may be helpful. I wouldn't worry about oil pressure. That only comes into play if the OPDA (oil pump) gear fails. That is seen in willydigger's fine post at http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/2005-06-jeep-opda_cps_distributor-failure-1144202/ post #3. Yours haven't failed or you would have no oil press.

There is info about getting & resetting codes at http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/c...g-install-new-cam-2005-2006-owners-should-read-963235/index51.html#post10133134 . This has to do with setting the OPDA "timing" position.

The TDC method willy describes should get you really close. You may have to remove the serpintine belt to see the marks & they are probably different than shown in willy's previous post (from the FSM). Mine only has a single pointer on the engine & a small hard to see notch on the damper.

Once you get close, it only takes very small adjustments to get it within tolerance (+/- a few degrees). I think that only DRB III scanners (dealer's) read the actual degree settings to "zero" it in.

This is assuming that the OPDA has moved. If so, I would think you could see marks on the housing from the hold down bracket since they are normally very tight from the factory.

 

Once you get close, it only takes very small adjustments to get it within tolerance (+/- a few degrees). I think that only DRB III scanners (dealer's) read the actual degree settings to "zero" it in.

Correct - The DRBIII will show you the actual "live" cam/crank difference in degrees as well as the "learned" position. This can be useful because is allows to to see how much the "live" position has grown from the "learned" position, assuming the unit hasn't been moved or removed. If the "growth" is excessive, it's kind of a clue to wear on the OPDA gear and the mating gear on the cam.

FYI - just sneeze near the housing with the bolt lightly snug and it seems like it will move several tenths of a degree. It takes very little movement to be off several full degrees. No matter how careful you mark things, you will be off several degrees at minimum upon reinstallation.

 

Thanks for the links. Ill definitely be looking into this more. Ill be changing oils to if not for protection then for some piece of mind

 

Regarding the oil pressure readings, I saw a posting on here that the 05/6 and maybe more that the gauge is not much more than an idiot light in that once the sending unit senses anything over 5psi it reads 1/2 regardless

 

True - it's just an idiot light with a needle. The switch closes at 5psi and the gauge is moved to the middle-ish. I actually think this design started around 2003 or so.

 

I just realized i never updated this thread, so i ended up replacing both the crank and cam pos sensors but neither helped. So i followed thefog's explanation of rotating the OPDA housing to get it within the required range to where the computer could compensate. Finally through trial and error i got it within range and the CEL never came back.

Thanks to willydigger and the fog for all your work with this issue

 

Great news. After all that it must have been a great feeling finally getting it resolved.

Yes, that is great news. More importantly, thanks for the update. Seems like so often a guy fixes his problem then never lets us know what the fix turned out to be. I have seen a few P0016 codes after MML but this is the first one with a resolution report.

Hey Willy, what about posts 24 & 26 here & all the guys we see that want to ignore the OPDA issue? Should we direct them here or is ignorance truly bliss?

 

Great news. After all that it must have been a great feeling finally getting it resolved.

 

Oh yeah it felt great. I should have known to go there first after seeing the pinched wires. They were a clear sign that i smacked them and moved the housing. But instead i now have two spare sensors. I know somene else posted here that they had the same problem and hopefully they can try what solved mine too