Electrical ground points - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
Search  
Sign Up   Today's Posts
User: Pass: Remember?
Advertise Here
Jeep Home Jeep Forum Jeep Classifieds Jeep Registry JeepSpace Jeep Reviews Jeep Gallery Jeep Clubs Jeep Groups Jeep Videos Jeep Events Jeep Articles
Go Back JeepForum.com > Models > Jeep Cherokee & Comanche Forums > XJ Cherokee Technical Forum > Electrical ground points

Rockridge 4WD IS Taking Zone Offroad Suspension Lift Kits ZONE 4.25" combo lift for TJ available at Rockridge4wG2 Disc Brake Conversion Kit for Jeep Wrangler YJ TJ LJ Ch

Reply
Unread 12-02-2011, 05:44 PM   #31
cruiser54
Web Wheeler
 
cruiser54's Avatar
1990 MJ Comanche 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Posts: 10,314
Why do I feel like I just got scolded by my Mom


It's more like Dad than Mom.

cruiser54 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-02-2011, 05:51 PM   #32
TheMiddleMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 146
Thanks Dad
TheMiddleMan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-02-2011, 05:56 PM   #33
cruiser54
Web Wheeler
 
cruiser54's Avatar
1990 MJ Comanche 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Posts: 10,314
You're welcome Grasshopper. What show is that from?
cruiser54 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-02-2011, 09:02 PM   #34
TheMiddleMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser54 View Post
You're welcome Grasshopper. What show is that from?
I'm a bit young to remember the original, but I think it was Kung-Fu with David Carradine?
TheMiddleMan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-02-2011, 09:05 PM   #35
cruiser54
Web Wheeler
 
cruiser54's Avatar
1990 MJ Comanche 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Posts: 10,314
Good answer!!!
cruiser54 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-02-2011, 10:49 PM   #36
TheMiddleMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser54 View Post
Good answer!!!
Alright! And I didn't even have to use Google. It's nice when my memory works
TheMiddleMan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-03-2011, 11:49 AM   #37
TheMiddleMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 146
So this morning I got up to go to the grocery store, get in the Jeep and turn on the headlights. Dash indicator is off. Take a look at the front park lamp and I see the light! Not very bright, but something (yesterday after all the cleanng I had done I all of a sudden had no light in there).But now I'm more confused than ever. How does it just power up like that?

Anyway, still going to try out those connectors this weekend and see how it goes.
TheMiddleMan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-03-2011, 01:47 PM   #38
cruiser54
Web Wheeler
 
cruiser54's Avatar
1990 MJ Comanche 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Posts: 10,314
I thought I had already posted these in this thread, but I guess not.

Improving the Instrument Panel Ground

The ground point for the complete instrument cluster on your XJ or MJ is located up under the driver’s side dash. If you lay on your back and look up under there with a flashlight, without wearing a hat, you will see a black wire attached to a shiny piece of metal almost directly above the hood release knob. The screw will have either a ¼” or 5/16” head on it.

This ground point is responsible for handling the ground circuit for the following items: Dome lamps, Seatbelt and key warning, trans comfort switch, wiper switch, headlamp switch and delay module, fog lamp switch, cargo lamp switch, all instrument panel grounds and illumination, power windows and door locks, cruise control dump valve, and a few more things.

The problem is that where the ground point is located does not have a good contact with the chassis where the ground should be. The solution is simple.

Make up a jumper wire with #10 gauge wire about 10” long. On one end, crimp on a ¼” round wire terminal. On the other end, crimp on a 3/8” round wire terminal.

Remove the screw from the existing ground wire and attach the small terminal of your jumper so that the original wire and your new jumper share the same attaching point, one over the other.

Look above the driver’s side plastic kick panel just forward of the top of the hood release knob. You will see an 8mm stud there. Attach the large terminal end there with a washer and nut over it tightened securely.

**Special note for Comanche owners: Make your jumper wire 12” long and attach it on the driver’s side kick panel close to the fusebox on the 8mm stud.**


Revised 11-29-2011 Renix Ground Refreshing

The Renix era XJs and MJs were built with an under-engineered grounding system for the engine/transmission electronics. One problem in particular involves the multiple ground connection at the engine dipstick tube stud. A poor ground here can cause a multitude of driveabililty issues, wasted time, and wasted money replacing unnecessary components.

The components grounding at the dipstick tube stud are:

Distributor Sync Sensor, TCU main ground, TCU “Shift Point Logic”, Ignition control Module, Injectors, ECU main ground which other engine sensors ground through, Oxygen sensor, Knock Sensor, Cruise Control, and Transmission Sync signal. All extremely important stuff.

The factory was aware of the issues with this ground point and addressed it by suggesting the following:

Remove the nut holding the wire terminals to the stud. Verify that the stud is indeed tightened securely into the block. Scrape any and all paint from the stud’s mounting surface where the wires will attach. Must be clean, shiny and free of any oil, grease, or paint.

Inspect the wire terminals. Check to see that none of the terminals are crimped over wire insulation instead of bare wire. Be sure the crimps are tight. It wouldn’t hurt to re-crimp them just as a matter of course. Sand and polish the wire terminals until clean and shiny on both sides. Reinstall all the wires to the stud and tighten the nut down securely.

While you’re in that general area, locate the battery negative cable which is fastened to the engine block just forward of the dipstick stud. Remove the bolt, scrape the block to bare metal, clean and polish the cable terminal, and reattach securely.

Another area where the grounding system on Renix era Jeeps was lacking is the engine to chassis ground. There is a braided cable from the back of the cylinder head that also attaches to the driver’s side of the firewall. This cable is undersized for it’s intended use and subject to corrosion and poor connections at each end.

First off, remove the cable end from the firewall using a 15mm wrench or socket. Scrape the paint off down to bare metal and clean the wire terminal. Reattach securely.
Remove the other end of the cable from the rear of the head using a 3’4” socket. Clean all the oil, paint and crud from the stud. Clean the wire terminal of the cable and reattach securely.

A suggestion regarding the braided cable:
I prefer to add a #4 Gauge cable from the firewall to a bolt on the rear of the intake manifold, either to a heat shield bolt or fuel rail bolt. A cable about 18” long with a 3/8” lug on each end works great and you can get one at any parts store already made up. Napa has them as part number 781116.

A further improvement to the grounding system can be made using a #4 cable, about 10” long with 3/8” terminals at each end. Attach one end of this cable to the negative battery bolt and the other end under the closest 10mm headed bolt on the radiator support just forward of the battery. Napa part number 781115.



If you want to upgrade your grounds and battery cables in general, contact Jon at www.kelleyswip.com. He makes an incredible cable upgrade for a very reasonable price.


Revised 11-28-2011
cruiser54 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-03-2011, 02:42 PM   #39
TheMiddleMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 146
^^^ You did post that already, sorry didn't mean to come across like I'm not paying attention to the posts. I actually have them printed off and in my glove compartment for quick reference. Just wasn't sure if the sudden power there was a clue. I'll see what happens when I go through the harness shortly.

Thanks Cruiser.
TheMiddleMan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-03-2011, 06:53 PM   #40
cruiser54
Web Wheeler
 
cruiser54's Avatar
1990 MJ Comanche 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Posts: 10,314
I do this at least once in the ownership of a Renix Jeep:

Unplug every connector in the engine bay that I can see/find. Spray out both halves of the connection with a good electronics cleaner, inspect the pins/receptacles, add dielectric grease, and plug back in.
cruiser54 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-04-2011, 01:37 PM   #41
puredrive
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Austin
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser54 View Post
I've got the factory wiring manual with a Ground Distribution page in it.

There are 2 points on the left inner fender.

There is the engine dipstick tube stud. SUPER IMPORTANT!!

There is the ground to the lower diagonal dash brace to the left of the steering column.

There is one in behind the trim panel where the spare tire mounts.

The one on the instrument panel brace grounds a ton of things. Probably too many things as a matter of fact, given it's poor mounting point on the brace with a self tapping screw. I remove the screw that it's held on with, extend the wire, using the same gauge or bigger, and terminate it to the stud near the fusebox.

There are also grounds from the engine to chassis, notably the poor one from the back of the head to the firewall but that wouldn't affect your dash lights. Not that the engine to chassis grounding shouldn't be addressed. I'm working on a write-up for that in the near future.

how so? just curious. thx
__________________
AP2 S2000
Buell 1125CR
[url=http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/puredrives-xj-build-1132186]200 XJ Build[/url]
puredrive is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-04-2011, 02:36 PM   #42
WKdeuce
Registered User
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Malvern PA
Posts: 2,277
MiddleMan, bulbs pull an amount of current to light. That amount of current can either be pulled through the size wiring you're using or it can't. When you have a corroded connection, consider that a smaller gauge of wire, barely any continuity at all. If they're corroded enough, there's no connection at all. So from the sounds of what you're doing, you've touched your problem, but not cleaned it enough. Something you've cleaned or plugged & unplugged is/was your problem. Clean it more or plug it a few more times. You want bare metal contacting bare metal to make a good connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puredrive View Post
how so? just curious. thx
It's one of the wiring mains. It ties the block to the negative terminal on the battery. Any sensor that's housing grounded uses that as a final path to ground.
__________________
2011 5.7L WK2 | 5.3L TJ work in progress
Rust in Pieces Blue
JEEP FIEND CLUB
WKdeuce is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-04-2011, 05:13 PM   #43
cruiser54
Web Wheeler
 
cruiser54's Avatar
1990 MJ Comanche 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Posts: 10,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by puredrive View Post
how so? just curious. thx
I finished it. Here ya go.Don't take any shortcuts when doing this:
Renix Ground Refreshing

The Renix era XJs and MJs were built with an under-engineered grounding system for the engine/transmission electronics. One problem in particular involves the multiple ground connection at the engine dipstick tube stud. A poor ground here can cause a multitude of driveabililty issues, wasted time, and wasted money replacing unnecessary components.

The components grounding at the dipstick tube stud are:

Distributor Sync Sensor, TCU main ground, TCU “Shift Point Logic”, Ignition control Module, Injectors, ECU main ground which other engine sensors ground through, Oxygen sensor, Knock Sensor, Cruise Control, and Transmission Sync signal. All extremely important stuff.

The factory was aware of the issues with this ground point and addressed it by suggesting the following:

Remove the nut holding the wire terminals to the stud. Verify that the stud is indeed tightened securely into the block. Scrape any and all paint from the stud’s mounting surface where the wires will attach. Must be clean, shiny and free of any oil, grease, or paint.

Inspect the wire terminals. Check to see that none of the terminals are crimped over wire insulation instead of bare wire. Be sure the crimps are tight. It wouldn’t hurt to re-crimp them just as a matter of course. Sand and polish the wire terminals until clean and shiny on both sides. Reinstall all the wires to the stud and tighten the nut down securely.

While you’re in that general area, locate the battery negative cable which is fastened to the engine block just forward of the dipstick stud. Remove the bolt, scrape the block to bare metal, clean and polish the cable terminal, and reattach securely.

Another area where the grounding system on Renix era Jeeps was lacking is the engine to chassis ground. There is a braided cable from the back of the cylinder head that also attaches to the driver’s side of the firewall. This cable is undersized for it’s intended use and subject to corrosion and poor connections at each end.

First off, remove the cable end from the firewall using a 15mm wrench or socket. Scrape the paint off down to bare metal and clean the wire terminal. Reattach securely.
Remove the other end of the cable from the rear of the head using a 3’4” socket. Clean all the oil, paint and crud from the stud. Clean the wire terminal of the cable and reattach securely.

A suggestion regarding the braided cable:
I prefer to add a #4 Gauge cable from the firewall to a bolt on the rear of the intake manifold, either to a heat shield bolt or fuel rail bolt. A cable about 18” long with a 3/8” lug on each end works great and you can get one at any parts store already made up. Napa has them as part number 781116.

A further improvement to the grounding system can be made using a #4 cable, about 10” long with 3/8” terminals at each end. Attach one end of this cable to the negative battery bolt and the other end under the closest 10mm headed bolt on the radiator support just forward of the battery. Napa part number 781115.



If you want to upgrade your grounds and battery cables in general, contact Jon at www.kelleyswip.com. He makes an incredible cable upgrade for a very reasonable price.


Revised 11-28-2011
cruiser54 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-04-2011, 06:13 PM   #44
TheMiddleMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 146
Is it dedication, or stupidity, that makes one use his vacation days to fix the Jeep?

I took the last 3 days of this week off strictly to try and solve this problem, and do the refresh/cleaning of the lines.

Stupid or not, I'm looking forward too it!

Hopefully, I will have a solution to post on this come Friday.

Until then....

Thanks for the guidance folks....

Last edited by TheMiddleMan; 12-04-2011 at 06:14 PM.. Reason: adding a thank you
TheMiddleMan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Unread 12-04-2011, 07:57 PM   #45
cruiser54
Web Wheeler
 
cruiser54's Avatar
1990 MJ Comanche 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Posts: 10,314
I'll call it dedication. Would you rather have a $600 a month car payment and have to carry full coverage insurance?
cruiser54 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Tags
electrical issue , grounds , light dash electrical

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.
Note: All free e-mails have been banned due to mis-use. (Yahoo, Gmail, Hotmail, etc.)
Don't have a non-free e-mail address? Click here for a solution: Manual Account Creation
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools


Suggested Threads





Jeep, Wrangler, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and other models are copyrighted and trademarked to Jeep/Chrysler Corporation. JeepForum.com is not in any way associated with Jeep or the Chrysler Corp.