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LOCKED UP

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Instead of dual batteries? I don't know much about charging systems so I don't know what you'd need to do to run dual alternators or anything.... feel free to educate me :D

I bring it up because if possible I think this might be a good alternative to dual batteries. Upside would be so long as one is running you get juice, if both are running I bet they cold supply more juice than most of us could use up. Downside would be if the motor dies you are depending one the single battery and how wold you know if one alt stopped working?
 
i think if you use two alternators. you should use dual batteries also
 
A lot of guys run dual alternators when running massive sound systems. The purpose of a battery is to start a car. Once that car is running the alternator supplies all the power to the accessories and also charges the battery. Dual batteries are mostly used for winching, others like having a secondary so they can listen to the radio, use an inverter, ect with the engine off while the primary is used to start the jeep.

Before you think you need 2 alts figure out how many amps is being pulled with all your added on stuff. I recently upgraded from a stock 66amp alternator to a 140amp alt. I have plenty of juice to run a 1200+watt sound system, high beams on(100watt), blower motor on high, AC on high, hazards on, wipers and still enough to run a taurus cooling fan on high without a problem.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
mp3coupe said:
A lot of guys run dual alternators when running massive sound systems. The purpose of a battery is to start a car. Once that car is running the alternator supplies all the power to the accessories and also charges the battery. Dual batteries are mostly used for winching....
See that makes me think that it would be logical to have dual Alts for winching. A winch is basicly just a giant accessory ... Course then again if the car dies you don't have the spare batt to fall back on.

I've heard that most of the hi output alt's don't output as well at idle so I figured dual alts would combat that.

I'm not dead set on anything ... I just want to hear what people have to say. :thumbsup:
 
you do not want the winch load going directly to the alternator.thats not how it works.the alternators simply provide power to constantly running accessories that are creating a load on the system.

unless you are running some crazy sound system chances are you don't need two alternators.

as for the onboard welder and a second alternator.most have them wired directly to the welder itself and nothing else.also they have it wired either with a clutch (like your AC compressor) or have it wired so it can be switched off while not in use.
 
LOCKED UP said:
I've heard that most of the hi output alt's don't output as well at idle so I figured dual alts would combat that.
That all depends what it comes from. From the early 90s to present, cars have several computers and accessories that require a lot of power. These cars also have overdrive therfore the RPMs are much lower. These alternators were designed to put out a lot of juice in cruising rpms.

What year is your rig?
 
Discussion starter · #8 · (Edited)
wil badger said:
you do not want the winch load going directly to the alternator.thats not how it works.the alternators simply provide power to constantly running accessories that are creating a load on the system.

unless you are running some crazy sound system chances are you don't need two alternators.

as for the onboard welder and a second alternator.most have them wired directly to the welder itself and nothing else.also they have it wired either with a clutch (like your AC compressor) or have it wired so it can be switched off while not in use.
I'd think where the load goes would depend on how it is wired huh? I mean, currently, if I winch too long the battery would eventaully die out, then the alternator would have to try to charge it back up. With dual alts I'd think it would just speed up the recharging process. But what do I know:D

My rig is a 93 with a 98 4.0.

I'm running a $20 stereo but will have a CB and a few lights here and there, nothing special .. but I'd like to run a winch and be able to run it at full pull for as long as I want too.

I've had dual batt setups in other rigs and was pleased with the results so I'm not against em... I just thought this might be better...
 
Depending on the manufacturer of the winch, full pull ratings are close to, if not more than 300A. No alternator, nor 2 alternators will ever keep up to that.

Simply put, your winch will draw off your battery, that is what they do, and you cannot get around it. You may take some of the load off the battery, but there will still be a draw on it at full load. I think you are getting concerned about a non-issue. If you have charging issues, get a higher output alt. There is alot of unnecessary fab involved in running dual alts.

Dual batteries, or a battery upgrade will give you more winching performance.
 
Once that car is running the alternator supplies all the power to the accessories and also charges the battery
That is really not true. The vehicle actually runs off the battery. The alternater keeps the battery charged. You always hear people say to check the alternater you can unhook the battery while the vehicle is running and it should stay running if your alternater is good. This was true way back when vehicles had generaters. Now they will die whether the alternater is good or not.
 
TSEJEEPERS said:
Once that car is running the alternator supplies all the power to the accessories and also charges the battery
That is really not true. The vehicle actually runs off the battery. The alternater keeps the battery charged. You always hear people say to check the alternater you can unhook the battery while the vehicle is running and it should stay running if your alternater is good. This was true way back when vehicles had generaters. Now they will die whether the alternater is good or not.
If you used that answer for the A6 exam(ASE) you would get that question wrong:)
Why does most aftermarket stuff rate voltage at 14.4 volts when the battery only puts out 12v
What is the first thing you notice when you jumpstart a car with a dead battery?? The motor bogs down while you hear the alternator winding up.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=94049&ran=144753
 
If that is true then why does the wire that comes off your battery (positive) feed directly into your power distrubition center?
 
TSEJEEPERS said:
If that is true then why does the wire that comes off your battery (positive) feed directly into your power distrubition center?
Well without that cable from the battery to the distrubition center you would lose your radio presets,computer memory and everything else that required 12v with the engine off.

This link here is about car audio... it explains it well.
http://www.caraudiomag.com/specialfeatures/0207cae_audio_system_power/

Knowing What's Watt
The biggest mistake made by many consumers (and some installers) is failing to beef up the charging system enough to handle the demands of additional audio and video equipment. Determining how much more electrical current you need depends on the equipment you install. Understanding the electrical system of your car will help you determine how much additional electrical current you need. It all starts with the turn of your car key.

Turning the key in the ignition begins the process of cranking the motor. Your car's battery supplies the electricity needed to get things going. Once started, the car's electrical burden shifts to the alternator. An alternator is a device that uses the engine's mechanical power (supplied by the alternator belt) to create alternating electrical current (AC). The alternating electrical current is rectified (changed) into direct current (DC) which is needed for all the devices in the vehicle that require electricity. The alternator also serves to recharge the car's battery after power is used during the cranking process.

Everything works perfectly so long as the power requirements of the vehicle don't exceed the alternator's power-producing capacity. If the power load is too much for the alternator, then power will be pulled from the battery. If the alternator and battery can't meet all the power needs, then the voltage available to power all the car's electrical devices is diminished. As we learned earlier, when voltage decreases, current flow increases, and current flow creates heat (due to resistance) in components. This is why a prolonged loud bass play sometimes will damage components if the charging system is inadequate.

Alternators are the fastest power source, meaning they can respond to power needs more quickly than the battery or even a capacitor.

Batteries are rated by the amount of cold-cranking amperes they produce. A small import car is likely to have a battery rated at 500 CCA. A large battery would have a CCA rating of 1,000. How big a battery should you install? Most experts say get one as the available space will allow. If your vehicle's charging system is significantly short on amperes, then adding a bigger battery will only create additional problems. Adding a second battery is an option, but is not recommended for a variety of reasons.

"I think multiple batteries are a bad idea for vehicles that are daily drivers," says Jeff Triplett, director of technical services for Memphis Car Audio. "A second battery has to be charged by the alternator just like the primary battery, so you're just creating more work for the alternator. If the motor is off and the system is running off battery power, the multiple batteries are OK. However, daily drivers simply have little to gain from multiple batteries."
Another strike against having multiple batteries is the safety issue. Batteries can be dangerous if improperly installed, so great care should be taken if you are thinking of putting in a battery in a non-stock location. Consult a qualified installer if you feel you must have a second or third extra battery.
 
TSEJEEPERS said:
If that is true then why does the wire that comes off your battery (positive) feed directly into your power distrubition center?
because electrically it's the same as hooking the Batt terminal from the alternator directly to the PDC. electricity will follow the path of least resistance. since both the output of th alt and PDC are hooked up to the same terminal at the battery, current from the alt will just jump over to the PDC directly, it won't enter the battery and then come back out the same terminal to PDC. it works like a Y connection in a water hose. some of the current will go down one path to the PDC to power the running engine and accessories, and whatever is left over will flow into the battery to recharge it. that's because the running systems will only pull as much current as they need to run. say about 55 amps (stereo, headlights, heater, etc all totaled up). your alt can produce say 94 amps at max. for the most part at cruising speeds the alt is producing max, but it does drop off at idle. anyway if the alt is producing max then 55 amps will go through the PDC to power everything, and 39 amps will go to the battery and recharge it. the only time you will draw power off the battery while the engine is running is when you exceed the output of the alternator. then the system will start pulling power out of the batt in order to compensate.
 
mp3coupe said:
I have plenty of juice to run a 1200+watt sound system, high beams on(100watt), blower motor on high, AC on high, hazards on, wipers and still enough to run a taurus cooling fan on high without a problem.
For when the following scenario takes place:
  • You break down in the mohave in august
  • its getting dark
  • its ridiculously hot outside
  • it's raining locust
  • you happen to have a locust repelling audio track burnt to cd, and it needs to be really loud.
 
eelson said:
Fixed it for you. Current actually takes all paths, with most of it taking the path of least resistance.

But overall great anwser. :thumbsup: You are like the local electrical guru for JF.
lol. that's true. "least resistance" can get you in trouble when talking about electricity. here i was refering to the curent flowing directly to the PDC instead of through the battery first. the actual resistance of the paths has nothing to do with it in this case. i should have said it would take the shortest path. :thumbsup:
 
TSEJEEPERS said:
Once that car is running the alternator supplies all the power to the accessories and also charges the battery

If you used that answer for the A6 exam(ASE) you would get that question wrong:)
Why does most aftermarket stuff rate voltage at 14.4 volts when the battery only puts out 12v
What is the first thing you notice when you jumpstart a car with a dead battery?? The motor bogs down while you hear the alternator winding up.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=94049&ran=144753
I beg to differ! Battery supplies 12v to start engine, pcm monitors batt voltage when it see a load on battery it applies the fields in the alternator to recharge the battery! running voltage is 14volts automotive electronics run from 11volts up to 15volts! any ASE tech should know that electrons don't flow back to the battery on the positive side! An alternators job is only to keep the battery charged from the vehicles loads placed on it! Sorry!
 
Holy thread resurrection batman..................................


Interesting point though.
 
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