[wcjr]

I thought based on your first posts that it was doing it alot more often. I also though from your posts that it was something that just started all of a sudden. I can tell you when I had my 06 Grand Cherokee with a Hemi it would do this every once in a while from when it was new. I never took it in for this because it was so rare that it would do it that I knew they would never be able to verify the problem.

Sorry for the confusion...like i said it is very sporadic.

How would you test for a bad fuel injector?

 

[mpq12508]

I don't know if you can test for it but if you get in the throttle good and it hesitates for a minute then thats another sign on a bad injector. Advanced or auto zone could probably plug a decoder to it and check.

 

[RB145]

If theres not engine light forget going to autozone there won't be any code. The only way an injector would cause this condition is if it were dripping after the engine was shut of and flooding it. The way to check is to look and see if you get any black smoke out of the exhust on startup. I doubt this is the problem because it would do it all the time.

 

[Walt]

.....How would you test for a bad fuel injector?

1. Leakdown test. Pull the injector headers out of their operating position one bank at a time. Put a small metal tin under each injector tip overnight and see if there is an accumulation of gasoline. If you have a Schrader valve on your fuel header, install a pressure gauge. [It was deleted on the '08's.] The fuel rail stays pressurized, so be careful. Do not try to undo anything if you do not know trhe depressurization procedure.

2. PID and Code Reader. Get a PID reader to see if the injectors are
operating correctly. Chrysler has a set of specific Parameter ID"s that look at injector pulse width. Also, Long Term and Short Term Fuel Trims and misfire codes may provide a clue. That's how we found my bad one. We also switched the injector from #8 cyl to #4 cyl and the misfire DTC followed it. [Dealer is replacing it today under warranty.]

Before you do anything else, run a can of fuel system cleaner through your gas tank first. Much cheaper first step...............

 

[meep]

meh... throw a bottle of techron in there for 2-3 tanks and see where it goes...

 

[suzieque]

after a costly dealer cleaning of my injectors on my Dodge RAM 8.0L, I removed the fuel rail with the injectors still attached, then I turned the key on to pressurize the system, I could see at least 2 injectors dripping fuel and replaced those. You may need to do the same.

 

[wcjr]

It did the long start twice this weekend. I was wanting the dealership to figure out what was going on.
The vehicle has the remander of an extended warranty until the first or second week in November.

 

[wcjr]

Has anybody replaced the camshaft position sensor and had any luck fixing this issue?

http://www.lxforums.com/board/f61/trouble-camshaft-position-sensor-replacement-237990/

What about the crankshaft position sensor?

 

[wcjr]

1. Leakdown test. Pull the injector headers out of their operating position one bank at a time. Put a small metal tin under each injector tip overnight and see if there is an accumulation of gasoline. If you have a Schrader valve on your fuel header, install a pressure gauge. [It was deleted on the '08's.] The fuel rail stays pressurized, so be careful. Do not try to undo anything if you do not know trhe depressurization procedure.

2. PID and Code Reader. Get a PID reader to see if the injectors are
operating correctly. Chrysler has a set of specific Parameter ID"s that look at injector pulse width. Also, Long Term and Short Term Fuel Trims and misfire codes may provide a clue. That's how we found my bad one. We also switched the injector from #8 cyl to #4 cyl and the misfire DTC followed it. [Dealer is replacing it today under warranty.]

Before you do anything else, run a can of fuel system cleaner through your gas tank first. Much cheaper first step...............

What is a PID reader?

I have ran a few bottles of fuel system cleaner through with no luck.

 

[wcjr]

after a costly dealer cleaning of my injectors on my Dodge RAM 8.0L, I removed the fuel rail with the injectors still attached, then I turned the key on to pressurize the system, I could see at least 2 injectors dripping fuel and replaced those. You may need to do the same.

How hard is it to pull the fuel rail? Is there a write up on this?

 

[Walt]

What is a PID reader?

I have ran a few bottles of fuel system cleaner through with no luck.

PID = Parameter ID. It's the readings that are embedded in the OBD-II. There are generic and Chrysler-specific PID's. This is what the StarScan reads also (I think).

On fuel injector cleaner, we can likely rule that out. You homed in on the injectors, so we responded.

Next free trial: Go to Sears and get a battery capacity check (if your battery is original OEM -or- 3+ years old). A battery with a failing cell (or sulfated) will show reduced starting capacity. PCM requires a minimum voltage to fire up the engine. Most with this problem report other symptoms though....like flashing dash lights, headlights out, etc.

Both the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor are relatively easy replacements: 1 bolt and 1 electrical connection each. On the HEMI, they are at the front & rear of the passenger's side. Camshaft up high and crankshaft down low, respectively. However, I would think that these would show up when running, not just at startup.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...............

 

[wcjr]

PID = Parameter ID. It's the readings that are embedded in the OBD-II. There are generic and Chrysler-specific PID's. This is what the StarScan reads also (I think).

On fuel injector cleaner, we can likely rule that out. You homed in on the injectors, so we responded.

Next free trial: Go to Sears and get a battery capacity check (if your battery is original OEM -or- 3+ years old). A battery with a failing cell (or sulfated) will show reduced starting capacity. PCM requires a minimum voltage to fire up the engine. Most with this problem report other symptoms though....like flashing dash lights, headlights out, etc.

Both the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor are relatively easy replacements: 1 bolt and 1 electrical connection each. On the HEMI, they are at the front & rear of the passenger's side. Camshaft up high and crankshaft down low, respectively. However, I would think that these would show up when running, not just at startup.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...............

Battery has been checked, everything was fine on that.
I was actually thinking that it could be a leaking fuel injector.
That's why I was asking the correct way to pull the fuel rail with injectors attached to test for leaks.

Just a break down..... The vehicle always starts correctly once it has been sitting overnight or for several hours (cool motor). The only time it has a hard start is when the vehicle is warm and it was just shut off within 10-30 minutes before. But that being said it doesnt happen everytime. Would there be any performance issues with a leaking fuel injector(s) or something else to look for?

 

[wcjr]

its back in the dealership....going on day 3.
They have checked the fuel pressure and it does not seem to be a leaking fuel injector (its not losing fuel pressure). They have a fuel pressure guage mounted and have even drove around and taped it to the windshield and have not noticed any fuel pressure issues. They also have a computer in the passenger set hooked up and have not picked anything up.
No stored codes, no check engine line, etc. Has only done the long crank once while it has been thier. They have drove it around town and warmed the motor and parked it and its been starting fine. They havent had any luck replicating the issue. Any further advice would be appreciated. It seems like such a simple problem, but hard to pin-point.

 

[gordoj52]

Mine did this for the first time ever today. Took maybe 3-5 seconds of cranking to start. I shut it off, tried again and started right up. I'll be keeping my eye on this thread if this continues.

 

[meep]

if it starts cold but struggles warm, it isn't likely fuel pressure leakdown. sort of unusual, actually. might wait until it gets bad enuf to throw a code???

M

 

[wcjr]

Fuel rails were pulled today no leaks were present.
Any ideas? I'm bringing the car home tomorrow whether they have found the problem or not.

 

[wcjr]

if it starts cold but struggles warm, it isn't likely fuel pressure leakdown. sort of unusual, actually. might wait until it gets bad enuf to throw a code???

M

It never has a issue starting cold, ever! Most of the time it starts when its warm with no issues. Its just every so often it has a long crank.
Its not a big deal at all and no way affects anything, performance, etc. on the vehicle. It is just more of an aggrevation than anything. Once I first started looking in to it, I was assuming that it was an easy fix. Which it probably will be once I figure out what exactly is causing it.

It almost has to be something eletrical because if is wasnt it would happen everytime you start the car warm. Seems like it is a problem that a few others are having as well, maybe someone will eventually find a solution.

 

[wcjr]

Mine did this for the first time ever today. Took maybe 3-5 seconds of cranking to start. I shut it off, tried again and started right up. I'll be keeping my eye on this thread if this continues.

Exactly what mine is doing. It is very sporatic, so it may not happen again for another 20 or so warm starts.

 

[wcjr]

Jeep dealership just called me and wants me to bring the vehicle back in Monday.
The Chrysler Engineer group said that this is becoming a pretty common issue on the Hemi's.
There suggestion was to do a $200.00 system clean that cleans throttle body, intake manifold, cylinders, etc, etc. From what they said, they are going to hook it up to a machine with this cleaner and run it for a few hours. They said that one of the biggest problems is the quality of oil you use. They recommended Mopar or any big brand sythentics. I can see a catch can in my future. I just havent had the vehicle long enough to do it yet.

Will let you know how this pans out, Hope its not a wasted $200.00.

 

[wcjr]

Cleaner with machine was done today. Keeping my fingers crossed, hopefully this will fix the issue.

Will keep everyone updated.