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Discussion starter · #23 ·
Was considering the Mastercraft CT, but am now leaning toward the Cooper AT3 for my stock XJ. Sounds like the AT3 will work pretty well, even for those really muddy spots.
The Cooper AT3 works well for moderately muddy areas - based on my experiences with it.

The Mastercraft CT is even better in mud, but the CT isn't as good on highway, and not as good for Winter roads.
 
Thanks the great thread. I was actually considering going to the 30x9.50r15 on my unlifted '04 Rubicon, which is currently shod with Grabber AT2s in LT245/75x16 on the stock 16 x 8 Moab wheels. These AT2s are load range E, which are extremely harsh and I was hoping that the load range C AT2 30x9.50s would be more forgiving, but apparently not from what you said above. Will probably try the Goodrich KOs based on your comments of the soft ride. Do you recommend 15x7 or 15x8 wheels?
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Thanks the great thread. I was actually considering going to the 30x9.50r15 on my unlifted '04 Rubicon, which is currently shod with Grabber AT2s in LT245/75x16 on the stock 16 x 8 Moab wheels. These AT2s are load range E, which are extremely harsh and I was hoping that the load range C AT2 30x9.50s would be more forgiving, but apparently not from what you said above. Will probably try the Goodrich KOs based on your comments of the soft ride. Do you recommend 15x7 or 15x8 wheels?
Grabber AT2 load C rode really rough for me. The load E would ride even worse.

For soft ride from a tire that is tough enough and good on and off road, I recommend BFG AT, Hercules AT2, or Cooper AT3. Any of those in load C are tough enough and ride comfortably soft. They also handle and corner better on bumpy roads because they soak up bumps easiky.

I have owned BFG AT, Grabber AT2, and Cooper AT3 in 30 x 9.5 R15C. So I speak from experience. I have not owned Hercules AT2, but it has same carcass as Cooper AT3, and same or similar tread compound. So I assume the Hercules AT2 rides same as Cooper AT3.​

A stiffer tire (like Grabber AT2) more easily bounces off the pavement on big bumps, which makes very sketchy cornering on bumpy roads.

I recommend you either run 30 x 9.5 R15 on 15 x 7 stock wheels, or 31 x 10.5 R15 on 15 x 8 stock wheels. Either will fit your stock TJ Rubicon perfectly.

Aluminum wheels will give a softer ride and better gas mileage (less unsprung weight & rotating mass).

Rubicons have miserably stiff shocks. Replace them with Monroe Sensitrac and your ride will greatly improve.

If you're willing to spend a few hundred dollars, replace the stiff stock swaybar with a Currie Antirock (adjustable) sway bar. A softer (adjustable) ride results for when left or right front tire hits a bump (as opposed to both tires hitting same bump at same time - like speed bump).

However, AR is intended for 2" lift or more. I had an AR on my LJ Rubi with 3" lift, and it was great and an easy bolt on install.

I now have an XJ with somewhere from 1.25" or 1.5" lift. It was almost an easy bolt on install, except I had to trim the adjustment rods (that control arm angle) shorter and then add more threads to the rods.​
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
Each of the things I recommended in prior post helps ride quality. Together they help a lot.

Do the cheaper easier things first. Save the sway bar for last, if you do the sway bar at all.

The advice in prior post is for stock height. If lifted, a different shock choice might be needed (like possibly Rancho XL9000).
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
A few more tips related to weight, suspension, and ride quality...

If you add a winch plate and winch, the weight will soften the ride of front suspension considerably. However, it might make the front to heavy for 30 x 9.5 tires to float on (drive on) sand. So with a winch or aftermarket front bumper (heavier than stock), you might need to go to 31 x 10.5 tires to have enough flotation for driving on sand.

If you have a winch and an aftermarket front bumper, you definitely would need a 10.5" wide tire, or maybe even an 11.5" to drive on sand without sinking.

I don't recommend adding an aftermarket bumper and winch. The combination is to much for suspension and makes a Jeep a fat nose heavy pig, IMO. I would add either an aftermarket bumper, or a winch mount and winch. In my case, I added a winch mount and a winch.

I didn't add a winch to get a softer ride. I did it because I need a winch, but a softer ride will result.​

The above applies to any light 1/4 SUV or 1/4 ton Jeep that uses R15 tires (YJ, XJ, TJ). If you have a ZJ or LJ (even stock) you are already to heavy for 9.5" wide tires to float on sand, and already need 10.5" wide tires if driving on sand is important to you. If sand isn't important to you, then 9.5" wide tires are still fine with more weight on vehicle.

If you add some weight to soften ride, add useful gear/tools, but don't add to much! You will burn more gas, which gets you farther from a practical daily driver and closer to an off road Jeep (assuming you have appropriate tires for the increased weight). If you only add a little weight (and useful gear in the process) you can strike a useful balance (but you might need wider tires to support it on sand).

If getting a winch... I suggest a Superwinch 9500 SR (synthetic rope) winch (weight 65 lbs) because it's enough weight without being to much, and it's a great winch. For a winch of this weight, I suggest 31 x 10.5 tires on 15 x 8 stock wheels to give adequate tire flotation on sand, if you will be driving on sand.

I just bought a Warn M8000-S winch (55 lbs) for my XJ. I'm satisfied with the relatively light 55 lbs weight with my 30 x 9.5 tires since I still have a stock bumper with a relatively light 40 lbs Backbone winch mount and tow hook system. With the total 90 lbs extra weight, I will be pushing the limits of my 30 x 9.5 tires (on 15 x 7 wheels) to keep me afloat on sand. I think it'll be OK on sand (with enough airing down), but if not, I'll have to get 31 x 10.5 tires (and 15 x 8 wheels). Time will tell.

A winch needs to be rated at least 8000 lbs to reliably pull you out of most muddy situations.

An 8K rating is minimum. It's strong enough for me, and I prefer the lighter weight of the Warn M8000-S.

A 9.5K rating is an ideal amount of overkill that guarantees it will pull you out of anything. However, the Superwinch 9.5 SR is heavier (65 lbs) than I want with 9.5" wide tires, but is the lightest 9.5K rated winch I know of, and would be light enough with 10.5" wide tires. I'm still trying/wanting to use 9.5" wide tires, which is why I didn't get the Superwinch.

It's my personal bias, but I think on a Jeep Warn M8000-S or Superwinch 9.5 SR are the only winches that make sense. The M8000-S for light(ish) Jeeps, and SW 9.5 SR for heavier Jeeps.

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If you add an aftermarket rear bumper with a trailer hitch you gain a softer ride in the rear (from the bumper weight) and you gain the ability to tow. Since the rear is relatively light, a 9.5" wide rear tire is still adequate for sand.

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Bottom line, adding weight in the form of gear has two benefits, you have more gear/capabilities and a softer ride. The downside is the extra weight reduces gas mileage and weighs your Jeep down making it more difficult to climb steep hills off road, and making it sink more on/in sand, which might necessitate 31 x 10.5 tires.

So is adding weight a good idea? It depends. It's your call.

For stock weight Jeeps, I still love 30 x 9.5 R15 and still think they are best for stock weight daily drivers. If a Jeep is a little heavier than stock (due to gear) a 30 x 9.5 can handle that fine if you don't drive on sand, but if sand driving is important to you, you either need to avoid adding weight, or go ahead and add some gear/weight AND 31 x 10.5 tires.

Lastly, for 30 x 9.5 R15 tires, I recommend 15 x 7 stock Jeep wheels. For 31 x 10.5 R15 tires, I recommend 15 x 8 stock Jeep wheels. Ideally aluminum wheels.
 
Just got the Cooper AT3's in 30 x 9.5 for my stock Cherokee and they worked great for me on mud, dirty steep hills, going over large rocks, etc. also quiet on the road. Only issue I noticed is some bumping in the rear if I was driving a little fast on gravel roads with potholes. This was with my hatch area full of gear so extra weight, and my shocks are original at 120,000 miles. Also noticed my rear bump stops are gone, so perhaps this is the problem (?) since these are slightly taller tires.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
Just got the Cooper AT3's in 30 x 9.5 for my stock Cherokee and they worked great for me on mud, dirty steep hills, going over large rocks, etc. also quiet on the road. Only issue I noticed is some bumping in the rear if I was driving a little fast on gravel roads with potholes. This was with my hatch area full of gear so extra weight, and my shocks are original at 120,000 miles. Also noticed my rear bump stops are gone, so perhaps this is the problem (?) since these are slightly taller tires.
The stock shocks were never good when new, and they wear out by 30K to 40K miles. So your shocks are completely useless. I suggest get some Monroe Sensitrac shocks ASAP.

The stock rear springs are often wearing out by 30K to 50K depending on use. At your mileage, and with worn out shocks, and no bumpstops, you're rear springs are probably ruined. I think you need new rear springs. Get Crown (like Quadratec sells) if you want stock replacements. Crown parts are excellent quality and prices IME. If you want an even better spring and a slight lift, get OME springs.

Obviously having no bump-stops, worn out shocks, probably shot rear springs, and cargo weight is your problem.

I have some new bump-stops front and rear that I'll mail you for free, if you pay for postage. I MIGHT have some used, slightly worn, but still in fairly good shape, FREE rear stock tow package springs I can give you. If my cousing hasn't already grabbed them from my parts pile for his mother-in-law's XJ.
 
BTW, my tire installer recommended 38 PSI, which seemed pretty high to me. That's quite a difference from 28 front and 26 rear. What about when towing? I suppose the 38 may be appropriate then?

Posted by Charley3....
Here are cold tire pressures I find work best: 27 psi front, 24.5 psi rear at air temp around 55F to 60F. If air temp is 67 F to 72F, I want 28 psi front, 25.5 psi rear. If air temp is 79F or higher, I want 28.5 to 29 psi front, 26 to 26.5 psi rear.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
BTW, my tire recommended 38 PSI, which seemed pretty high to me. That's quite a difference from 28 front and 26 rear. What about when towing? I suppose the 38 may be appropriate then?
Add 1 psi to rear tires for every 100 lbs of cargo in rear cargo area. That's an approximation. Adjust from there.

For example, if you had 200 lbs of rear cargo, run 28 psi rear tires, but also pay attention to contact patch, sidewalls, ride quality, and handling; and then adjust psi as necessary.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
I just saw a local XJ with new 30 x 9.5 R15 Multi-Mile Wild Country XTX Sport LT on it.
They are really good looking ATs with a good mix of small and larger tread blocks, smaller and larger voids, and lots of sipes.

This is a new tire design I haven't seen before. Looks good to me. It's available in 30 x 9.5 R15.

Looks like a really good AT tread design to me. Here is the Multi-Mile webpage about it. http://www.multimiletires.com/tires/Detail.aspx?lineid=238&application=SUV-LT

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I have a set of Hankook Dynapro ATMs on my 1993 ZJ and I love them driven in all sorts of terrain and they have yet to let me down even once. This is very important to me mostly due to the fact that I am a Volunteer firefighter and a member of my counties Rescue Squad. So it doesn't matter what it is doing outside when the pager goes off I've got to go. I even drove my the long trip up to upstate New York to visit my family during Christmas last year and was hit by a few snow storms that were bordering blizzards and once again the ATMs took the challenge head on and never failed me. When they eventually wear out I will be buying another set.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
One cool thing about 30 x 9.5 R15 tires is that you can often buy used tires cheap and get good tires for low cost.

This is because Jeepers and Ford Ranger guys often use this tire size for a while, and then lift and buy larger tires later. Then they sell their 30 x 9.5 R15 cheaply. Often they are in good shape with lots of tread left. I've seen some sell with less than 5000 miles on them. I remember one set that only had around 1500 miles on them. More often they'll have 10,000 to 30,000 miles on them, but still good tires.

The price is certainly right. Sometimes you can get nearly new tires for a fraction of the cost of buying new.

Check the classifieds section of this forum, and any Jeep or Ranger forum, and you'll usually find one or more good deals available. Likewise check Ebay and Craiglist for used 30 x 9.5 R15 tires too.

If you use 30 x 9.5 R15 tires, you can sometimes buy slightly used tires for a song. Othertimes moderately used tires. You can save a lot of money on tires this way.
 
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