Turn the dizzy 180*.

There are two TDC, but only one is the firing stroke. I'm willing to bet you're out one full crank revolution.

 

WOW! Third or fourth this week!

STEPS, Follow them and you should find your 'Issue',

1. Locate #1 cylinder.

2. Take the spark plug out of #1.

3. 'Bump' the engine over until you feel compression stroke starting. Finger OVER the hole works best, but you can use a pressure gauge (NOT compression gauge!),

4. When you are SURE you have compression stroke with the piston on the way UP (Didn't roll over TDC and on the way back down!)

Then put something SOFT in the spark plug hole, rotate the engine BY HAND! (NO STARTER!)
Feel for the top of the piston and stop moving the crank when you find the piston all the way up in the cylinder (TDC or Top Dead Center)....

Once you have VERIFIED...

You have #1 Cylinder,
You have COMPRESSION STROKE,
You have the Piston at TDC,

5. Have a look at the harmonic balancer 'Hash' mark.
See if it lines up with the 'Zero' degree mark,
Or on V-8 covers, the 'TDC' mark within a couple of degrees, (They are never 'Perfect')

If you have VERIFIED Compression, instead of Exhaust stroke,
You have VERIFIED TDC of #1 Piston,
You have VERIFIED the Balancer isn't lying to you,

6. Find your #1 plug wire terminal on the cap,
Mark the location of that #1 plug wire terminal on the distributor housing so you know where the #1 terminal is with the cap off the distributor,

7. Then flip the cap and see where the rotor is pointing.
If it's NOT pointing at the mark you made, then you have the distributor in the wrong place on the camshaft.

If it's pointing away from the mark you made, You set the distributor in on TDC of EXHAUST STROKE instead of TDC of COMPRESSION STROKE.
Lift the distributor and Turn the rotor to BEFORE #1 mark (Clockwise rotation) and try resetting the distributor.

If it's point PAST the #1 terminal mark you made on the housing (Past means clockwise rotation) then you didn't allow for the spiral cut of the distributor gear on the camshaft gear and you need to lift the distributor, back up the rotor to BEFORE the #1 terminal and try again.

Sometimes this takes a few tries.

8. Once you have the distributor set so the rotor is BEFORE the mark you made for #1 terminal,
Then remember to rotate the engine for TWO COMPLETE ROTATIONS and come back to TDC of #1 on COMPRESSION.

That will seat the distributor on the oil pump and camshaft gear, and TWO REVLOTIONS will bring you back to COMPRESSION STROKE,
If the balancer checked out, then use the mark to find TDC again without sticking anything in the spark plug hole.

AFTER THE TWO REVOLUTIONS OF THE ENGINE,
Check the rotor again.
It should be pointing at the mark you made for #1 spark plug terminal...

IF IT'S NOT pointing at the mark you made for #1 plug wire, but VERY CLOSE, turn the housing,
IF YOU HAVE THE VACUUM ADVANCE CLEARANCE.

If it's pretty far off, you are better off lifting the distributor and trying again...

Let us know what you find...

 

Check the fuel supply and follow the instructions carefully with the new carb. Could be that the carb mixture screws aren't set right, the fuel filter is upside down or backwards, or the fuel pump is not working well.

 

Fuel filter is installed right (pump to single side-double port side larger to carb other to return). I checked my TDC again. I had my wife hold a stick in the No. 1 hole and rotated it back and forth to find it for sure. TDC was about 5 degrees before TDC on the balancer. then I install the distributor facing no. 1 wire on the cap and vacuum port about where it would hit the power steering belt like before. I rotated 2 times by hand and it ended up at my same mark. It spins better now with the starter but a BIG no go for starting.

SO... I guess it has to be the new carb needing adjusting????

Oh and yes I have the vacuum line disconnected from the carb/dist and it is plugged.

I do have spark but it just turns over and no rumbling (trying to start).

It has new coil, wires are only a year old along with the distributor. All wiring was redone to avoid AMC faults of emissions.

Their isn't any safety switches I am unaware of is their? I got rid of the factory computer and replaced it with a MSD but I did put a mech oil pressure/temp gauge in and that won't be the problem right???

 

I DID NOT SEE ANY MENTION OF BIG #3!
If you don't locate COMPRESSION STROKE, you are probably not getting a good reading!
You MUST find COMPRESSION STROKE before you hunt for TDC!

The piston comes up the first time, and you have Compression Stroke, and the mark on the balancer shows TDC,
The next time the piston comes up, You still show TDC, but you are on EXHAUST STROKE, exactly 180 degrees out on the camshaft/ignition...

Crank has 4 'Strokes',
Up-Compression,
Down-Power,
Up-Exhaust,
Down-Intake
Then it starts over with compression,

The crank has to turn TWICE for you to come back to compression, and I believe you may be TDC of EXHAUST stroke, not compression unless you verify differently...

----------------

Well, if you are getting spark, And it's at the correct time,
Then you have a fuel issue.

Try a little gas down the carb, or starting fluid if you have cranked it until the plugs are coated.
Starting fluid will clean off the plugs and FIRE IMMEDIATELY if the ignition is even close to 'Correct'...

 

Yeah, two people telling you the same thing kind of points to the solution, wouldn't it? Your distributor is 180* out. You're trying to fire the spark plug at the top of the exhaust stroke instead of the top of the compression stroke..

 

DID NOT SEE ANY MENTION OF BIG #3!
If you don't locate COMPRESSION STROKE, you are probably not getting a good reading!
You MUST find COMPRESSION STROKE before you hunt for TDC!

Yeah, two people telling you the same thing kind of points to the solution, wouldn't it? Your distributor is 180* out. You're trying to fire the spark plug at the top of the exhaust stroke instead of the top of the compression stroke..
_______

Here we go again........:agree:

 

Reds

Don't mess with the carb yet. It is almost certainly what the other guys have said, in that the dist is 180 degrees out of sync. Mark it's position, then pull it out, and turn the engine over one time, put it back in and line it up with the mark you made. That should get you started

 

Ok I rolled it over but I didn't take into account x2. So I guess the best solution for me at this point is to pull the valve cover and verify that way or crank it over one more rev and try.

If I pull the cover is their a way to check both valves are closed without a dial indicator?

Timing has always kicked my ***! I have driven my jeep across country twice (once with a broken geared T-5 tranny) and up and down both coast never having to tow it or have it down this long. I have a lot to learn still.

Thanks for everyone's help even if it's the the same questions day after day. I have to take the kid to Transformers 3 now and hopefully calm down from all this.

8 days in 110 degree weather and I'm not only burnt skinned but burnt out too. Plus it doesn't help being away from my own garage and tools leaving me to borrow from every store in town.

 

don't pull a valve cover. Do it Old Skool.
Pull # 1 plug and put your thumb over the empty plug hole.Have wifey/buddy start just barely "bumping" the starter as briefly as possible. Pretty soon as you hit the starter it will try to "blow" your thumb off the plug hole. That's because the piston is rising on the compression stroke. As soon as that happens, go to the other side and shine a light at the balancer and gently bring to to TDC. That's where it fires, top of compression stroke. And if you miss catching it on TDC there just keep doing it 'til it tries to blow your thumb off the hole and bring it to the top again.
It's really easy.

 

Nothing simpler than the thumb over the hole, quite unmistakeable for anything else. I take all the spark plugs out first to make it easier to swing the engine.

Are you sure you have spark when it is cranking? Somewhere in your posts I got a hint it may be sparking but not clear that it was in conjunction with cranking, in which case it may be a wiring problem. Check the voltage at the coil increases when the switch is moved to start.

 

Not always 'Easy', especially when you are reaching across with one hand to feel for Compression,
And trying to bump the starter solenoid with a jumper wire with the other!

Sprawled out across the engine like a big vulture pecking at the dead engine!

Anyway, you MUST find COMPRESSION STROKE.
Finger over the hole and 'Bump' the starter is the easiest way,
Since your Piston is coming up to TDC and the Balancer is showing TDC,
Your balancer probably isn't lying to you, they sometimes do.

Once you find COMPRESSION STROKE, where the piston is coming up and making pressure, STOP!

Use something to find TDC in the spark plug hole,

This should be TDC of compression, the piston all the way at the top,
Where the ignition fires and the piston starts back down on the "POWER" stroke,

That is were you want to locate the distributor #1 terminal and rotor at.

Think of it this way, SUCK-SQUEEZE-BANG/POWER-BLOW

That's
INTAKE STROKE (Suck) 1/2 Turn of the crankshaft, Piston Traveling DOWN, from top to bottom,

COMPRESSION STROKE (Squeeze) 1/2 Turn of the crankshaft, Piston traveling UP, from bottom to top,

For those keeping count,
That's one full rotation of the crankshaft in those two strokes, but only 1/2 turn of the camshaft/distributor. The crankshaft sprocket is 1/2 the size of the top camshaft sprocket, so one rotation of the crank is only 1/2 rotation of the cam/distributor.

BANG! (Power Stroke)
That's where the ignition fires, fuel burns, piston is forced DOWN 1/2 turn, from top to bottom by expanding heated gasses,

BLOW (Exhaust Stroke),
Piston travels from the bottom of the cylinder to the top expelling hot gasses,

For those keeping count, that is the SECOND TDC of the crankshaft, but only ONE revolution of the camshaft/distributor.

Then it all starts again,
SUCK, SQUEEZE, (one turn, you want ignition here) BANG, BLOW,(one turn)
SUCK, SQUEEZE, (one turn. you want ignition here) BANG, BLOW,(one turn)
SUCK ....

What we thing you have done is get the distributor in at the top of EXHAUST STROKE, 180 degrees of DISTRIBUTOR ROTATION out from where it should be.

Once you visualize the pistons NOT firing every revolution, then this is a snap.
A VERY GOOD argument for cranking on a dead engine until you understand how the

This is what knocks so many people out when they do this, and why I don't recommend most people change distributors unless they absolutely have to...

-------------------

You CAN try this,
Get your rotor pointing at the #1 terminal mark on the distributor housing,
Pull the distributor up,
Turn the crankshaft ONE TURN, come back to TDC,
Then drop the distributor again.

Remember to back the rotor up about one terminal space (Counter Clockwise) and catch a camshaft tooth from there.

The rotor will move nearly a full terminal space as the spiral cut gear engages the camshaft, you have to compensate for this.

Remember to turn the engine TWO REVOLUTIONS once the distributor is dropped back in, come back to TDC after the SECOND REVOLUTION,
Check the rotor, if it's pointing at #1, the distributor got on the camshaft teeth correctly.

Try and start the engine from there,
Make sure you have fuel in the carb or use a little starting fluid.
It should just about fire right up.

-----------------

If the rotor is only SLIGHTLY off #1 you can move the distributor housing to make the rotor point at the #1 mark you made.

If the rotor is a ways off, then lift the distributor, Try again to back the rotor up a little ways and try for a different tooth on the camshaft gear.
(you probably have TDC of Compression, so no need to turn the crank until AFTER you drop the distributor again)

After you have reset the distributor,
Remember to turn the engine crankshaft over TWO TIMES, and check the rotor.
This gives the oil pump drive a chance to seat, and you continue to come back to TDC OF COMPRESSION if you turn the engine two times for a check and another try if necessary...

 

One of the things I have never understood, is why/how people spin an engine after installing a new timing set.

I mean you align the marks when the new chain is installed. No reason to turn the crank.

You install the cover. No reason to rotate engine.

You install the balancer and pulleys, again, no reason to spin engine.

You stab the distributor. No reason to rotate engine.

How do so many people get 180° out of time when changing a timing set?
I don't get it...:rtft:

 

I do it, to check to see if anything is binding...
Make sure the chain is tracking straight.
I'm up on things enough to turn TWO FULL REVOLUTIONS to bring it back to TDC of COMPRESSION again so the distributor will drop right in!

I also spin the crank during preoiling to make sure all the lifters/cam lobes got oil.

Again, ALWAYS TWICE and back to TDC of Compression...

 

I can agree with that, but when I change a timing set, I pour STP on the gears before I button up, then down the distributor hole before stabbing the dist. Because of this, I don't pre-oil. Sorry for the hijack OP.

 

Well I rotated it one more rev (Comp stroke) and installed the dist. turns out I wasn't on the exhaust stroke. It puffed out of the carb. So again I wonder if i'm flooding the carb trying to start it.

 

oh and I do have a remote starter. I flipped the rotor again and it acted like it wasnted to fire up but... NO BANG BANG!

 

Have you been sticking your thumb over the plug hole to verify compression?
You haven't specifically verified TDC compression in my mind from reading your posts.

You HAVE to get this right... Then you can forget about it and move on.

 

yes I have put my thumb over the hole. I feel the sucking then pressure. I'm stumped. So I am pulling the valve cover to make sure because I have aligned everything as JeepHammer said and not sure what is the deal. I pulled a spark plug and made sure it has spark. again carb is brand new never adjusted. I called a mechanic locally and he said that the MSD dist doesn't work with a 4 barrel carb in a jeep and I should go back to stock and that timing isn't that important compared to a newer car. Now I don't know that much but I know enough that he was so far off.

 

I called a mechanic locally and he said that the MSD dist doesn't work with a 4 barrel carb in a jeep and I should go back to stock

to quote Bo Diddley "das about the biggest load o'rubbish I ever did heard...."

Wish I had 10 bucks for everyone here on this Forum running that setup every day.

Hope you didn't have to pay very much for that "info".

 

LOLOLOL. Agreed, not much of a mechanic that gave that advice.

Edit: Dude, your timing is off, plain and simple. If you have fire, and there's fuel, then the only other thing you need is the fire at the correct time. If it's not firing at the correct time, and from your description of a puff out of the carb, it's not, then you don't have the distributor in correctly. Might be a tooth off or so, but that's where your problem is.

Here is how to time it without the engine running, ASSuming everything else is "right": (and by 'everything else' I mean the balancer hasn't slipped, all the ignition components are okay, the cam is in right, etc)

Get it to TDC on the compression stroke.

Get a spark tester. You can use a plug that's grounded and being held with a pair of rubber handled pliers if you want, but you'll need an extra pair of hands for that. I would not recommend holding a plug that is being fired by an MSD box.

Put the #1 plug wire on it, and clamp it to ground.

Now, move the crank to where you want the timing set. Try 10 degrees to start with. BTDC (before TDC)

Okay, loosen your distributor just enough that you can move it but it's not totally loose. (e.g., there is some pressure on it so it won't slip when you let go of it)

NOW: Turn the key to RUN. Move the distributor SLOWLY whichever way it takes to make that spark tester spark. STOP. Lock the distributor down. Fire it up. If it won't fire up now, it ain't because you don't have the timing correct, at least by the marks on the balancer.

 

I'm pulling the timing cover because another jeep guy came over and verified that I was TDC but the valves were off. So it makes me believe that the worn timing chain caused problems. I did line up the 2 dots before removing the old one but at this point with days of playing with the distributor I need to start from scratch. I still have the pulley's off. I have read over and over what was said and it leaves me to having to check the timing/woodruff keys are right.

 

any words of advise to make sure this edelbrock gear set is right? I used the dot and not the square or triangle. cam faced 6 o'clock-crank 12 o'clock.

 

OK, on to the next 'TEST', which has nothing to do with ignition...

Since you have verified the balancer is mostly accurate,
We are going to use that to try and figure out your camshaft timing.

FIND TDC OF COMPRESSION... This is your starting point.
Remove the valve cover over #1 cylinder so you can see the rocker arms.
Both valves should be closed right now...

ONE WAY to see Rocker movement in it's slightest form without having to buy a dial indicator and base...
IS to tape a long soda straw to the rocker arm.
The longer the straw, the better since any movement of the rocker will make the soda straw magnify the movement.

Since we are starting a TDC of compression, We KNOW the valves are both closed.

Rotate the crank shaft 180 degrees (1/2 Turn) and you should see the EXHAUST VALVE start to open... and should be FULLY OPEN by the time you go much past 1/2 Turn.

As the crank continues to turn, and you come to TDC of EXHAUST STROKE
(Coming up on one full revolution from TDC Compression)
BOTH YOUR VALVES SHOULD BE OPEN SLIGHTLY!

We are going to look for 'Overlap' in the camshaft timing, and where it's located expressed as crankshaft degrees...

Overlap happens just as the exhaust valve closes, the intake valve opens also, letting the Momentum of the outgoing hot exhaust gasses SUCK IN some extra Intake fuel/air mixture...

The Exhaust Valve should be CLOSING, but still open a little,
The INTAKE VALVE should be OPENING, but not fully open.

This is usually VERY short duration in degrees on the crankshaft,
And if it's not EXACTLY LOCATED at TDC at the end of Exhaust Stroke/Beginning of Intake Stroke, then your camshaft isn't timed properly.

Since we have a TDC mark that is mostly accurate, and with soda straws or dial indicators on the rockers, you can PRECISELY located the timing and see if your camshaft is out of time with the crankshaft.

SO!,
If you can turn the engine, see BOTH intake and exhaust valves open at the same time when you cross from TDC Exhaust to begining of Intake, your camshaft is probably correct.

You are looking for anywhere from 60 degrees BEFORE TDC to 15 degrees BEFORE TDC for the intake to start opening,
And anywhere around 15 AFTER TDC to 60 after TDC for the exhaust valve to be fully closed,
BUT! The overlap will be CENTERED OVER TDC, so if your dials or straws were EVEN when you started, they should be even and open during TDC Exhaust...

-----------------------------------------------------------------

REPLACING THE TIMING SET....

Once Ignition was VERIFIED,
The timing set was next in the list since you changed it.

Most timing sets have two or three keyway cuts in the lower sprocket.
What's probably happened is you got the wrong key way.

Normally when you do a timing set, you find TDC of the piston,
(Doesn't matter 'Stroke' is Irrelevant when the timing set is off the engine)

Mock/Trial fitting.

Just find TDC by turning the crank,

Then you put the top sprocket on the camshaft WITHOUT the chain.

If the top sprocket has more than one mark, that complicates things, but they usually DO NOT have more than one timing mark on them.

Turn the camshaft until that timing mark is facing DIRECTLY DOWN,
Use a ruler between the center line of the camshaft & crankshaft to determine the position of that mark.

When the top sprocket is facing DIRECTLY DOWN (6 o'clock position),

Rotate the bottom sprocket among it's timing marks until you find the one that faces directly UP (12 o'clock position).

When you find the proper marks on the sprockets, MARK THEM,
Take the sprockets off the engine and trail fit the chain on them.
See if the marks you picked will line up vertically with the exact center of the sprockets on a straight edge laid on top of them.

If they do, then you probably have the correct timing marks.

Make sure you don't slip a tooth while installing!