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Towing

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2.6K views 26 replies 6 participants last post by  ColdCase  
#1 ·
How much can a 2023 Jeep Grand cherokee altitude tow without hurting engine? I have a I have a tow prep group b on my jeep.
 
#3 ·
Keep in mind that the towing part is only 1/3rd of what's important. The other two critical factors are the balance of the trailer (tongue weight) and trailer brake capacity. No matter what anyone says you need trailer brakes on any trailer that weighs over 1500 lbs if you want to be able to stop safely. And your tougue weight in general should be 10% of your trailer weight, and if it is a trailer that you will load up the load should be mostly in front of the axle, not way at the back of the trailer.
I have towed a 5,000 lb load on a '07 WK 5.7 Hemi rated for 7200 lbs and it tows very easily. But trailer brakes are a must, I have 12" brakes on this trailer rated to stop 6,000 lbs.
 
#4 ·
Your owners manual should contain several pages on towing and the Jeep's rating.

The engine and transmission handles the specified rating (6200 pounds) just fine if its equipped with the factory tow package like you have. But watch transmission and engine coolant temperatures. Towing heavy with a V6 may take some patience, but it will do the job. You also must use a weight distribution hitch when towing anything over 3500 pounds.

The GC has a short wheel base, IRS, unibody type structure. Towing a long tall trailer that acts like a big sail must be done with attention to detail, especially if there is no sway control. Installing stiffer XL rated tires will also reduce sway.

Keep in mind that the JC payload rating is lower than you may expect.

Also I want to repeat how important trailer brakes and controller are for your safety.

Let us know what you are thinking about towing, there may be additional tips. For less than 3000 pounds, it probably wont make much of a difference unless its a sail, just pay attention to the details.

Base on my experience with a V8 WK2 towing about 7000 pounds in an 18foot long tall trailer:

Trailer brakes
WDH (set up properly)
Sway control (often built into the WDH)
XL rated tires
Don't pack the Jeep full
Set up the trailer's CG properly, perhaps 200 pounds max on the hitch ball
Practice towing

With a V8, I don't notice the trailer unless looking in the mirror or when passing a 18 wheeler. I hear the V6 doen't have as much power and you will notice anything heavy, especially when passing. If you are not in a hurry, stay off the interstates and take your time.
 
#5 ·
My vehicle came with the tow prep group B package Beckley’s installed all the additional items for electric brakes and I have the blue ox hitch system with the sway bars. Some sites have ben scaring me to death that doing this with my vehicle is a hazard. I checked with dealer when I bought it and told them what I was doing and Beckley’s when we got the camper. No one seemed concerned.
 
#6 ·
There are plenty of folks on the interweb that don't know what they don't know. Its not going to tow like a long wheelbase special purpose towing machine, but it does well. Lots of folks here tow campers, some very large.

Which brand/model camper are you towing?
 
#9 ·
The 1810BH looks like a 22 foot trailer that pushes 6000 pounds when fully loaded with fluids and packed.

Mechanically there would be no issue. There are quite a few that use a WK2 to tow many miles with that kind of trailer. It should be no big deal for your use case.

Just be attentive on the interstates when there are cross winds or when passing trucks as the Jeep will have a tendency to want to switch lanes on you.

I don't know how much trailer towing you've done, but you may want to practice a bit before loading it up. If you are a novice, many RV dealers and RV clubs offer training and can help with specific recommendations. That would be my only concern, but that would apply to any tow vehicle.
 
#10 ·
Thank you so much i was freaking out that we got this and it is unsafe to tow. . We don't plan to carry any fluids when towing. We will fill up at the site and off load before leave. I have the blue ox they put on with the sway bars. The thing is crazy looking but it looks like it means business.
 
#13 ·
A couple tips and comments from other threads:

"The 8 speed transmission adjusts automatically to trailer loads. But if you find it hunting gears, use ERS (manual mode). The paddle shifters, if you have them, are convenient for this."

"The GC has quite a short wheelbase but with a Weigh distributing hitch and mechanical anti-sway bars they can be a great towing vehicle even for larger trailers."

"Taller trailers act like a big sail and are more tiring to pull than shorter ones. Regardless you can always slow down or take the back roads to compensate. If you are not doing cross country interstates, then hitch type sway control is less helpful. The Jeep does have sway control built in, but thats reactive. The trailer has to start swaying before it will step in."

"Everyone has their own comfort levels regarding towing. Last year we bought an 18' travel trailer (21' including the tongue, about 5k lbs. loaded), and towed it with our 2015 Limited 5.7 using a WDH with sway control. I would say the experience was okay. I felt like I really had to stay on top of things, especially if there was any wind. The trips were kind of stressful for me. We ended up buying a half-ton pickup to tow with, and that has worked out better for us. It is not the weight so much as the frontal and side area, coupled with the short wheelbase of the GC."
 
#14 ·
I pulled a similar trailer (4358 lbs dry weight) in 2022 with the V6. Trailer was about 4900 lbs fully loaded. It performed well on the flat lands, but struggled a bit in the mountains. I've since upgraded to the 5.7L hemi and it is fine through the mountains. If you're only straying an hour from home without any great hill climbing, you should be fine. I don't know if you have the V6 or the V8, but your biggest challenge will be tongue weight.

The manufacturer doesn't include batteries or propane. You will find that your 595 lbs listed for your trailer will jump up quickly. Add 120 lbs for two batteries and another 20 lbs for propane and you are now at 735 lbs. If you've got the V6, the maximum is 620 lbs, so you'll be way over. If you have a V8, the maximum is 720 lbs and with some strategic packing, you can get down to this number. However, you won't be able to store much in your front pass thru storage area. Once you're fully loaded, you might want to measure your actual tongue weight to make sure you're not over (or under). I had to load some heavier items at the back of the trailer to get my tongue weight down to the 620 lbs when I had the V6. You will want to keep your tongue weight between 10% and 15% of your loaded trailer weight. I would suggest getting a tongue weight scale to check your actual tongue weight before you head out. I use the Sherline.

The other consideration is payload. Unless Jeep has modified their practice, your posted payload is 1050 lbs. This is a generic number that Jeep puts on all their Grand Cherokees. If you believe this number, then you won't be able to pack anything into your Jeep. Assuming two occupants at a total of 350 lbs and a maximum tongue weight of 620 lbs, you only have 80 lbs left for gear in the Jeep.
There is much discussion on other forums about why Jeep posts these generic payload numbers on all JGC's. If you want your real number, you will need to fill it up with fuel and take it to a weigh scale to find out what your actual curb weight is. Your Jeep GVWR subtract your curb weight will give you your actual payload. You will probably find that it's closer to 1500 lbs, which is more reasonable.

Two Facebook groups worth joining to get a lot of good information from fellow campers:
1. RV's without trucks
2. SUV, RVing, Towing, Experiences, Questions, Tips
Have fun and happy camping!
 
#15 ·
Unless there have been recent changes, the payload is specific to a VIN and stamped on the load label in the door jam.

When you do the GVWR math as you would do with a truck, it won't match the stamped number as Jeep derates the payload. Has to do with stability and sway control, not axle rating. But payload and tongue load are imprortant limits to consider.

Instead of FB, I suggest going to a RV specific forum for better more complete advice.
 
#17 ·
Jeep uses a generic number for payload on all their Grand Cherokees. It has to do with stability and sway control to pass the moose test. Jeep used to use the calculated value for payload until 2012 when they failed the moose test. Ever since then, they use the generic number of 1050 lbs that it took to pass the test.

There are several RV specific forums out there, but most of them are truck drivers and don't look favourably on towing with SUV's. The FB forums are specific to RVers without trucks and can offer support and experience for towing with an SUV.
 
#18 ·
The payload in the spec sheet for each model is generic, the vehicle rating is specific to the VIN.

Since 2011, a Laredo will have a different specified rated payload than a Limited or a Summit, and there are different payloads for engines and options. The 4WD Limited V8 seems to have the highest payload rating. The specs (see the spec section) will provide the generic for each varriation, but it has been reported often here that the rating on the door jam is different than the generic spec. It was suggested the OEM tire load ratings are factored into the door jam, but thats not been proven consistent. There are also dozens of spring part numbers, each with different stiffness.

The trailer tow weight ratings are generic possibly because how much you can pull is related to cooling capacity, not chassis capability and stability.

Generally FB is a social outlet, good for getting ideas of places to go but you don't get good technical advice. The participation of those that know is limited. Most of the members there don't know what they don't know technically.
 
#19 ·
I've been able to find press kit information for Jeep payload as far back as 2012 and it has varied between 1590 lbs and 1840 lbs, depending on the model. The payload information made mathematical sense based on GVWR and curb weight, which they also published. Published values were similar for the years 2012 and 2013 with only minor variations and still made sense mathematically.

Published values changed in 2014 and varied between 1050 lbs and 1320 lbs depending on the model and no longer added up based on GVWR and curb weight. The numbers jumped around a bit up until 2018 when the press kit information was no longer available but the lowest value was 1160 lbs for the Summit and 1410 lbs for the Limited. They still didn't add up based on GVWR and curb weight.

I've only owned a 2019 V6 and a 2020 V8 and the sticker on the door jamb said 1050 lbs payload for both. Different model with different engine and options, but the same payload. I believe this is now standard for all Grand Cherokees. It may have changed with the new WL generation. I believe this practice began after the Grand Cherokee failed the moose test in 2012. The test was redone in 2014 with what I believe was the heaviest Grand Cherokee they could find at 5356 lbs and they loaded 1145 lbs of what Jeep told them the maximum payload the Grand Cherokee could handle at the time. (I don't know how they came up with this number, but maybe they did their own moose test to see how much weight it could handle without tipping over.) The total vehicle weight was 6501 lbs and it passed the Swedish moose test in 2014.

Since then, Jeep has used this payload (1145 lbs) or a variation of it (1050 lbs) on all their Grand Cherokees. The provincial authority in Alberta, recognizes the GVWR and GCVWR (which Jeep doesn't publish for Grand Cherokees for some reason) as the certified weights and have to be followed. Payload is only mentioned with respect to GVWR and curb weight. Long story short, I believe the payload number posted on the door jamb is a generic number and the true number for any particular Grand Cherokee can only be found by weighing the vehicle at a CAT scale and subtracting this number from the official GVWR, which is the way Jeep did it before the moose test. Now, if you have to avoid a moose at 71 km/hr with more than 1050 payload, then it might be a challenge. But I suspect if you're towing a trailer and you encounter a moose, even zero payload won't help you.

Of course FB is a social outlet, but like any forum, you have to take what's written with a grain of salt. That includes this forum and any technical forum. But I've gotten lots of great answers to camping, trailer and towing questions specific to my model of trailer and tow vehicle from owners towing with SUV's and lots of hands-on experience.
 
#20 ·
You can find WK2 press kit info posted here:

https://www.jeepforum.com/threads/wk2-specifications-feature-availability-fact-sheets.3291273

The numbers never added up, but by only a hundred pounds or two more or less. There was a lively discussion in the early days, but we were quibling about 100 pounds. Real world doesn't make much difference.

Canada vehicles may be differently specified. In the US its the door sticker, but I dunno of anyone being weighed out on the highway or it being enforced.

For grins, years ago a few of us compared door sticker differences of Overland models loose on the streets and the payload varied with optional equipment. But we are talking about 50-100 pounds at the most, except for those that came with the optional side steps or skid plates. Those robbed 200+ pounds from payload, if I recall correctly. One of the reasons the Traihawk takes a payload hitover the Limited its based on (early models it was based on the Laredo) is all those skid plates.

In the US its not a generic number across the line. Three of the Overlands we check had the same payload number, they other 5 were different. Perhaps Canadian authorities averages the values or perhaps its Jeep Canada.

Dunno about the current GC.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Yep, that's the same press kit information I've seen. The numbers did add up right up until 2012. See below.
Image



Then in 2013, that's when they no longer added up. See below. This is after Jeep realized they needed to do something to pass the moose test. It's up to each individual which number they want to follow; either the number posted on the door or the mathematical number of GVWR -Curb Weight = Payload. To each his own, whatever you're comfortable with.
Image
 
#23 ·
Yes, published curb weights includes all fluids, plus a driver (I don't know where they get the 150 lb number from, 200 lbs would be more realistic). I usually weigh mine with no occupants to get the true curb weight and then I start adding on from there, occupants, cargo, tongue weight, etc. As long as I'm not over my GVWR and axle weights, I'm comfortable with that.
 
#24 ·
Jeep specifies the WK2 more like a car than a truck. So there are some apples and oranges involved and the documents leave a bit to be desired. It has been talked about here for years, not so much lately. This is the general consensus (US models) arrived at a while ago:

"The spec sheet contains the GVWR, Curb weight and generic payload which varies by model and year. The payload specific to the VIN is stamped on the label with the tire pressure data. The spec sheet also has the max trailer weight rating for the different models.


There may be proprietary payload derating involved that varies by year, which means you can't do the math without knowing the secret sauce. If you use the calculations you typically use for a truck, the specified payload is often 100-200 pounds less.

My understanding is :

Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), in the simplest of terms, is the maximum amount a vehicle can weigh as it rolls down the road. This number includes the curb weight of the vehicle, all occupants, and all cargo.

Gross combined vehicle weight rating (GCWR), however, is the maximum weight of a vehicle and its attached trailer. This figure is also inclusive of all passengers and cargo in both the tow vehicle and the trailer. This is also sometimes referred to as gross combined vehicle weight rating (GCVWR).

So add the GVWR and the Trailer weight rating for your model and you have the GCWR."

Setting up the trailer within the tongue weight limits and weighing the Jeep with trailer is a good way to determine if it is set up properly.
 
#25 ·
"The spec sheet contains the GVWR, Curb weight and generic payload which varies by model and year. The payload specific to the VIN is stamped on the label with the tire pressure data. The spec sheet also has the max trailer weight rating for the different models.
In my case, the spec sheet payload matched what was posted on the yellow sticker for both models I owned.

There may be proprietary payload derating involved that varies by year, which means you can't do the math without knowing the secret sauce.
Agreed. And Jeep doesn't tell you what the secret sauce is and we're left to speculate. As I mentioned, I believe the secret sauce is a result of the moose test.

Gross combined vehicle weight rating (GCWR), however, is the maximum weight of a vehicle and its attached trailer. This figure is also inclusive of all passengers and cargo in both the tow vehicle and the trailer. This is also sometimes referred to as gross combined vehicle weight rating (GCVWR).

So add the GVWR and the Trailer weight rating for your model and you have the GCWR."
For some reason Jeep stopped publishing a maximum GCWR for the Grand Cherokee. I'm not sure why as this number should come from the manufacturer.
 
#26 ·
In BC the GVWR, GAWR, tire rating, and wheel rating are legal limits subject to inspection. The GCWR is a manufacturer's recommendation which might only matter for warranty. The practical limit for towing is normally the pin weight. Even with a dually you'll run out of payload before you run out of trailer.

Now there's a standard SAE J2807 Tow Test that truck makers use to publish a GCRW just like there's a test for HP.
 
#27 ·
Yeah I got distracted by the why does things not add up comment....

A vehicle certification label is attached to every Chrysler LLC vehicle. The label certifies that the vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Standards at the time of manufacture.

The label also lists:

Month and year of vehicle manufacture.

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). The gross front and rear axle weight ratings (GAWR's) are based on a minimum rim size and maximum cold tire inflation pressure.

Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).

Type of vehicle.

Type of rear wheels.

Bar code.

Month, Day and Hour (MDH) of final assembly.

Paint and Trim codes.

Country of origin.

The label is located on the driver-side door shut-face.


For reference, my 2011 Overland has a 3200 pound front GAWR, a 3700 pound rear GAWR and a 6800 pound GVWR. The "should not exceed" 1050 payload is on another sticker.

Ratings and recommendations change now and then as regulations change and things are learned.