[Cwilliams563]

Couldn’t come up with an exact answer in the FAQ’s for buying.

Hey guys new to this forum, just sold my liberty and looking for a 4 door Wrangler. My buddy has a nice 2012 Rubicon and he said not to buy one older than that due to many engine issues.

Curious your thoughts. I have around $15,000-20,000 to spend and want something reliable. I have seen some up around 2013 lifted with 35” tires and wheels, which I’d like a lift already on it, bumpers, lights and all that.

Seen some nice ones from 07-09 for around 15-18K. Most in my price range have 75K-140 Mi. Plus. Is there a certain year I should stay away from or any particulars?

Thank you in advance.

 

[JoonHoss]

So I'm guessing your buddy w/ the '12 didn't tell you about the bad cylinder head issue which plagued the '12-'13models then?

I'm not a fanboy or hater of either alliteration of the JKU.

It's true, the 07-08 had some issues w/ oil consumption, but many also have hundreds of thousands of miles worry-free.

Around here, 15-20K is NOT a price range you can find a '12-newer JKU for. Hell, that's barely the market for an 07-11

Many will advise against purchasing one with mods. I tend to disagree but only if the mods are what you want. I agree it makes no sense to pay extra for things changed that. You yourself will change too, but generally, if it's modded like you want, (or are fine with), it will save you money if previously modded correctly.

Hoss

 

[cranbiz]

If the head was replaced, then I would have no problems with a 2012-2013. The warranty was increased to cover it. 10 years or 150,000 miles.

My head was replaced around 25K and I'm now at 100K. I have had 75K of trouble free miles on the new head.

 

[Geoskier9]

I have a love/hate relationship with my rig at the moment. Given my experience, reliable is not a word I would use to describe my wrangler in the slightest, but I know that isn’t everyone’s experience. All I know is my ‘13 seems to have its hood up at 2-3 times per week.

 

[biggn235]

My buddy has a nice 2012 Rubicon and he said not to buy one older than that due to many engine issues.

That's hilarious, he probably has the worst year for engine issues in a JK. I would rather have a 2011 over a 2012 if the service history on the 2012 wasn't fully documented, mainly because of the head issues.

When I was shopping for my Rubicon I specifically avoided 12-13. Ended up with a 14 and had oil pressure problems due to bad oil pressure sensor and oil pump (another well known issue of the early 3.6s).

Regardless of what year JK you buy, be prepared to work on it at some point. The worst thing about my Jeep is the Chrysler engine.

 

[cranbiz]

Y'all know the 3.8 L hasn't got a great track record either. Then couple the automatic 42RLE with the 3.8 L, you have a dog.

The need to regear an 07-11 is more important with that drive train on larger than stock tires.

 

[JoonHoss]

Y'all know the 3.8 L hasn't got a great track record either...

22 years worth of minivan owners might disagree



Hoss

 

[fumbles]

I’ve been having a good experience with a 2010 jku w/3.5” lift on 35s-manual. Had 104k miles-bought it for 17,900. I’ve proactively replaced/upgraded some things but nothing has actually crapped out yet in 25k miles. With the exception of me needing to clean mud out of the starter.

 

[rsurran]

We had rear brake issues on a road trip from Virginia to Colorado. We have a 2013 JK Sport with 80k miles. It didn’t leave us by the side of the road but it cost us $1300 at a dealer in Colorado. The front brakes were fine. Then we heard JK’s brake system causes more wear on the rear than front. If you are aware and keep checking the rear pads it shouldn’t bite you.

 

[biggn235]

Y'all know the 3.8 L hasn't got a great track record either. Then couple the automatic 42RLE with the 3.8 L, you have a dog.

The need to regear an 07-11 is more important with that drive train on larger than stock tires.

Everyone knows they are a dog, but the OP is asking about reliability. Late model 3.8s are more reliable than early model 3.6s in my opinion.

 

[Kev M]

Everyone knows they are a dog, but the OP is asking about reliability. Late model 3.8s are more reliable than early model 3.6s in my opinion.

That's silly. The head issue is a one and done thing. Get a 12 today and it's probably already fixed and either way it's still under warranty.

Our 3.6 Pentastar motors have been perfect.

The 2012 in the WK2 doesn't burn a literal DROP of oil in 8k+ oil changes (@ 85k miles so far).

The 2016 JKU is the same at even longer intervals but only 38k so far.

Still they seem like superbly built motors.

 

[biggn235]

That's silly. The head issue is a one and done thing. Get a 12 today and it's probably already fixed and either way it's still under warranty.

Our 3.6 Pentastar motors have been perfect.

The 2012 in the WK2 doesn't burn a literal DROP of oil in 8k+ oil changes (@ 85k miles so far).

The 2016 JKU is the same at even longer intervals but only 38k so far.

Still they seem like superbly built motors.

No, warning someone of the multiple issues of the early 3.6s is not silly.

"Probably already fixed" is not good advice, it is terrible advice. The 2016 you are referring to is not an early 3.6 like we have been discussing, just like a 2011 is not an early 3.8. Therefore it does not apply to this topic.

Head issues on early Pentastars? Check. Infamous ticking associated with worn out rockers that can destroy the cam if not addressed immediately? Check. Broken/leaking oil filter/cooler housings? Check. These are just the few off the top of my head that are widespread on early 3.6s.

I would hate to see what other cars you have if you think early Pentastars are superbly built.

 

[Kev M]

No, warning someone of the multiple issues of the early 3.6s is not silly.

"Probably already fixed" is not good advice, it is terrible advice. The 2016 you are referring to is not an early 3.6 like we have been discussing, just like a 2011 is not an early 3.8. Therefore it does not apply to this topic.

Head issues on early Pentastars? Check. Infamous ticking associated with worn out rockers that can destroy the cam if not addressed immediately? Check. Broken/leaking oil filter/cooler housings? Check. These are just the few off the top of my head that are widespread on early 3.6s.

I would hate to see what other cars you have if you think early Pentastars are superbly built.

Oh brother. Back off on the attitude.

Yes you are being silly. Not in mentioning those potential issues but by being alarmist about them.

The early Pentastars that had head issues failed early in their life cycles (as in generally by 10-20k). That is why they are probably all fixed by now. Regardless it's a known issue and the warranty was extended to 10 years/150k miles so even if this pops up on a used one tomorrow or the tick (since the valve train issue was isolated to those early models as well) it will be handled.

On the leaking oil filter housings it probably helps if you don't let a gorilla haul on it. But a little finesse or a torque wrench go a long way.

As for your snide closing remark, I dunno but being in the repair/service industry for almost 3 decades now what haven't I seen? I can't say what you do all day but I spend hours a day deep in motors and drive trains from all sorts of manufacturers.

I'll take our Pentastars any day compared to a lot of motors out there today.

 

[biggn235]

Oh brother. Back off on the attitude.

Yes you are being silly. Not in mentioning those potential issues but by being alarmist about them.

The early Pentastars that had head issues failed early in their life cycles (as in generally by 10-20k). That is why they are probably all fixed by now. Regardless it's a known issue and the warranty was extended to 10 years/150k miles so even if this pops up on a used one tomorrow or the tick (since the valve train issue was isolated to those early models as well) it will be handled.

On the leaking oil filter housings it probably helps if you don't let a gorilla haul on it. But a little finesse or a torque wrench go a long way.

As for your snide closing remark, I dunno but being in the repair/service industry for almost 3 decades now what haven't I seen? I can't say what you do all day but I spend hours a day deep in motors and drive trains from all sorts of manufacturers.

I'll take our Pentastars any day compared to a lot of motors out there today.

Haha, I see you are upset that someone disagrees with you. You are also clearly biased. In your world if being realistic is considered "silly" then I guess I am a clown.

You are still throwing around "probably" a lot. Terrible advice for someone to say "it's probably fine" rather than "here are the known and well documented, factual issues".

Early Pentastar extended warranties are going to start running out next year if they aren't already out due to mileage. The warranty has little, if any, value to someone shopping for a used 12 today. Ridiculous to keep suggesting this is some catch-all fail safe and that the issues don't still exist.

And no, the early oil filter housings are not limited to breaking just because of over tightening. A lot of them are leaking from the brass fittings on the back where the sensor threads are pressed into the plastic, and from the O-rings that are supposed to seal to the block. Not something that can be avoided with arbitrary "finesse".

Am I saying 12s and 13s are completely worthless and should be avoided at all cost? No. Am I saying they need to be looked at with extra attention before buying and that the potential buyer needs to be aware of these widespread issues? Yes. Am I willing to entertain the statement that they are more reliable than later 3.8s (like the original question from the OP)? Absolutely not.

 

[Kev M]

Haha, I see you are upset that someone disagrees with you. You are also clearly biased. In your world if being realistic is considered "silly" then I guess I am a clown.

You are still throwing around "probably" a lot. Terrible advice for someone to say "it's probably fine" rather than "here are the known and well documented, factual issues".

Early Pentastar extended warranties are going to start running out next year if they aren't already out due to mileage. The warranty has little, if any, value to someone shopping for a used 12 today. Ridiculous to keep suggesting this is some catch-all fail safe and that the issues don't still exist.

And no, the early oil filter housings are not limited to breaking just because of over tightening. A lot of them are leaking from the brass fittings on the back where the sensor threads are pressed into the plastic, and from the O-rings that are supposed to seal to the block. Not something that can be avoided with arbitrary "finesse".

Am I saying 12s and 13s are completely worthless and should be avoided at all cost? No. Am I saying they need to be looked at with extra attention before buying and that the potential buyer needs to be aware of these widespread issues? Yes. Am I willing to entertain the statement that they are more reliable than later 3.8s (like the original question from the OP)? Absolutely not.

You're still being silly...

You're being alarmist and making a mountain out of a molehill.

If the heads haven't failed by 10 years and 150k miles it's not a worry.

But ok, the op is now aware and can make up his own mind.

Me I'll continue to vote with my dollars and it won't be on any 3.8s.

 

[cranbiz]

OK, stop this now. Personal attacks are prohibited here and both of you are really close to that line.

Agree to disagree and be done with it.

 

[biggn235]

Couldn't come up with an exact answer in the FAQ's for buying.

Hey guys new to this forum

I would also suggest joining some other forums that are JK specific and talking to those guys. This forum has been dying for some time and you are going to get a lot more replies that are actually helpful elsewhere.

 

[Cwilliams563]

I appreciate the responses and opinions so far. Not as cut and dry as I’d hoped lol.

So the 2012-2013 have the extended 150k engine warranty for any owners, not just the original? Just if something happens to it or will it be replaced proactively if still within mileage?

 

[Geoskier9]

The truth is almost all wranglers are flawed or prone to flaws. If you aren’t already a shade tree mechanic, you will be in short order of buying a high mileage jk. Pick a rig that you like because you like it; you’ll have to work on it eventually either way. Be prepared to sweat, bleed, yell, and cuss at it. It really makes you love it more. That’s why we say “it’s a Jeep thing”

I can’t speak to the head warranty, it’s the one common issue I haven’t had. I would assume it stays with the vehicle. I would also think you could look up if it has been addressed on a vehicle or interest via VIN lookup.

 

[Nessquick1]

Did the early pentastars have pistons? Or not as much?