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Help understanding offset ball joints

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Ej132

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello all,
Went in for a tire balance and alignment and shop told me my Jeep needed some work. So looking at doing my ball joints Im trying to understand offset ball joints. Are there any disadvantages to these? Less strong, more prone to fail with large tires vs regular ball joints? Also do I need the top and bottom to be the same offset? I ask because on looking online at rockauto, I see they dont sell matching up and lower offsets in their Moog.
Daily Driver Category
MOOG K100311
Front Upper; Replaces OEM Offset To Provide 1 Degree +/- Camber/Caster

$73.79

MOOG K100312
Front Upper; Replaces OEM Offset To Provide 1-1/2 Degree +/- Camber/Caster

$73.79

MOOG K100198 Info
Front Upper; Replaces OEM Offset To Provide 2 Degree +/- Camber/Caster
Performance Category
MOOG K7403 {#83500202} Problem Solver Info
Image

Front Lower; Replaces OEM Offset To Provide 1-3/4 Degree +/- Caster/Camber

$56.79

MOOG K100056 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Problem Solver Info
Front Upper; Adjustable; Plus Or Minus 1/2 Degree Camber/Caster

$61.79
Just seems odd not to do the same offset top and bottom and also the pricing doesnt make much sense as the performance is cheaper than some of the daily driver?
Any help would be great thanks
 
#3 ·
X2 to going with non-adjustable ball joints from Spicer. You don't need adjustable ball joints unless something is bent.

This is a very good ball joint set to go with... it is a direct replacement for what the factory installed but is a more heavy duty replacement... https://www.amazon.com/Spicer-70694...?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1479312827&sr=1-3&keywords=spicer+ball+joints+jeep+tj

If you get that set, you can toss that threaded brass insert included in the kit which is only used on older YJs.
 
#4 ·
I had to get a 2° offset ball joint only because my front axle was tweaked such that I couldn't get the caster set equally. As far as how long it last I am not too concerned since it has a lifetime warranty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#5 ·
WatchThis said:
my front axle was tweaked such that I couldn't get the caster set equally.
Click to expand...
The left/right caster angles are not supposed to be equal, they are welded on so you get slightly more caster angle on one side. If I recall correctly, it's the driver's side that is supposed to have slightly less caster angle. Roads are crowned for water runoff so the slightly reduced driver's side caster angle tends to counteract the natural tendency to drift down the slight slope towards the right. It will pull towards the side with the least amount of caster angle.
 
#6 ·
Jerry Bransford said:
The left/right caster angles are not supposed to be equal, they are welded on so you get slightly more caster angle on one side. If I recall correctly, it's the driver's side that is supposed to have slightly less caster angle. Roads are crowned for water runoff so the slightly reduced driver's side caster angle tends to counteract the natural tendency to drift down the slight slope towards the right. It will pull towards the side with the least amount of caster angle.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I had. The driver side was a little over 2° less caster. I had a shop do the alignment. Recommended by fellow jeepers and the guy who did it had many jeeps himself. So I just trusted they knew what they were doing. What really sucks too was that the ball joint they took out was new.

I will take to another shop that specializes in jeeps in St. Louis area. Axleboys
Thanks again Jerry for help

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#7 ·
WatchThis said:
That's exactly what I had. The driver side was a little over 2° less caster.
Click to expand...
Something was indeed bent then, 2 degrees of difference between the sides is way excessive... there should only be several tenths of a degree difference. :)
 
#8 ·
Ej132 said:
Hello all,
Went in for a tire balance and alignment and shop told me my Jeep needed some work. So looking at doing my ball joints Im trying to understand offset ball joints. Are there any disadvantages to these? Less strong, more prone to fail with large tires vs regular ball joints? Also do I need the top and bottom to be the same offset? I ask because on looking online at rockauto, I see they dont sell matching up and lower offsets in their Moog.
Daily Driver Category
MOOG K100311
Front Upper; Replaces OEM Offset To Provide 1 Degree +/- Camber/Caster

$73.79

MOOG K100312
Front Upper; Replaces OEM Offset To Provide 1-1/2 Degree +/- Camber/Caster

$73.79

MOOG K100198 Info
Front Upper; Replaces OEM Offset To Provide 2 Degree +/- Camber/Caster
Performance Category
MOOG K7403 {#83500202} Problem Solver Info
Image

Front Lower; Replaces OEM Offset To Provide 1-3/4 Degree +/- Caster/Camber

$56.79

MOOG K100056 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Problem Solver Info
Front Upper; Adjustable; Plus Or Minus 1/2 Degree Camber/Caster

$61.79
Just seems odd not to do the same offset top and bottom and also the pricing doesnt make much sense as the performance is cheaper than some of the daily driver?
Any help would be great thanks
Click to expand...
The reason one would not want the same offset top and bottom is due to the distance the upper and lower are above and below centerline of the axle tube. The lower is much closer to center line so a .5° offset there would need to be balanced by a 1 or 1.5° offset the other direction when doing a caster offset to keep the axle shaft centered in the axle tube.

In other words, a small shift forward or back at the lower ball joint moves the knuckle far more than the same shift at the top does.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Mrblaine,
That makes sense about distances, didnt even consider that but makes a lot of sense.

I am looking into offset because my axle tubes are bent(forgot to put in initial post). Alignment shop told me the camber was off by 1 degree on each side about six months ago when I had it in, thats why I am considering the offset ball joints.

Is there a good formula for calcualting what I need top and bottom? or are they adjustable meaning variable and Id set them when I have them in hand?
 
#10 ·
Ej132 said:
Mrblaine,
That makes sense about distances, didnt even consider that but makes a lot of sense.

I am looking into offset because my axle tubes are bent(forgot to put in initial post). Alignment shop told me the camber was off by 1 degree on each side about six months ago when I had it in, thats why I am considering the offset ball joints.

Is there a good formula for calcualting what I need top and bottom? or are they adjustable meaning variable and Id set them when I have them in hand?
Click to expand...
If you are adjusting for camber, do it at the top one because you will be putting the face of the knuckle back into the proper relationship with the long axis of the axle tubes. Since there is no shift that will be offsetting the shaft in the tube, it won't matter.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
mrblaine said:
If you are adjusting for camber, do it at the top one because you will be putting the face of the knuckle back into the proper relationship with the long axis of the axle tubes. Since there is no shift that will be offsetting the shaft in the tube, it won't matter.
Click to expand...
So would that mean putting a standard (not offset) in the bottom then trying to find a 1 degree off set top?
 
#14 ·
Once the off set ball joint is installed, you cant readjust it without removing it from knuckle. I have a HPd30 that has .9 degree camber offset. Installed a .5 degree off set upper at its max offset and that brought the alignment back into spec at .4 degree... IIRC
 
#15 ·
Ej132 said:
Ok, thank you for the help.

So if I know Im off 1 degree now should I get ones that offset to 1.5 degrees to be able to adjust down the road for future bending or are they not tuneable? Never seen an offset one so just trying to think ahead
Click to expand...
The pin is offset in the body. The change in caster or camber is determined by the orientation of the pin when you press the ball joint into the inner C. If you orient it to the inside or outside of the hole, you affect the camber, if you orient it to the front or back of the hole, you affect the caster. Once it is installed, it is not able to be changed without removing it and turning it and pressing it back into the hole.
 
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