can someone please tell me what the tip start is? thanks
tip start?
ag082
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In the automatic, you only need to turn the key to "start" for an instant, and the computer will continue to crank the engine until it has started for you. Most new cars (CANbus cars) will do this, since the ignition is no longer wired to the starter relay. Its just a switch wired to the computer.
In the manuals, you must turn and hold the key until it starts.
In the manuals, you must turn and hold the key until it starts.
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I didn't even know that was on my JK!
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Yes. Tip start (automatic transmission) will engage the start motor until the engine starts or for 10 seconds, whichever is shorter.
No tip start on the manual. Though it might have a restart disable feature.
I have a manual and it is definitely possible to crank but not start it. I've done it a few times already by not turning the key for long enough. However, since the Jeep is new it is definitely much easier to start up than my 20 year old car, even though it has a new starter.
Really? My 96 ZJ has no tip start and it does have remote start...? Not factory like my wk but this tip start is something I would never have stumbled upon. I bought mine used and wasn't sure what it was. I thought maybe it was like the newer cars with the push button and maybe it was finger "tip" start. Now I am clear though, another great reason for being a member of JEEPFORUM.
ANYONE looking for a 1996 ZJ limited 5.2 - 160 000 miles., Remote start etc etc. I am getting good at buying jeeps but not very good at selling my old ones
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8,099 Posts
Tip start is not REQUIRED for remote start. However with remote how do you know if you are staying on the button too long and dragging the starter, or your 5 second push was not enough to fire it?
Tip Start makes remote EFFICIENT by cranking until running or ten seconds whichever is shorter (as stated above) with one touch of the button (or key).
The other main thing tip start does is simply reduce voltage demand. When the switch sees 12 volts and sends it to the solenoid you can have the solenoid fire as low as 10 volts! However when you use a RELAY to fire the solenoid and the switch uses 12 volts this drop out can occur at 11 volts (not enough juice for both relay and solenoid). By using the canbus to tell the computer to fire the solenoid the relay is triggered at a lower voltage (I think i read somewhere the canbus voltage is 5.5). This all equates to an increased ability to start at a lower voltages after an unplanned drain of the battery.
Tip Start makes remote EFFICIENT by cranking until running or ten seconds whichever is shorter (as stated above) with one touch of the button (or key).
The other main thing tip start does is simply reduce voltage demand. When the switch sees 12 volts and sends it to the solenoid you can have the solenoid fire as low as 10 volts! However when you use a RELAY to fire the solenoid and the switch uses 12 volts this drop out can occur at 11 volts (not enough juice for both relay and solenoid). By using the canbus to tell the computer to fire the solenoid the relay is triggered at a lower voltage (I think i read somewhere the canbus voltage is 5.5). This all equates to an increased ability to start at a lower voltages after an unplanned drain of the battery.
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I'm not sure what you are saying.
It looks to me like 12 volts goes through the ignition switch. The computer sends 12 volts to the starter relay, which sends power to the starter solenoid coil.
I don't see any place of reduced voltage demand in the JK starting circuit.
Yeah, tip start doesn't help with starting on a dead battery. If anything, it's more electronics to get in the way of starting a dead-ish car. As the car gets smarter, resistance to voltage fluctuations decreases.
Current runs the starter motor. If you had a 10VDC supply with enough amperage, it would start no sweat.
Current runs the starter motor. If you had a 10VDC supply with enough amperage, it would start no sweat.
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maybe I am not sure what I am saying either! lol
I'll give an experience to illustrate.
On my 57 the starter switch fired the solenoid with no relay. Adding my GPS/alarm cutout (I can remotely disable the fuel pump, ignition and starter in real time with GPS tracking so I know where the truck is and when to safely shut it down if stolen) required the switch to supply the relay with the gps unit providing the primary circuit of the relay and the relay supplying voltage to the solenoid. Cold - no problems. 12.8 volts drops to 10.9 while cranking.
Once hot though the 10:1 compression with lots of advance loads the starter more and draws too much juice and the voltage drop (12.8 to 9.5) lets the relay drop out (9.5 is not enough to fire the Bosch type relay AND solenoid at same time) and it won't crank (bypassing the relay it would crank - slow but then all it takes is one spark to fire!). I solved by going to a solid state relay (about three times the price of an electromechanical but will close contacts with as low as .6 volts across the primary side).
My thinking is using the canbus circuit voltage accomplishes the same thing. BUt as you say -if there is 12 volts at the switch, relay and solenoid would show this isn't quite the case.
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