IMHO it's a good way to go in the event you ever add a winch or other high draw gear your infrastructure will already be started. :thumbsup:

 

If I remember correctly, the one with A/C spins in the opposite direction due to diferent belt setup (2 instead of 1).
As for the alternator goes, I would suggest you read this. Some of it you won't care about but it will teach you some things you don't really know. Alot of smart guys on here.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/been-reading-good-book-jeephammer-833631/#post7724128

Good luck,
Rick

 

Before I just jumped in with what I heard, and thought I remembered reading, I did a little research.
The Powermaster has 80 amps at idle, and 140 at highway speed. (I'm guessing 2000 rpm.

This is a link to there web site.
http://www.powermastermotorsports.com/gm_late_model.html

I'd do some more research before I bought.

Bill

 

Colt 44,
In my experience you should have a standard "GM Style" alternator. These alternators came from the factory in many different output levels for different vehicles. Best part is they all used the same housing. I went to my local alternator shop and they rebuilt my standard 100 Amp Jeep CJ unit with 140 Amp parts like came in Chevy pickup trucks of the same era. A total rebuild and upgraded output all for about $50... You might do some looking around...

 

The 'High Amp' models are just guys on the aftermarket juggling the numbers to make them look stronger.

The 'Factory' rating is the 'Safe Maximum' rating,
While the aftermarket likes to quote the absolute maximum the unit will put out before it self destructs.

Since the rotors, field windings, rectifier, ect. are all the same sizes
(They can't 'Stretch' the case to make more room),
It's just a numbers game.

----------------

With fuel injection,
I would switch to a CS series alternator.
They have more output at low RPM which means more stable current to the fuel injection computer,
And CS has better rectifiers to keep voltage spikes down, voltage spikes are bad for computers.

You will need to use an adapter or a 75-150 Ohm resistor in the excite circuit, where your Delco now has 10-15 ohms.

NAPA has a wiring pigtail adapter so you don't have to cut into your harness, and there are CS units that will fit into your current brackets.

Alternators don't care what direction they spin.
Only the fan matters.

---------------

Now, I'm going to try to explain this...

You have a 'Fusible Link' between you alternator and battery.
Around 35-45 Amps, the fusible link will let go.

Since these vehicles have run 25 to 35 years with the factory fusible link,
Your vehicle has NEVER demanded more than the fusible link can handle,
So you have NEVER drawn more than 35-45 amps.

A 100+ amp alternator simply isn't needed.

I would find a Delco Remy CS series alternator with a reasonable factory output and install it with the adapter and not worry about what the 'Aftermarket' advertisements are saying what you *SHOULD* do...

 

Sounds like good advice. Questions:

First, does NAPA carry the Delco Remy CS alternators?

Where would I get "an adapter or a 75-150 Ohm resistor" for the excite circuit? And once I get it, where does it go?

I assume the NAPA pigtail adapter is to mate the alternator to the existing plug that fits the present alternator?

 

Colt 44,
In my experience you should have a standard "GM Style" alternator. These alternators came from the factory in many different output levels for different vehicles. Best part is they all used the same housing. I went to my local alternator shop and they rebuilt my standard 100 Amp Jeep CJ unit with 140 Amp parts like came in Chevy pickup trucks of the same era. A total rebuild and upgraded output all for about $50... You might do some looking around...

I'm not trying to start any argument. I was under the impression the standard CJ alternator was more like 40 to 60 amps. The rebuild shop in my city told me 94 amps was Max. There are exceptions of course. I looked at a rebuilt Cadillac unit, lots bigger and bolts up different. IIRC it was a little over a hundred amps.
I don't know at what engine rpm that was.

Bill

 

I've always read 60 amps as well.

Jeephammer - Since these vehicles have run 25 to 35 years with the factory fusible link,
Your vehicle has NEVER demanded more than the fusible link can handle,
So you have NEVER drawn more than 35-45 amps.
Now this applies to the vehicles electrical system right? So if accessories were connected right to the battery with their own fuse, then instead of the fusible link being the "draw limiter" it now becomes the added circuits fuse that is the limiter, for that circuit. And as long as the voltage regulator can keep replenishing the batteries voltage there shouldn't be a problem even if the total demand of the vehicle and it's accessories exceeds the 35-45 limit of the fusible link. And if it cannot keep up, that's when a larger alt. would be of benefit.
In other words, as long as the vehicles system and fuse block are the sole source of power, your draw is limited to the fusible links rating. And the only way around that to benefit from a larger alternator is by connecting circuits directly to the battery. Then the battery size becomes the "limiter". Am I understanding correctly? (Electronics was never my strong suit!)

 

No.

The alternator fusible link is between alternator and battery and passes EVERY ELECTRON YOUR ALTERNATOR IS COMMANDED TO PRODUCE FOR THE BATTERY AND VEHICLE OPERATION.

You attach to the battery, your 'Draw' is from the battery,
But the alternator has to keep up with the battery, so no matter where you 'Draw' from, it's all on the alternator to provide.

 

Common Delco alternators have three terminals.
A larger wire ring terminal in the back, that hooks to the battery via a fusible link at the starter relay battery cable terminal.

There are two smaller wires in a side plug.

The smaller of the two is the 'Excite' wire.
It's stiff, it's a resistor wire, depending on year 10-15 Ohm.
That's where the larger value resistor needs to go in place.

The larger of the two wires is the 'Sense' or 'Sample' wire.
It gets a sample of the battery voltage.
Most times it's looped around to the back terminal since that terminal has battery voltage.

The CS will have terminals marked 'P', 'L' 'I or F' 'S',
The 'S' will be the largest of the 4 terminals so it's easy to identify.
That is your 'Sense' or 'Sample' connection, connects to the back of the Alternator at the 'BAT' terminal.

CAN YOU SEE THE 'P L F S' ON TH E PLASTIC OF THIS ALTERNATOR PLUG CONNECTOR?

The 'L' (Lamp) terminal is the 'Excite' wire
(GM uses an 'Idiot' light on the dash, the correct term for that bulb is a 'Lamp')

The 'L' or 'Excite' terminal is always in the middle of the three smaller terminals.
If you look closely at the regulator collar where the plug inserts, the terminals will be marked.

Plugs run between $5 & $15 depending on where you get them,

-------------

The adapter that plugs into your old plug and into the new alternator ran $25 last time I got one from NAPA.
Can't remember the part number off the top of my head.
Plugs right into your old two wire plug and into the new alternator.

-------------------------

The resistor is available from Radio Shack,
75 to 150 Ohm, I usually go on the high size, around 100 or 125 Ohm just to make sure,
They come on cards of 5 for about $1.50

Radio Shack, 100 ohm 1/2W 5% Carbon Film Resistor pk/5
Model: 271-1108 | Catalog #: 271-1108 $1.19

-------------------------------------------------------

WHEN YOU ORDER ADAPTERS FROM NAPA, ORDER AHEAD!
They usually don't have them in stock, so you have to wait on them.

CS 144 Alternator with SQUARE PLUG ADAPTER, NAPA p/n ECH EC82

P/N Part Number: ECH EC80 DOES NOT have the resistor you need to keep the alternator alive, so don't let them give you this one unless you plan to add the little resistor yourself...

----------

CS 130 Alternator with OVAL PLUG,
Can't find the adapter part number or the adapter in NAPA book anymore.

-------------------------------

This is a CS 144 going on where a SI came off.
I'm showing the differences so you know what to expect.

CS 144 is a little larger than a 10-SI,
While a CS 130 is a little smaller.
Believe this or not, it's harder to use a SMALLER alternator than it is a slightly larger one...

SI Front frame centered over shaft if CS-144, The CS-144 will have a longer 'Threaded' ear.

CS-144 LEFT, SI RIGHT,
Mounting foot compairson, overall size, pulleys did interchange.

CS-144 LEFT, 12 SI RIGHT,
Comparing mounting holes, ect from the back.

 

Okay, I'm confused - does the pigtail adapter incorporate the resistor, or will I need to splice that in myself?I can certainly solder in a resistor if I know which wire, but I'd prefer to have this in the form of an adapter, for a neater appearance, if nothing else. [ETA - Disregard this part, I see from re-reading your earlier post that the adapters are apparently available with or without the resistor.]

Also, where would I get a Delco-Remy alternator? Doesn't look like NAPA, AutoZone, Advance or O'Reilly carry Delco.
How would I ask for the equivalent of a CS series (i.e., better low-rpm performance) alteranator from, say, NAPA?

[ETA - I see that Advance sells Remy alternators, but only new ones. Is that = Delco Remy?]

 

Okay, I'm confused - does the pigtail adapter incorporate the resistor, or will I need to splice that in myself?I can certainly solder in a resistor if I know which wire, but I'd prefer to have this in the form of an adapter, for a neater appearance, if nothing else.

[ETA - Disregard this part, I see from re-reading your earlier post that the adapters are apparently available with or without the resistor.]

Also, where would I get a Delco-Remy alternator?
Doesn't look like NAPA, AutoZone, Advance or O'Reilly carry Delco.
How would I ask for the equivalent of a CS series (i.e., better low-rpm performance) alteranator from, say, NAPA?

[ETA - I see that Advance sells Remy alternators, but only new ones. Is that = Delco Remy?]

Virtually all 'Replacement' alternators for GM vehicles are CS series.
Once it's 'Remanufactured', they call them by the store name, 'Power King' or whatever.
It's still a Delco Remy, it's still a CS or SI Series,
Just like the 'Power Master' or what ever you see sold online as '200 AMPS' output.

About any alternator will FLASH to 200 Amps, but it's going to kill it's self doing it...
The 'Correct' rating would be what Delco rated it...
It can sustain that factory rated output for quite some time without issues.
Most times, if it's rated at 75 Amps, it will put out 75 Amps all day long without failing.

Look by APPLICATION.
Larger GM vehicles from the late 80 through the 90s will provide you with a large output alternator for your application.

---------------------------------------

 

So then how is it possible to jump start another car? I'm sure it requires more then 35-45 amps to do that right. It would be no different then my example above of having a high draw accessory connected directly to the battery just as jumper cables would be, would it?

 

Two things come to mind right now, and I'm hoping neither one of them is true...
AND YOU ARE HIJACKING A "HELP ME" THREAD BEFORE THE OP GETS RESOLUTION.

First off,
The 10 Ga. wire from alternator to battery won't carry 200 amps.
you would need a LARGE WELDING CABLE to handle 200 amps for even a short time.

Secondly, the fusible link will melt if you try to draw more than 35-45 amps from the alternator for any long duration of time.

Third, It's called a STORAGE BATTERY for a reason...

The Alternator makes a small amperage charge OVER TIME, which is STORED IN THE BATTERY.
The battery PRODUCES NOTHING,
It simply converts electrical energy into CHEMICAL ENERGY, So it can be STORED
(You can't store electrons, they are used or lost)

When your vehicle has a large demand, like cold starts, jump starting, running the winch, ect.
The BATTERY CONVERTS CHEMICAL ENERGY BACK TO ELECTRICAL ENERGY AND SUPPLIES THE LOAD.

When the load stops,
The alternator charges the battery back up over TIME at low amperage.

NOW,
You CAN NOT charge a battery quickly. if you try to hit a battery with 200 amps, it's going to get hot and explode in most cases.

Batteries MUCH PREFER their charge around 2 to 4 amps.
"Trickle" charging FULLY CHARGES THE BATTERY, while high amperage transfer only heats the battery up causing resistance and eventually battery failure.

---------------------------------

When you "JUMP START" someone,
You are NOT 'CHARGING' their battery with your 750 CCA battery.

YOU ARE TRANSFERRING AMPERAGE TO THE STARTING MOTOR WHEN YOU JUMP FROM GOOD BATTERY TO STARTER MOTOR.

You CAN leave the jumpers on a car a while, and YOUR ALTERNATOR will charge the other 'Dead' battery SLOWLY over time...
That usually has to be done when the other vehicle is REALLY dead,
Or when you have crappy cables that won't transfer enough amperage to turn the starter motor on the other vehicle DIRECTLY...

BATTERIES GIVE CURRENT QUICKLY, but take time and charge SLOWLY.
So you don't need a HUGE alternator to charge your batteries.

BATTERIES STORE A LOT OF ENERGY...
That's why you can flip on a bunch of lights, turn a starter motor, ect.
Alternators put out current SLOWLY so the battery can charge.

IF you look into the alternator/welder threads, you CAN make an alternator put out a lot of current really quickly,
Enough to weld from, which is way more than any battery can tolerate...
The alternator is REGULATED to give a charge COMPATIBLE with the battery and vehicle electronics.

That REGULATOR keeps the alternator from throwing too much current at the battery at one time, so you don't overheat the battery, burn up the electronics in the vehicle, ect.

SO!
Even if you get one of those 200 AMP 'SUPER DUPER' alternators of the internet,
Your VEHICLE is never going to demand more than about 35-40 Amps in it's life time during NORMAL operations.

If you ground out something, you might get a current spike,
If you install some big, stupid stereo or something with HUGE demands, you might break that 35-40 Amp limit...
But during NORMAL operations, it will work fine just like it has for the last 30 years or so.

 

Thanks for taking the time to spell this stuff out JeepHammer. What with all of these companies marketing these "Super Duper" alternators I can see how easy it is to get caught up in the hype. Before I knew better I went with a higher output alternator on my van thinking that it would be of benefit with the two batteries and all the electrical gear (amplifiers audio & CB, high output H4 headlightsm etc). Not that it's doing any harm over the last ten years~just superfluous.

 

Why do the batteries only draw 35 amps?

Assume that someone had one of the aforementioned HUGE steros and a bunch of lights and other accessories running at the same time. Would this cause the battery to draw more than 35 amps? If this was the situation could you install a larger fusible link to handle the increased load?

One other thing, somewhat related. I work in Psychological Operations in the Army. When we install our loudspeaker systems (basically a really, really huge stero system ) on a HMMWV; we are required to install a "hi amp" alternator. I'm not aware of anyother upgrades to the charging system (i.e. a higher guage fusible link). Is the HMMWV charging system different from the AMC?

Harley Davidson also installs "hi amp" alternators on their police special motorcycles to handle the additional load of radios and parade fans. Same question, if the charging system is limited by the "fusible link" why would they do this.

I'm not disagreing what what your saying, I just don't understand these two examples.

 

DEMAND.

The battery will never demand more than about 10 amps.
You can try to force more current through the battery, but all you will do is heat it up and damage it.
Batteries store energy in CHEMICAL form, and that process takes time to convert electrical energy into chemical energy.
If you try and 'Force Feed' a battery, all you do is heat up the plates and warp them.

Batteries are VERY GOOD at converting chemical energy into electrical energy, so you can discharge a battery much faster than you can charge it.

--------

If you watch an 'Ammeter' (Amp) gauge when a battery is recharging after starting the engine,
With nothing else besides the ignition connected to the electrical system,
You will see the 'Ammeter' go only slightly positive.

As you turn on more accessories in the vehicle, the ammeter will rise to the positive side if the vehicle is charging correctly.

Since the entire production of the alternator goes through the Ammeter, you are seeing what the vehicle is demanding, and the alternator produces to meet that demand.

----------------------------

REGULATION.

The battery will normally draw between 2 & 6 amps only.
When batteries are given exactly what they want, they 'Trickle Charge' with very low amperage.

When you flip on the headlight, there is more demand,
So the alternator REGULATOR forces more production to meet that demand.

As you increase demand, the alternator puts more current out,
As you decrease demand, the alternator REDUCES output.

That's the entire function of the REGULATOR, to keep up EXACTLY with demand...

-------------------------------------

*IF*...
You exceed the 'Safe' limits for the alternator,
Or demand more current than the alternator can force through a 10 Ga. or 12 Ga. wire and it's fusible link,

The battery will take over and supply the load.

When the heavy load stops, the alternator charges the battery,
No harm, no foul.

Small, working loads, the alternator handles VERY well,
Larger, short duration loads, like the starter motor, the battery takes over and supplies those large current loads.

-------------------------

And just for the record, since we have an 'Argument Hijacker' in the mix,
A 10 Ga. wire is supposed to not exceed 32.5 Amps in capacity.

Here is a link to the Brown & Sharp scale that tells the size, resistance, amp load of about any common size copper conductor.
Link: http://www.civilianjeep.info/Wiring/B&Sscale01.gif

For a '200 AMP' continuous load, without heating up the conductor, you would have to have a 'OO' gauge conductor (2/0 Ga. 220 amp load)
Which is what I use on my winches because they are NOT continuous duty.

My winch draws about 600 Amps, so they get TWO 2/0 Ga. cables, one from each battery,
And I keep track of how much they heat up in use since they are loaded like crazy when I'm doing a hard pull with the winch...

---------------------------

Now, I realize people use MUCH SMALLER wires/cables than they should, even factories.
It's a cost thing, since you are virtually NEVER going to draw more than the alternator wire will take, or the fusible link will take, they can get away with a smaller wire than the rated output of the alternator.

During the warranty period,
If you were the 1 in 100,000 people that DID overload the 10 Ga. wire and 12 Ga fusible link
It cost them virtually nothing to replace that fusible link or wire,
And they made money on the other 99,999 people.

Same thing with 'Ground' wires.
The reason our vehicles don't have 'Dedicated Ground' wires to electrical components is cost...
The vehicle would live through the 'Warranty' period when new,
And if you had an issue, the dealership mechanic would add a 'Ground' wire to what you were having problems with and send you out the door.

Our head lights often overheat our head light switches, dimmer switches, connectors at the lamps, wires, ect.
A ton of us have un-wraped the harness to find a melted mess of wires...
VERY close to an electrical fire when that insulation gets soggy enough to stick to other wire's insulation...

It's also the reason I say to 'Up-Size' the wires when you replace them.
Never hurts to have a 12 gauge wire go back in where a 14 Ga. wire comes out,
Costs you virtually nothing, and ensures the electrical device you are trying to run gets supplied...

I also say to add 'DEDICATED GROUND WIRES' to anything with current going to them so you don't torture the electrical device you are trying to power up.
Wipers, gauges, lights, everything else works so much better when you supply a 'Ground' to the device instead of relying on painted or rusty metal...

--------------------------

Would you like for me to get technical?
I can explain how a regulator splits/reduces current.
How the regulator limits output in WATTS and in VOLTS,
Would that do you any good? Miniature electronics usually isn't very well received,
Too much math and too tedious, since you can't display it in common terms, you have to use specific electrical schematics, ect.

If you can make sense of this, I can try to explain it,

This is a VERY simple voltage regulator,
If you want to get into a modern automotive regulator, it's about 4 times as much,
But I can try to explain it if you want...

 

See if I understand correctly: 1) The alternator will try to meet the electircal demand/load (measured in amps). 2) If demand/load excedes the capacity (in amps) of the alternator, then electricity is drawn from the "reserve" stored in the battery. 3) Once the demand/load decreases, the alternator will direct electricity to the battery to restore the "reserve". 4) The regulator determins how much electricity (or how many amps) are directed to the load or to the battery.

Is that correct?

If so, then wouldn't it be correct that an alternator with a higher output (measured in amps) would be able to meet more demand/load before the system had to draw from the "reserve" stored in the battery? Wouldn't the regulator still function to keep too much electricity (measured in amps) from going to the battery?

Would it be correct to say that if demand/load exceeded the alternators capacity and the system kept drawing from the reserve in the battery, eventually the batteries would be drained and the vehicle would stop running?

How about the question I asked? Why does the Army require a higher amp alternator to be installed in the HMMWV with a loud speaker system that has a high amp draw? I beleive these alternators have integrated regulators, but nothing else is changed in the vehicle.

If I understand correctly, the reason for a higher amp alternator is to allow the alternator to meet more of the demand before it has to dip into the "reserve" stored in the battery. I would assume

Sorry to be so dense on this. I don't doubt that you are correct, I just don't understand why OEM manufactures build alternators that have different outputs, if a battery never needs more than 10 amps and total current draw is limited to 35 amps.

 

See if I understand correctly:
1) The alternator will try to meet the electircal demand/load (measured in amps).
2) If demand/load excedes the capacity (in amps) of the alternator, then electricity is drawn from the "reserve" stored in the battery.
3) Once the demand/load decreases, the alternator will direct electricity to the battery to restore the "reserve".
4) The regulator determins how much electricity (or how many amps) are directed to the load or to the battery.

Is that correct?

Correct! Very good!
The alternator will supply your Jeep as it came from the factory, and some extra with about a 65 Amp alternator.

The reason for the extra amperage capacity is so your alternator doesn't have to work as hard, right up against it's limit at full demand.

If so, then wouldn't it be correct that an alternator with a higher output (measured in amps) would be able to meet more demand/load before the system had to draw from the "reserve" stored in the battery?

Correct again.

Wouldn't the regulator still function to keep too much electricity (measured in amps) from going to the battery?

Not sure about this question...
The regulator will top out, then extra current would be supplied by the battery for the duration of the load,
Then recharge the battery.

If you EXCEED system capacity,
A larger output alternator (Within Reason) or a larger battery will fill in the gap.

Would it be correct to say that if demand/load exceeded the alternators capacity and the system kept drawing from the reserve in the battery, eventually the batteries would be drained and the vehicle would stop running?

CORRECT!
Larger battery or higher output alternator,
With larger primary wire and fusible link would be required for that larger alternator to be effective.

When I get stupid large demands, like winch or inverter,
I use TWO batteries and a higher output alternator with a 6 Ga. wire instead of a 10 Ga. wire.

How about the question I asked?
Why does the Army require a higher amp alternator to be installed in the HMMWV with a loud speaker system that has a high amp draw?
I beleive these alternators have integrated regulators, but nothing else is changed in the vehicle.

Loud speakers usually have an inverter to bump up current from 24 Volts DC to AC current,
Inverters draw a BUNCH of power, so they increase the output from the alternator to cover that.

I'm not supposed to talk about one of our military projects,
But the 24 volt DC alternator also has AC taps out the back for some hardware that works better on AC power than DC power, and they don't have to use a wasteful Inverter in the middle.

If I understand correctly, the reason for a higher amp alternator is to allow the alternator to meet more of the demand before it has to dip into the "reserve" stored in the battery. I would assume

That is correct.
Electric Everything' cars, power seats, power windows, electric defrosters, ect require a BUNCH more power,
So the alternators off those big Buicks are always higher output than the 'Regular' versions of the alternators.

Just remember, we are talking the neighborhood of 100 Amps, Not 200 Amps here,
And we are talking SHORT DURATION, not full time draw...

Sorry to be so dense on this.
I don't doubt that you are correct,
I just don't understand why OEM manufactures build alternators that have different outputs, if a battery never needs more than 10 amps and total current draw is limited to 35 amps.

JEEPS are limited to 35-45 amps by the fusible links.
IF you saw the primary wires on something like a Cadillac, it's a 6 Ga. wire instead of a 10 Ga. wire,
And if it's a fully loaded Cadillac, with electric front and rear window defrosters, heated seats, electric everything, they often have a 4 Ga. primary wire...

JEEPS weren't built with all that crap,
And AMC was on the edge of bankrupsy, so they cut corners everywhere they could.
We wound up with under size everything to save money,
Or we wound up with 'Old' production from some other company...

GM had gone to the more expensive CS series alternators in '82 or so,
But Jeeps still had the SI series alternators until 90 or so.
Jeep was buying GM's old stock so cheap it didn't make sense for them to redesign for the new alternator types, so they didn't...

When CHRYSLER finally got around to burning up all the old stock from AMC, and done redesigning the Jeep, they got Chrysler (Nippon Denso) alternators... (AND FUEL INJECTION!)

--------------------

To answer your question,
You are getting a grip on the SYSTEM...
The alternator and battery work as the 'Charging System' together.
One won't function without the other, and the two complement each other.

Since batteries and generators have become so reliable, they no longer have to stand independent of each other... They are in INTEGRATED SYSTEM.

 

When I had my 360 built, I chose to go with a higher output GM/Delco alt. out of a Park Ave. or Caddy. I can't remember which...I would have to look back in my receipts. I believe its a 140 amp. The only reason I did it was in anticipation of running the ARB compressor for the lockers and having to use the winch. I also plan on doing some sort of undercarriage trail lighting. I also went with the 12voltguy.com dual battery set up. So I wanted a bigger alt. to take care of both batteries. Is it overkill....I dunno....who gives a s**t?...Its an alternator....I've got better things to worry about like whats for dinner. If we were discussing the charging system on a NASA space shuttle...maybe it would require some in depth analysis.

So...go for the gusto

 

Bad Attitude, but CORRECT approach.

140 Amp Buick or Cadillac alternator isn't too much, but you wouldn't need even that size alternator unless you had some long term load you needed to support.

I use a 97 -105 Amp alternator on my FSJ when the 12 SI in 78 Amps took a crap.

The reason the '79 Amp SI took a crap was because I towed a trailer with a lot of lights (CONSTANT DRAIN) and I still had a single battery that didn't help out much...

SO!
When I went after the charging system, I went at the ENTIRE SYSTEM.
Dual batteries for more reserve for short term loads,
A higher output CS 144 Alternator for higher CONSTANT loads,
A larger Primary wire from alternator to batteries,

(CS-144, Rated for 144 Amps, but labors at anything past about 105 amps, REALLY pulls the engine down, and past 105 Amp load, you can't keep a 'V' belt on the thing,
Had to go to dual V belt pulles to get past the 105-110 amp mark, so that is something to consider when you try to load a '200 AMP' alternator...
You would probably need a Harely Chain Drive to get it turning without smoking belts!)

Now when I run the winch, the snow plow pump, drag the trailer around, ect.
I have enough BATTERY for the short term loads, Snow Plow Hydraulic Pump,
Winch, and I have enough alternator to keep up with the long term loads,
The extra lights in/on the trailer, accessory outlets back there, Inverter, ect.

Larger battery cables/better connectors to feed the winch, inverters, ect

I went after the SYSTEM, not just one component expecting 'Miracles' in the process...

 

Don't forget you are not cruising down the road all the time. When your idling you are not pumping out much current from the alternator. You will eventually drain your battery because the alternator will be lucky to put out a few amps at idle. Turn your head lights on, turn up the heat, put on wiper, step on your brakes see how far your volt gauge drops at idle. Do this a lot and your battery will be dead.

The bigger alternators will pump out more amps at idle than the original one. So if a Humvee is sitting still blasting out noise eating up amps. they will need a bigger alternator. Not to produce 150 amps at cruise but maybe an extra 10 amps at idle. Just so the battery doesn't die.

You would be suprised how many people sit idling in traffic jams.

Also bigger alternators draw more power from the engine so it would not be efficent to put a huge alternator in a car that does not need one. Plus they cost more. Got to put in the cheapest part without pissing of the most people.

 

Don't forget you are not cruising down the road all the time. When your idling you are not pumping out much current from the alternator. You will eventually drain your battery because the alternator will be lucky to put out a few amps at idle. Turn your head lights on, turn up the heat, put on wiper, step on your brakes see how far your volt gauge drops at idle. Do this a lot and your battery will be dead.

AMEN JOHN!
Even with a CS in the truck, it sill has dim head light and dash lights,
As soon as you hit the throttle, just 200 or 300 Engine RPM make a HUGE difference in output!

The bigger alternators will pump out more amps at idle than the original one.

Larger the rotor, the more room for 'North' and 'South' magnetic leaves and field winding loops for those magnetic poles to move those magnetic field changes through...
More movement means more induction,
More windings means more current produced at any RPM.
But I warn you, those military hummer alternator are a foot in diameter or better and that doesn't include mounts!

So if a Humvee is sitting still blasting out noise eating up amps. they will need a bigger alternator. Not to produce 150 amps at cruise but maybe an extra 10 amps at idle. Just so the battery doesn't die.

Exactly correct.

You would be suprised how many people sit idling in traffic jams.

Sit in a traffic jam, run the AC or heater at full blast, have every electrical accessory at full blast, and then wonder why the lights 'Dim' when they idle...

Also bigger alternators draw more power from the engine so it would not be efficent to put a huge alternator in a car that does not need one. Plus they cost more. Got to put in the cheapest part without pissing of the most people.

This is no exaggeration,
TWO of the big hummer alternators I'm working around now at the shop weight as much as my 4 cylinder MGB engine block did!
I don't think my 67 Horse power MGB engine would turn these two alternators at full output,
They REALLY take some power to turn!
that MG only put out 105 Lb.Ft. of torque, and I don't think that would turn these two alternators at full draw...

 

The 1983 CJ (going by your sig) should be a 61A Delco - which isn't bad.

If you're going to upgrade significantly, and you plan on using it to capacity, you're going to want to upgrade your mains wiring - I can help you with that, if you like. Bear in mind that the OEM wiring is usually "just enough" for the OEM application and not at 100% duty cycle for full output, so going with a "larger" alternator and using it effectively is going to require a mains upgrade...

 

So then John, your saying the main benefit of going with a larger alternator is the increased output at idle; besides as I said above, having a large a accessory draw from something exceeding what the stock alt. can keep up with.

 

I haven't read all of the post but here is my 2cents.

Go big, determine what your need is then go 50% bigger.

When you need the power for a winch it will be there, when you do an audio thing then you have the power.

Before buying, look at what a 200 amp will cost.
My choice is WranglerPower Products but Green Mean has one too.

http://www.wranglerpower.com/

Pricey YES but anything good cost money !

 

I'm glad John lent a post in this thread. I have faith in his posts as they've kept me out of trouble :cheers2:

 

Interesting... slightly off topic, and not hi-jacking... but that red 10-gauge power wire that comes out of the fire wall that used to power the old computer for the carb... is it powering all of the dash lights and gauges like you said as well?

If this is the same 10-gauge wire that we use when we install an "HEI" and use it for the power wire for the dizzy... is it really even appropriate for that? I would think this would stress that undersized wire even more.
Instead shouldn't we just run a wire from the battery to a switched ignition relay, then straight to the dizzy? I read somewhere a "DUI" dizzy needs 14.5 volts to operate at its full potential.

 

The entire wiring harness on a CJ is painfully inadequate in today's terms.
We have power everything.

The reason I often write you SHOULD put in a power relay for an HEI is exactly that reason.
The Jeep/Motorcraft ignition draws about 4 amps average.
The HEI ignition draws about 6.5 amps average.

Adding to that, it draws that current in 'Pulses' as the ignition coil saturates,
So it's actually drawing about twice it's 'Average' then shutting down, then drawing again.
A CLEAN 10 Ga. feed wire will supply a HEI, but that takes a relay to do since the factory fuse block, old, small fuses, a couple dozen old connectors, a factory tach, a old corroded ignition switch, ect. all put resistance into the system and keep the HEI from reaching it's full potential.

I'm SURE I'll get blasted again from the guys that hooked up to a 14 Ga. coil wire with the resistor still in place,
And since it 'Runs' for them, they will argue to high heaven that is plenty...

I've watched the voltage drop on an oscilloscope as the ignition cycles, and you usually start off with around 12 to 14 volts, but when the coil saturates, the voltage will drop to around 8 volts or so.
That voltage drop means the ignition is being 'Starved' for amperage due to the small wiring, old connectors, and all the draws on the same line it's trying to use at the same time.

A fast enough volt meter will show the dips in line voltage also.

---------------------------------

Now, what's not covered here is a SIMPLE way to test your alternator for a 'Ground' wire.
Same principal...
Everyone that complains their alternator 'Can't Keep Up', I tell them to do this test.

Take a multi-meter and test between alterantor case (The NEGATIVE side of the circuit every electron your vehicle uses comes from),
And test between the alternator case and the battery terminal negative.

You will usually show little or no resistance.

Start the engine and do the same test.
If the resistance jumps up, YOU NEED A DEDICATED GROUND WIRE TO YOUR BATTERY FROM THE ALTERNATOR CASE.

This PROVES you are NOT efficiently completing the circuit, and when you don't complete the circuit, the current can't flow effectively.

--------------------------------------------

Same process for the starter.

Guys here argue all the time you do NOT have to move the 'Negative' or 'Ground' wire from the engine block to the starter bolt,
But when you see the results of that simple resistance check, it's hard to argue you don't need that move anymore...

The starter is the LARGEST normal draw on the vehicle, yet some guys WILL NOT give it a solid NEGATIVE circuit path back to the batteries!
This is DC, DIRECT CURRENT, there is no such thing as a 'Chassis Ground'.
If you don't add a 'Dedicated Circuit Path' or 'Dedicated Ground' back to the battery, your stuff isn't going to work like it's supposed to...

Just plain electrical basics 101 here, not launching the space shuttle or anything...

 

Jeephammer, im going to start a post on this 10-gauge/HEI wire issue, would you post copy what you posted here on it? Im not very electrically inclined, but am very interested in this issue that I dont think is well known or understood. And I want to setup my HEI the correct way.

 

I have diagrams, explanations on how to wire in relays, how relays work, ect.
Do you want that stuff on your thread, if so, I'll post it.
If not, I won't clutter up your thread.

 

Just went through all of this. Read everyone of jh's posts and finally went with a cs130 for my '78 cj7 rebuild. Doing a ground up and doing research as I go. Just decided to use a cs130 so if I do any upgrades, fi, fan, etc.
Use advance part number p7922-3. It's out of a 90 Buick lasabre estate wagon. 89.99 plus 10 core. 100 amps. Lifetime warranty. Already has a v belt pully. Cheapest one I found anywhere.
Use code a123 or p20 for great discounts. Ship free if you can't pick it up.
Use napa ec 82 that Jh is taking about.
Thanks JH!

 

OUT STANDING you used a standard application alternator!
you jack the output up around 100 or more amps, and a SINGLE V belt might not be enough to spin that sucker.

I have a 140 Amp on my FSJ, and I had to go with a dual belt when I loaded it hard or the belt screamed bloody murder even when it was bow string tight, which is hard on the bearings...

Don't forget, you need to add that resistor to the 'Excite' terminal wire or that alternator won't live long, The Excite terminal is marked 'L' on the CS series regulators and plugs.

And if you plan to get up around the 100 amp mark out of it,
Then use a 6 Ga. wire on the back to the battery.

A good dedicated ground wire won't hurt anything either...
Helps the output of the alternator when it's working,
And it helps keep the regulator alive when you load the crap out of it!

Lifetime warranty or not, it SUCKS to change an alternator when you can keep from it!