Forgot to put my info: 2016 GC Limited 75th with EcoDiesel, 4x4, 47k miles

 

Are you seeing 9.63V with the new battery?

Check starter connections and grounds?

Check for fault codes?

Security lamp lit up?

 

Are you seeing 9.63V with the new battery?

Check starter connections and grounds?

Check for fault codes?

Security lamp lit up?

Haven't checked starter connections yet, but all the cables to the battery look great. The negative cable didn't fit so tight on the new battery so I put some foil around the post to get it to tighten better, not sure if that would cause any of this issue. Starts up 100% of the time and with no hesitation or signs of hard time starting when I start it normally (with key on me and in vehicle).

Checked fault codes before (none found) but didn't check for any after the new battery; will check again tomorrow to be sure. No CEL of course. I didn't notice any security lamp issues either. The odd thing is that it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, but it will always try to crank, just a matter if it gives up after a 1 second crank or actually lets it start up.

Note I forgot to mention, after the new battery I tried two mornings in a row to remote start and they were both successful, though the car was in the garage so wasn't out in the cold.

Other odd things today; I noticed the vehicle voltmeter was only reading around 13.2-13.3 when running at lunch today, which is quite a bit lower than I saw with the old battery (was around 14.5-14.6). I verified with my meter that the vehicle gauge was reading correctly. Figured maybe the new battery was so much better shape it wasn't calling for as much voltage to charge it?

Did some experimenting this evening:

• Checked voltage minimum with new battery: 10.59V with normal start, then when I try a remote start immediately after it dipped a little more to 10.37V. Still way higher than with the old battery yet the remote start still failed.
• Put meter on to measure current to see if there was any parasitic draw going on. Had to disconnect battery to do this of course. Found a weird thing going on with the radio; it sounded like a hard drive kicking on every now and then and my meter would spike to around .100-.120 amps, but normally hung around .066-.072 amps.
• After disconnecting battery (computer reset I assume), I'm now unable to get the remote start to work at all, even if I run the car for a while and shut it down. Might need to drive it around since I was messing with stuff so long it may have drained a little too much. Note: I kept a charger on the car when I swapped batteries, as to not reset the vehicle memory; not sure if that was a good idea or not considering this gremlin I'm chasing.
• Me suspecting the radio is doing some weird drain, decided to unplug the radio since it is fairly easy to do. Did that and my parasitic draw went to around .067 amps and stayed really steady there. Started it up normally to get the battery back up to juice and noticed it was now charging at 14.1-14.2V. Let run for probably 3-5 minutes and running voltage stayed the same. Wondering why so much inconsistency in the running voltage? Did resetting the computer affect that?
• Let car sit for another couple of hours with radio disconnected and in the garage and tried remote start, again it was unsuccessful. Again let run for a while (decided to hook radio back up at this point) and shut it down. Immediately tried a remote start and again unsuccessful.

 

What kind of OBD port scanner are you using? Ordinary consumer scanners won't pick up more than those that set a CEL.

There was a member here that routinely disconnected the radio to prevent battery drain, until the radio was replaced.

The PCM monitors battery bus voltage and calls for the alternator to charge to maintain the voltage. You should get a battery light if its not charging.

I think there was a thread here maybe a year ago with something similar, I'll try to find it when I get back.

Every time you attempt to remote start it turns over for a second or so?

Its likely the PCM is detecting a fault or unexpected event shortly after the turn over... or perhaps a security fault. Perhaps a bad PCM. You may have to record live PCM data to see whats going on.

 

What kind of OBD port scanner are you using? Ordinary consumer scanners won't pick up more than those that set a CEL.

There was a member here that routinely disconnected the radio to prevent battery drain, until the radio was replaced.

The PCM monitors battery bus voltage and calls for the alternator to charge to maintain the voltage. You should get a battery light if its not charging.

I think there was a thread here maybe a year ago with something similar, I'll try to find it when I get back.

Every time you attempt to remote start it turns over for a second or so?

Its likely the PCM is detecting a fault or unexpected event shortly after the turn over... or perhaps a security fault. Perhaps a bad PCM. You may have to record live PCM data to see whats going on.

Yeah I have a cheap Bluetooth one. I've got an OBDLink MX+ on order since I wanted to make some setting changes anyway using AlphaOBD or DiagFCA, so I can dig deeper once I get that. Not really sure what to monitor, though.

Makes sense about the voltage when running. I figured that was normal and since it's a new battery it shouldn't call for as much voltage as the old one I'd think.

Yes, on every failed remote start it tries to start it (actually cranks the engine) for about 1 second and then shuts down. Of course I have to manually start it after it fails because of how those are programmed (won't let you try again if it fails the first time).

I'm not sure if the radio draining the battery is a real issue or not. The noise it makes is like a hum of a computer hard drive thinking but it is periodic. Wonder if that's the Uconnect just staying alive for remote access. Either way when I left the radio disconnected for the couple of hours it still failed the remote start after that. I do want to upgrade it to the UAQ radio anyway in the future but I'm not convinced that's causing the issue with the remote start.

You know I saw a 22 long rifle cartridge used for a 20 amp fuse once so foil around a battery cable to help it fit is minor....but I would suspect that is a problem. I would get the right battery and see what happens....a bad ground...low voltage can cause a lot of headaches.

Yeah this ticks me off, because it is the right battery they call for this Jeep. I'll have to take it over to the battery shop to figure that out, but I doubt it is my issue with the remote start since it is the same issue I had with the OEM battery.

 

You know I saw a 22 long rifle cartridge used for a 20 amp fuse once so foil around a battery cable to help it fit is minor....but I would suspect that is a problem. I would get the right battery and see what happens....a bad ground...low voltage can cause a lot of headaches.

 

There are several faults that will try to start the engine and then abort that won't affect normal push to start. You would think it wouldn't try to start at all, but I guess it does in some cases.

The brake switch is a relatively common no start issue. It could be misadjusted or sticky. There are two or three contacts in there, and remote start will abort if it thinks the brake pedal is pressed. In a push to start, it looks for a depressed brake pedal. Also low fuel is another often overlooked culprit. The hood sensor could be intermittent. But low battery voltage/poor connections is the most common. The starter engages, pulls the voltage monitored by the PCM down just enough that the start is aborted. Replacing the battery usually fixes that, but you've tried that. By the way, autozone, advancedauto, others do sell replacement AGM batteries, sometimes low stock, dunno about the larger diesel battery. A new battery could be bad. AGM batteries could test good but fail to start a WK2.

I'm not sure off hand which faults prevent turning over and which faults abort, but a decent ODB scanner should be able to read the no start/abort reason, probably in the PCM, may be security module or WIN, depending on year.

 

There are several faults that will try to start the engine and then abort that won't affect normal push to start. You would think it wouldn't try to start at all, but I guess it does in some cases.

The brake switch is a relatively common no start issue. It could be misadjusted or sticky. There are two or three contacts in there, and remote start will abort if it thinks the brake pedal is pressed. In a push to start, it looks for a depressed brake pedal. Also low fuel is another often overlooked culprit. The hood sensor could be intermittent. But low battery voltage/poor connections is the most common. The starter engages, pulls the voltage monitored by the PCM down just enough that the start is aborted. Replacing the battery usually fixes that, but you've tried that. By the way, autozone, advancedauto, others do sell replacement AGM batteries, sometimes low stock, dunno about the larger diesel battery. A new battery could be bad. AGM batteries could test good but fail to start a WK2.

I'm not sure off hand which faults prevent turning over and which faults abort, but a decent ODB scanner should be able to read the no start/abort reason, probably in the PCM, may be security module or WIN, depending on year.

Cool yeah I'll give it a try when I get the OBDLink and see what I can find (should arrive tomorrow).

I'm not sure about the brake switch, but from my understanding the hood, door, and low fuel faults will actually tell you on the screen after a failed remote start. I know the low fuel one does because I did get one failure for that the other day because my fuel light was on at that time. The only message I get for these failed 1-second starts is the generic "remote start is disabled - Start engine to reset." Does an issue with the brake switch give that message too or does it have its own message? Still seems weird to me that the brake switch would cause it to be intermittent, since it is when it sits for a time period that causes the failure. Still seems like battery voltage issue but my new battery is testing significantly higher than the old battery (voltage drops only to about 10.3V verses 9.6V from the old battery). I'm guessing there is an issue with the PCM; maybe it needs to "relearn" the new battery somehow or it just needs reflashed, or it is just a bad PCM?

I'll see what I can find out with the OBDLink, otherwise it might be a trip to the dealer. Luckily the PCM is under the powertrain warranty but if it is just a programming or flashing issue it might not be covered.

 

There is no relearn for the battery. There are several modules that monitor voltage. A bad connection could drop voltage wherever they are monitoring it but not at or near the battery or where you happen to measure it. There is quite a bit of current moving through the starter. (corrosion in the module connector or module ground)

Brake switches fail in unexpected ways, they can be intermittent or marginally adjusted. They are suppose to auto adjust, but....

Without the reason code, we are just guessing.

The 2016 radio has flash storage, no hard drive. You may be hearing the HVAC making adjustments.

 

There is no relearn for the battery. There are several modules that monitor voltage. A bad connection could drop voltage wherever they are monitoring it but not at or near the battery or where you happen to measure it. There is quite a bit of current moving through the starter. (corrosion in the module connector or module ground)

Brake switches fail in unexpected ways, they can be intermittent or marginally adjusted. They are suppose to auto adjust, but....

Without the reason code, we are just guessing.

The 2016 radio has flash storage, no hard drive. You may be hearing the HVAC making adjustments.

So for the brake switch issue, does it not usually give a reason for that when remote start fails? I wonder if it is worth just replacing the switch to rule it out.

The noise was for sure coming from the radio. I sat in the car with nothing on for maybe 15 minutes and would intermittently hear the buzzing noise from the radio. Took the trim off and it was definitely coming from the radio screen/module area. Once I disconnected the main harness from the radio the noise and subsequent current draw disappeared.

I actually just ordered a new UAQ radio for the Jeep, so I'll be interested to see if that noise is gone when I swap it out!

 

A little more background..... Note that the TIPM gets involved with remote start:

When a valid key is received from the FOB, the security module sets the ignition position to START/CRANK.

The Totally Integrated Power Module (TIPM) then turns the ignition status to START/CRANK.

If conditions are correct to start, the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) turns On the high side of the starter relay and turns the ANL_LFT signal (the crank hold signal) to True. If the TIPM is still in START/CRANK, and the ANL_LFT signal is True, then the TIPM turns On the low side of the relay and the engine will start cranking.

Once the engine is started, the PCM deactivates the double start over ride. The TIPM will then deactivate the starter either when the engine starts or the maximum time has been reach for the tip start (10 sec for gas and 25 sec for diesel).

The security module changes the ignition position to RUN if the start type is TIP start or the 2 second time expires or the PCM indicates the vehicle is not in park or neutral. The engine can be manually shut down by the driver with speeds over 5 MPH (8 KPH) in any gear.

Also note that the remote start system will automatically be cancelled if any of the following occur:

• IF THE ENGINE STALLS OR RPM EXCEEDS 2500
• NORMAL TIME OUT RUN MODE (15 MINUTES)
• CUSTOMER MOVES IGNITION INTO RUN/START
• ANY VEHICLE DOOR AJAR
• TRUNK/LIFTGATE AJAR
• HOOD AJAR
• START COUNTER REACHED
• LOW RPM SHUTDOWN
• KEY IN IGNITION
• BRAKE PRESSED
• THE HAZARD SWITCH IS PRESSED
• NOT IN PARK OR NEUTRAL
• VEHICLE SPEED HIGH
• VTA ALARM TRIGGERED
• PANIC MODE ACTIVATED
• BATTERY VOLTAGE HIGH
• BATTERY VOLTAGE LOW
• LOSS OF BATTERY VOLTAGE
• MIL ON
• LOW OIL PRESSURE
• COOLANT TEMPERATURE HIGH
• CRANK NO START
• RKE OFF MESSAGE
• VEHICLE NOT CONFIGURED
• HOOD SWITCH NOT INSTALLED OR INOPERATIVE
• NO AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
• INVALID KEY
• IGNITION SNA
• IGNITION NOT IN LOCK
• VEHICLE IN SHIPPING MODE
• VEHICLE NOT PROGRAMMED



Since the horn sounds and the parking lights flash, this verifies the TIPM is receiving the CAN BUS message from the security module. It also verifies the RF signal for Remote Start from the FOBIK to the module is operating correctly.

1. Using the scan tool, check the Remote Start inhibits of the TIPM or any ACTIVE DTCs listed in all modules. The inhibits are listed above.

NOTE:
Inhibits may be found under the system tests or miscellaneous functions tab. The fuel level may not be a listed inhibit.


Could the FOB be transmitting a cancel start command?

 

Wow that is all super great info, thanks a ton! Wondering, are you getting this diagnostics info from the service manual? I'd like to get a hold of the FSM for this Jeep at some point; dunno if there are any floating around or if I'll need to suck it up and buy one full price?

Could the FOB be transmitting a cancel start command?

That'd be odd if it does, since it only seems to fail the remote start after the car sits a while. I'm not sure, but I don't think if you manually turn off the remote start via the fob that you'll get the "remote start disabled" message on the dash? I'll try the other remote just for kicks too. I did replace the batteries in both remotes after I got the car since one of them did say it had a low battery and I had some issues getting either to work at all one time during the trip home.

 

You'll have to buy a CD, it uses an exploder browser. Or you can subscribe on line. Techauthority.com.

 

I'm still waiting for my license key to be sent to me for AlphaOBD to be able to really play around with it, but using the demo version I did notice only one odd thing; the "battery temperature" was showing -201 degrees C. Not sure if that is something that is just not used on these Jeeps or if that indicates an actual problem? Otherwise, I went through many of the modules and didn't find any codes, at least nothing that would have caused remote start issues.

Of course now that we've had warmer days, it has been remote starting just fine even after sitting. It really seems to be temperature dependent on this failure, which hopefully will help narrow it down!

 

So strange. We've had a cold last few days and my remote start has worked flawlessly, both when parked overnight in the garage and all day outside when at work in the cold. Dunno what has changed! I'm still seeing the -201 C battery temperature on my AlfaOBD scans, so not sure what the deal is there. I think I've found the battery temp sensor here, but it appears maybe it is only on the diesels because I cannot find it showing on any parts diagrams or even videos I've found of people changing batteries on WK2s. If I unplug the connector, I don't see much change in the temperature on AlfaOBD, and I don't get any battery light or CEL at all. So ????

 

I still think there might be an issue. The battery voltage while driving still seems high to me. Usually 14.2-14.6V which is odd since the factory battery had a sticker on it saying not to charge it with more than 14.11V. Every now and then it'll be charging at like 13.8V or so. That's what makes me think my battery temp sensor is bad and that is what this guy is in the photo above? Jeep lists it as a "Battery Sensor" but doesn't say it is temperature, but I'd guess that is what it is. Not sure how to test these? It's $111 retail from Mopar, so I'd like to test it before replacing it.

 

whoops I mean 14.4V max.

FYI how come I cannot edit posts here? Do I not have enough posts yet to allow that?

 

That is a current sensor, its part of the terminal end. Its used to regulate charging current. Dunno if that one also has a temperature sensor.

If the battery voltage is not within range it won’t remote start.

 

That is a current sensor, its part of the terminal end. Its used to regulate charging current. Dunno if that one also has a temperature sensor.

If the battery voltage is not within range it won't remote start.

Ahh darn. I'm wondering because mine is showing that erroneous battery temperature and was wondering if that is causing the remote start failures. I doubt it since it seems to show the crazy low value all the time while the remote start works half the time.

I jinxed myself; remote start failed again when I was leaving work today. Still cold out so not sure what the deal is. I'll do some more digging now that I got the AlfaOBD up and running. Ughhhh

 

Off hand I dunno what components are on the LIN 2 bus in 2016. LIN 1 on early models are things like the terrain switch, dash switch banks, multifunction switch, compass. A loose connection/improper pin terminal tensions are prime culprits in LIN 1 problems, especially intermittents. Dunno if LIN 2 is similar.

I've seen the TIPM also referred to as a FCM or IPM. AlfaOBD uses Fiat/Alfa terminology and the names of the modules could differ.

 

Cool thanks I'll check again in there for FCM or IPM. I bet LIN 2 is something with the radio since I did have to turn the car on with the radio disconnected in order to move the shifter to get the trim off. Probably why it had a code for that. Now that I've cleared the codes I'll see if any codes come back after a failed remote start. Been failing almost every time now the last couple of days.

 

dcsport

No FCM or IPM modules that I can see on AlfaOBD. So looks like I'm out of luck trying to diagnose this myself. Going to the dealer soon for the diesel AEM so I'm going to have them look into it. Of course it probably won't fail for them LOL. It is weird, it'll fail several tries in a row and then it'll work fine several times in a row too. Seems pretty random to me.

 

So I took my Jeep to the dealer for the AEM (diesel emissions fix) and had them look at the remote start issue. They didn't find any codes nor were they able to recreate the issue (of course). I did get a video of the failure and shared that with them but that doesn't really help them. Figured I'd post here too to show you guys what it does. Was hoping the ECM re-flash they did as part of the AEM might fix the issue, but sure enough I've had a couple of more failures since picking it up last Friday.

I'm lost on what to do. Doesn't both me that much in the summer but I really want the remote start for the winter months. That's one of the main reason I bought this Jeep over other options. Not even sure if I can get an aftermarket remote start installed but that just seems silly to have to do.

Here's link to my video of the failure occurring:

 

just getting back to basics. on the new battery with the car off what was the voltage across the terminals? and with the car running what was the voltage?
anything below 12V with the vehicle off, is no good. with the car running it should be (13.7V-14.5V). If the battery is not producing greater than 12V while the car is off, it's no good or it's the wrong battery. If the voltage is not at least 13.7V while it is running then you might have an alternator problem, where as you're charging the battery too slowly or not at all, and you're just running the battery down until it's no good anymore.


Also ditch the foil and get some lead shims at the local auto store.

 

just getting back to basics. on the new battery with the car off what was the voltage across the terminals? and with the car running what was the voltage?
anything below 12V with the vehicle off, is no good. with the car running it should be (13.7V-14.5V). If the battery is not producing greater than 12V while the car is off, it's no good or it's the wrong battery. If the voltage is not at least 13.7V while it is running then you might have an alternator problem, where as you're charging the battery too slowly or not at all, and you're just running the battery down until it's no good anymore.

Also ditch the foil and get some lead shims at the local auto store.

I'm getting 13.8V-14.6V while driving with the new battery. If I remember correctly, I never saw anything below 12V on the battery when not running. I only know the voltage drop during a start procedure was better with the new battery (dropping to ~10.4V vs dropping in to the mid 9s with the old battery). Since the new battery didn't solve any issue with the remote start failures, I'm thinking that is not the culprit I'm chasing (even with the loose battery terminal issue).

I haven't tried the lead shims yet, but they seem like they will be way too thick for what I need. The shims are pretty thick and like I said a piece of foil was all that was needed, so I'm not confident this will work. I asked the dealer about this issue and they said it is the aftermarket battery (though they didn't look at it), and when I ask the battery guy who sells the Odyssey batteries he says it is a worn out terminal. The terminal looks brand new still so I feel like it is the aftermarket battery that is different, just ticked that I paid for a premium battery and it has this issue. I don't feel like buying a $100+ battery cable just to prove it to them either...

 

If its worth the effort, you could measure the battery post diameter and compare to specifications. In my youth we used to drive a screw between the post and cable end to assure good contact

The book says, open circuit, a 12V battery voltage means about 25% charged. A 100% charged battery should be 12.6 volts or more open circuit.

 

If its worth the effort, you could measure the battery post diameter and compare to specifications. In my youth we used to drive a screw between the post and cable end to assure good contact

The book says, open circuit, a 12V battery voltage means about 25% charged. A 100% charged battery should be 12.6 volts or more open circuit.

I'm pretty sure they're tapered by design, and have no idea what the spec is for those. I would have compared to my old one but turned it in for core, unfortunately. I've contacted Odyssey just today to see what their tech support has to say. Maybe I'll have them swap me out for a new one to see if it was a faulty one I got.

 

I’m having the exact same issue as originally described on a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Except when I went to start like normal yesterday after a failed remote start it flashed the ETC light and clicked but wouldn’t turn over at all. I just had the battery checked last week when it flashed that light and almost didn’t start and they told me it was perfectly fine and so was the alternator. It wouldn’t let me jump it to start either. Today it started up just fine no problem but still won’t let me use remote start unless it’s right after I turn the engine off.

 

When I had remote start issues it was the hood latch cable somehow, been a while ago but it was definitely in that Mechanism. Mine had different symptoms, would not crank at all just the disabled warning. Maybe mine thought the hood was open?