Any of you had any experience with these in the 4.0? I'm looking at upgrading the spark delivery system with new distributor cap and rotor, bigger wires, 43k coil, and new plugs. Since plugs are fairly cheap, I want to go high quality and a lot of people like the E3, some don't. Will the E3 help or hurt performance, and what plugs would be a better option?
Silvestris
Everybody I've always talked to around here always likes the Champion truck plugs... Which reminds me, I can't remember the last time mine were changed...
Personally, I wouldn't spend the $$$ for E3 spark plugs as there is no performance benefit over any other spark plug (despite the hype).
For your '98, since you apparently want the longer life of an upgraded plug which is about 90-100K miles, I would simply go with a good quality single-tipped platinum plug like the Autolite AP985 or Champion 3034... no need (whatsoever) for the more expensive double-platinum tipped plug like the AP985 from Autolite or Champion's 7034.
Paying more for a double-tipped platinum like the APP985 or Champion 7034 would return zero benefit (really) due to your 98 TJ's use of a distributor. Having a distributor means your engine's spark only erodes one side of the gap so platinum only needs to be on that side of the gap so there's no need for or benefit to installing a plug with platinum on both sides of the gap. Really. Newer 4.0L engines without the distributor erode both sides of the gap so they require the more expensive double-tipped version of platinum plugs when platinum plugs are desired.
For spark plug wiring, you definitely want to avoid any so-called "low resistance" ignition wiring. While that term, "low resistance" certainly sounds good to the layman, understand that the higher resistance found in the OE wiring is added on purpose at greater cost. It is actually cheaper to go with a low resistance ignition wire so it's not like the low resistance wiring they are pushing is somehow better... it is not, the low resistance claim is simply marketing hype which sounds good to those who don't understand that the low vs. high resistance in the wiring is not what it appears to be.
The resistance is added to the wiring to prevent spark noise (static) from affecting the engine computer and making it hard to listen to your AM or CB radios. And the resistance added, due to an electronic law known as Ohm's Law, does not appreciably reduce the voltage at the spark plugs. The voltage isn't really significantly reduced through the high resistance of the OE wiring (again, added on purpose to eliminate spark noise) because the current passing through the wiring is extremely low... in the micro-amperes.
Personally, I would replace what's in there with more OE ignition wiring. It is better quality than 99% of the junk sold in the auto parts stores, will hold together longer, and won't cause static noise or problems with the computer. And the engine will run every bit as good with another OE ignition wiring set, really, as the so-called low-resistance "performance" ignition wiring. It may cost a little more than what you can buy from your local auto parts store but trust me, it's worth it. There is SOME wiring found at the auto parts stores that is equal to the quality of the OE wiring but it's not going to be low-resistance and it's going to be damned hard to find.
Make sure too to try to find a quality rotor and distributor cap with brass contacts. Aluminum contacts are cheap and don't hold up nearly as long.
Good luck with it.
For your '98, since you apparently want the longer life of an upgraded plug which is about 90-100K miles, I would simply go with a good quality single-tipped platinum plug like the Autolite AP985 or Champion 3034... no need (whatsoever) for the more expensive double-platinum tipped plug like the AP985 from Autolite or Champion's 7034.
Paying more for a double-tipped platinum like the APP985 or Champion 7034 would return zero benefit (really) due to your 98 TJ's use of a distributor. Having a distributor means your engine's spark only erodes one side of the gap so platinum only needs to be on that side of the gap so there's no need for or benefit to installing a plug with platinum on both sides of the gap. Really. Newer 4.0L engines without the distributor erode both sides of the gap so they require the more expensive double-tipped version of platinum plugs when platinum plugs are desired.
For spark plug wiring, you definitely want to avoid any so-called "low resistance" ignition wiring. While that term, "low resistance" certainly sounds good to the layman, understand that the higher resistance found in the OE wiring is added on purpose at greater cost. It is actually cheaper to go with a low resistance ignition wire so it's not like the low resistance wiring they are pushing is somehow better... it is not, the low resistance claim is simply marketing hype which sounds good to those who don't understand that the low vs. high resistance in the wiring is not what it appears to be.
The resistance is added to the wiring to prevent spark noise (static) from affecting the engine computer and making it hard to listen to your AM or CB radios. And the resistance added, due to an electronic law known as Ohm's Law, does not appreciably reduce the voltage at the spark plugs. The voltage isn't really significantly reduced through the high resistance of the OE wiring (again, added on purpose to eliminate spark noise) because the current passing through the wiring is extremely low... in the micro-amperes.
Personally, I would replace what's in there with more OE ignition wiring. It is better quality than 99% of the junk sold in the auto parts stores, will hold together longer, and won't cause static noise or problems with the computer. And the engine will run every bit as good with another OE ignition wiring set, really, as the so-called low-resistance "performance" ignition wiring. It may cost a little more than what you can buy from your local auto parts store but trust me, it's worth it. There is SOME wiring found at the auto parts stores that is equal to the quality of the OE wiring but it's not going to be low-resistance and it's going to be damned hard to find.
Make sure too to try to find a quality rotor and distributor cap with brass contacts. Aluminum contacts are cheap and don't hold up nearly as long.
Good luck with it.
So electrical power flows differently in the newer ignition systems than the older style? BS!Personally, I wouldn't spend the $$$ for E3 spark plugs as there is no performance benefit over any other spark plug (despite the hype).
Paying more for a double-tipped platinum like the APP985 or Champion 7034 would return zero benefit (really) due to your 98 TJ's use of a distributor. Having a distributor means your engine's spark only erodes one side of the gap so platinum only needs to be on that side of the gap so there's no need for or benefit to installing a plug with platinum on both sides of the gap. Really. Newer 4.0L engines without the distributor erode both sides of the gap so they require the more expensive double-tipped version of platinum plugs when platinum plugs are desired.
E3 plugs are the best you can buy from everyone i've talked to that bought them. Nieghbor tried them and he said he gained ALOT of gas mileage. I seen a test in a late model corrvette and they made a huge differeance over a standard plug in power and fuel mileage. Next time i tune up E3's are going in all my stuff.
Jerrys opinion on sparks plugs is old school.
Jerrys opinion on sparks plugs is old school.
It may be old school but if anyone believes installing something like the E3 is going to improve mileage over any other good quality spark plug that is installed, I have a bridge for you to buy.
The ONLY time any spark plug can improve fuel economy is if it is replacing a worn out spark plug. And the same with performance... install an E3 and the correct model conventional or platinum plug into the same type of engine and you're not going to feel any difference in performance. The E3 and platinum plugs will outlast a conventional plug but during their respective lives, performance will be the same.
There is SO much hype about spark plugs that it's hard to sort through the BS but most of the hype can be safely ignored. That's just the marketing departments at work.
I've seen all this info posted up about spark plugs and not to use this or that before on this site, Honestly its complete BS. Buy the best plug you can afford, If you think SOLID companies waste millions of dollars to "HYPE" you should just use what you have ALWAYS used.
I'll be the one passing you as you are filling up and on the hills. LOL
I'll be the one passing you as you are filling up and on the hills. LOL
I bought some before I knew better and had one fouled out around 20,000.
Replaced with APP985.
Replaced with APP985.
Interesting that all the "good reviews" for E3s I found are from sales sites. Checked the Corvette forum, Nissan forum, Dodge Caliber forum and a couple others and none had good reviews. One site even had a person reporting lower mpg with them and many with fouling problems.
I will not be getting them anytime soon but each to their own.
I will not be getting them anytime soon but each to their own.
I tried the E3 plugs on my 2.5. I knew they wouldn't do anything noticable, but they have such pretty ads.
After a week of highway driving, the number 2 plug melted. May not be because of the plug, but the Champions I replaced them with have been running well for the past 4 months. I just figured it was a quality control issue.
My Jeep hated them, but my lawn mower loves them. I haven't noticed it cutting the grass any faster. I just love pretty ads!
After a week of highway driving, the number 2 plug melted. May not be because of the plug, but the Champions I replaced them with have been running well for the past 4 months. I just figured it was a quality control issue.
My Jeep hated them, but my lawn mower loves them. I haven't noticed it cutting the grass any faster. I just love pretty ads!
Let's also point out that there are certain people out there that are just dying to correct The Forum Powers That Be at any opportunity, no matter how silly they might sound when doing so. I'm not sure what has a worse rep on this board...E3 plugs, Bosch +4's, or the people that insist one or the other works wondrously better in Jeeps when we have a thousand threads on the subject and countless members that know better.
With that said, +4's work wondrously better in another of my vehicles.
The best performance/mileage gains I saw from changing my plugs came from the fact that the old plugs were replaced with new ones, thus bringing the engine back up to spec.
With that said, +4's work wondrously better in another of my vehicles.
The best performance/mileage gains I saw from changing my plugs came from the fact that the old plugs were replaced with new ones, thus bringing the engine back up to spec.
Yup I had the MSD already from my 69 Firebird that is on blocks, so the ignition is the least of its requirements. So I put it in. And, I must add, proceeded to burn through a Advanced auto coil wire. So I went to get a new set of wires. The person at the parts store brought me the same brand of wires I had just burned up. So I asked if they had a set of the Accel universal 8.8mm high performance wires. Get this he said, "They don't make those for the jeep." I said "UM they are universal!" He said, "yeah they don't make those for your jeep." So I went to Summit Racing and ordered a custom set of Taylor high performance wires made for the jeep 4.0 for half the cost of the Accel's 8.8mm wires form the local parts store.
But Yes the MSD is great but it is pricey. And like Jerry said it does more for a larger older engine.
But Yes the MSD is great but it is pricey. And like Jerry said it does more for a larger older engine.
I dont know why people buy those e3's. Probably because they like to go to walmart and ask the attendant whom know's jack all and they tell them its a "top of the line" product. Their made in china for crying out loud.
My family owns a small engine shop and when ever a piece of equipment comes in with one of those plugs,we remove and throw in the trash.
Their usaully not running and have a no spark failure(fouled,melted electrodes,cracked insulator,even had one where the electrode cracked,broke off and caused catastrophic failure). So to surpass this problem we tell customers to not buy cheap chinese plugs and stick to what the machine was born with. ie: champion,ngk,bosch etc.
DO NOT buy into the stupid ads provoking better fuel mileage and more power.
My family owns a small engine shop and when ever a piece of equipment comes in with one of those plugs,we remove and throw in the trash.
Their usaully not running and have a no spark failure(fouled,melted electrodes,cracked insulator,even had one where the electrode cracked,broke off and caused catastrophic failure). So to surpass this problem we tell customers to not buy cheap chinese plugs and stick to what the machine was born with. ie: champion,ngk,bosch etc.
DO NOT buy into the stupid ads provoking better fuel mileage and more power.
I have had the E3 plugs in my work vehicle for 26000 miles now, and here are my observations:
1) The DON'T improve fuel mileage. *Not a surprise there*
2) They cost way too much. *I think I paid almost $7 each for them*
3) My mechanic, whom I have great trust in, warned me to only purchase them if there was a "specific application" of plug for my engine. Since there was, I decided to try them. The wires and boots were all changed at the same time.
The vehicle is a 2006 Chevy Express Van with a 6.0L and 4L80E transmission. It is used for FedEx Ground delivery and gets approx. 5000 miles every 3 weeks. Mileage is 11-12, never varies much unless the wind is blowing hard.
My .02 :wave:
1) The DON'T improve fuel mileage. *Not a surprise there*
2) They cost way too much. *I think I paid almost $7 each for them*
3) My mechanic, whom I have great trust in, warned me to only purchase them if there was a "specific application" of plug for my engine. Since there was, I decided to try them. The wires and boots were all changed at the same time.
The vehicle is a 2006 Chevy Express Van with a 6.0L and 4L80E transmission. It is used for FedEx Ground delivery and gets approx. 5000 miles every 3 weeks. Mileage is 11-12, never varies much unless the wind is blowing hard.
My .02 :wave:
At the rate Nonya gets these 2-3 mpg increases from each mod like from nothing more than fancy spark plugs and mufflers, Detroit is going to be beating down his door to learn his secrets. He must be up to 30 mpg by now. What's next, a magnetic fuel atomizer he'll claim gave another 2-3 mpg?
This is right from NGK!
When we (NGK) tested these(E3's) plugs they found them to be comparable in performance to one of our conventional J-gap nickel plugs, e.g. BKR5ES which is for the most part all of a $1.99 spark plug, nothing fancy.
So while they weren't found to be terrible or anything they also weren't any better than a standard $2 plug. So switching to a fine wire electrode plug like a platinum or iridium would definitely outperform it and may still be less expensive than the E-3. Just my 2 cents
>So as you can see i was actually lying to you.......you guys gotta get up earlier! LMAO
ps: I am using the bosch plugs in all my stuff AND using the +2's in the car did help ALOT. I'm not bsing...didn't do nuttin fer the CHEEP.
My fav plog is the NGK iridium, it is the best you can buy...anyone tells you otherwise they are full of crap!
ps i'm usin the bosch plugs cause i get um fer free...LOL
Who's yer daddy?
When we (NGK) tested these(E3's) plugs they found them to be comparable in performance to one of our conventional J-gap nickel plugs, e.g. BKR5ES which is for the most part all of a $1.99 spark plug, nothing fancy.
So while they weren't found to be terrible or anything they also weren't any better than a standard $2 plug. So switching to a fine wire electrode plug like a platinum or iridium would definitely outperform it and may still be less expensive than the E-3. Just my 2 cents
>So as you can see i was actually lying to you.......you guys gotta get up earlier! LMAO
ps: I am using the bosch plugs in all my stuff AND using the +2's in the car did help ALOT. I'm not bsing...didn't do nuttin fer the CHEEP.
My fav plog is the NGK iridium, it is the best you can buy...anyone tells you otherwise they are full of crap!
ps i'm usin the bosch plugs cause i get um fer free...LOL
Who's yer daddy?
I've bought E3 spark plugs before I joined JF and have not noticed any improvement. Damn you guys at Power Block!! I'll be replacing them with the APP985s after reading what people had to say about E3s cracking/melting with only a few miles on them.
By the way Nonya...How were your plugs before you replaced them with the E3s? Was your engine running on 2 cylinders or something? :rofl:
By the way Nonya...How were your plugs before you replaced them with the E3s? Was your engine running on 2 cylinders or something? :rofl:
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