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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a friend who is a professional welder coming over tomorrow to weld my spider gears on my 8.8. Which rod should I get? He can weld anything (mig tig and arc certified) but we are unsure exactly what they are made of

And no I am not going to change my mind about welding them, I have 2 spare 8.8's for parts if I grenade this one

Thanks in advance guys
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks jerry! I wasn't sure of the best place to post this!
 

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I have used a 250 amp mig welder successfully and not had problems. Of course I don't weld the gears solid. I just weld up a couple of teeth on each side and put them bike in. This allows the wheels to spin about a half turn independently before they lock.
 

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The gears are more than likely hard steel. Probably want to set your machine to 115amps or more for this job.

I usually prefer 6011 but 7018 is also good.

The difference between the "60" and "70" is tensile strength example 6011 has 60,000lbs tensile and 7018 has 70,00lbs.
 

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I have a friend who is a professional welder coming over tomorrow to weld my spider gears on my 8.8. Which rod should I get? He can weld anything (mig tig and arc certified) but we are unsure exactly what they are made of

And no I am not going to change my mind about welding them, I have 2 spare 8.8's for parts if I grenade this one

Thanks in advance guys
Well, if he's a pro he should know what to use.

I'd go with a high temp on 3/32" 7018 myself.

You will want to make sure and flush all the slag out when you are dome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
he is a professional, I am just going to get all the supplies before he gets here. Thanks for all the help guys! once again jeep forums has the answer!
 

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A 7018 rod is what I would use.
 

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7018 is the average rod most people use to weld spider gears for offroad uses,usualy breaking in the end.

If this guy is a professional then he should know to use 8018 stick,great rod for hardened steel and doesnt need preheat..
Also 307,309 and 312 rods are often used to weld stainless to mild or hard steel without preheat,making it a very good rod for all around welding .

Ive used 309L rod ALOT at work and around the house/shop,great all around rod.
The 8018 would most likely be your best bet since it is alot cheeper than 309.
I just recently used 8018 on an adjustable hitch for my F250 because it has a 6" lift with 35" tires,this rod runs beautiful even when turning the amps up real high for penetration,it doesnt seem to run hot at the end of the rod like 7018 does,it runs smooth all the way through.
 

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use 7018. We use it on high pressure vessels all day long. 6010,6011 is good for dirty steel but it splatters like mad.
Yes but the vessels and pipes you weld on there are made of mild steel,not hardened steel..spider gears are made of hardened steel.
 

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Yes but the vessels and pipes you weld on there are made of mild steel,not hardened steel..spider gears are made of hardened steel.
I've never used 8018. How does it penetrate on stuff like mild steel? I normally use 6010 to get big penetration on a root pass and then finish with 7018. You were saying you used it on a hitch. By that I presume it is a stronger weld on mild steel besides being used on hard stuff? I may need to get some.
 

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I have used a 250 amp mig welder successfully and not had problems. Of course I don't weld the gears solid. I just weld up a couple of teeth on each side and put them bike in. This allows the wheels to spin about a half turn independently before they lock.
in theroy this is a good idea but in the real world this is a bad idea. the teeth now that they been heated and stressed they will see alot more stress than intended.
so now that there stressed from the extra heat and there not welded solid ( the spiders and side gears ) they will probally break quicker.
im a big fan of the welded diff. i did bolth in my rockwells and run with several with front and rear welded diffs in the rocks ( 60/14 botls, rear steer buggys with full hydro ). i would suggest it but dont skip any teeth, weld then solid.

as far as what to use ive always had good luck with a 70 thousand wire or rod. i agree some what with the 8018 becasue of the higher strength, but seeing how alot of the side gears are made from 8260 and case hardend not fully hardned its not needed.
8018 is more for the chrome molly crowd and the extra 10 thousand tensle strength is not needed. this is one mans opinion so take it for what its worth, just smoke the hole damm thing into a ball of steel then at least the spiders/side gears cant break, only the axle's:laugh:

jason.
 

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I've never used 8018. How does it penetrate on stuff like mild steel? I normally use 6010 to get big penetration on a root pass and then finish with 7018. You were saying you used it on a hitch. By that I presume it is a stronger weld on mild steel besides being used on hard stuff? I may need to get some.
runs about the same as any low hydrogen rod, agin it is stronger but not needed here for this applacation. i mean for that matter we could say 11018 would be better, but our gears are not made from T-1.
i dont even use 11018 or any 100 thousand tensle strength rod on any of the T-1 or A-400 on buckets edge's, just 70 thousand with a good pre-heat.

for the sub work i used to do yes we did to code but not needed here, not for a welded diff. but if you feel you need it then so be it have at it, not worth the extra money when you probally have 7018 sitting on the shelf.

jason.
 

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I've never used 8018. How does it penetrate on stuff like mild steel? I normally use 6010 to get big penetration on a root pass and then finish with 7018. You were saying you used it on a hitch. By that I presume it is a stronger weld on mild steel besides being used on hard stuff? I may need to get some.
Its a great rod for mild steel and hardened steel.
Ive used it welding high pressure chemical vessels,pipe,cooling jackets on vessels,wear plate in rock mining machinery..etc etc.
I work alot of nuclear power plants,alot of times I'm just a rigging and welding superintendant over the ironworkers and millwrights,8018 is a common rod used on the turbine deck area for the turbine shells among other things that are hardened steel along with mild steel,they use it ALOT to repair hardened tools that have broke as a temporary fix until a new tool arrives on an order and it holds up well,even on busted hardened sockets on 1" air hammers,those tools stay around even after they get a new one and those things have been there for ALOT of years and the welds are still holding up,and im talking about 2-5" sockets used to bust loose bolts with a torque spec of 1500# or more.

The reason i thrive on using the better rods on spider gears is because of what they made of,we've used 7018 on wear plate,hardened steel,,case hardened..ect ect on jobs where "we" questioned as to WHY???...and always told thats what the prints call for..in the end..thats job security because we WILL be back to cut,,repair and weld into it more next time.
This is NOT "our" call,the main reason is the plant doesnt want to pay the extra for the right rods,time consuming preperation and preheat equipment and proper ventilation and respirator equipment,they would rather have it temporarily fixed until the next outage/shutdown and patch it all up again,somehow it all works out cheeper for them to go that way.
Doing it this way I've seen over and over how EVERY weld done with 7018 has cracked at the edge of the weld .
8018 is really not much more money than 7018 and works MUCH better for the spider gears than mild steel 7018 and would work even better if it was preheated to 450 degrees.

Another great rod is the 309L..it can be used to weld stainless to carbon and mild steel,but its a much more expensive rod,but its a favorite of ironworkers,millwrights,pipefitters and boilermakers as an all around rod.

I watch guys at dirt tracks in Georgia weld their spider gears up with 7018 all the time but they'll tell you the same thing"its a cheep fix and "when"(NOT IF) it breaks i'll just "weld'er up again!"
 

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Doing it this way I've seen over and over how EVERY weld done with 7018 has cracked at the edge of the weld .

Another great rod is the 309L..it can be used to weld stainless to carbon and mild steel,but its a much more expensive rod,but its a favorite of ironworkers,millwrights,pipefitters and boilermakers as an all around rod.
Your example if 7018 failing appears to be the base metal actually failing not the wels
I am a boilermaker and all we use 309l for is stainless, we most always tig it
 

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Doing it this way I've seen over and over how EVERY weld done with 7018 has cracked at the edge of the weld .

Another great rod is the 309L..it can be used to weld stainless to carbon and mild steel,but its a much more expensive rod,but its a favorite of ironworkers,millwrights,pipefitters and boilermakers as an all around rod.
Your example if 7018 failing appears to be the base metal actually failing not the wels
I am a boilermaker and all we use 309l for is stainless, we most always tig it
Thats the point i was making,the weld doesnt fail,its the rod used welding wear plate,hard steel..ect.

309L rod is a stainless rod but mostly used for welding stainless to other types of metal.

http://products.esabna.com/EN/home/...lectrodes_stainless_steel_e309_arcaloy_309l16

It comes available in TIG and Stick........

for stainless welding we use mostly 316L..but this is getting all off subject to the PO's original question....

I still would not use 7018 on spider gears
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
8018 was not available without special ordering it from the place that sells welding supplies around here. I talked to a few other guys running welded diffs around here and all of the have either used 7018, or tigged (spelling?) them.

We welded the spider gears together on both sides and then welded them to the carrier all the way around on both sides. If the carrier breaks, I have another or maybe at that time I'll get a detroit!

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll let you know if it ever fails.
 

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in theroy this is a good idea but in the real world this is a bad idea. the teeth now that they been heated and stressed they will see alot more stress than intended.
so now that there stressed from the extra heat and there not welded solid ( the spiders and side gears ) they will probally break quicker.
im a big fan of the welded diff. i did bolth in my rockwells and run with several with front and rear welded diffs in the rocks ( 60/14 botls, rear steer buggys with full hydro ). i would suggest it but dont skip any teeth, weld then solid.

It works really well doing it this way. Makes it somewhat more drivable on the street, and locked off road. I personally have ran rearends setup like this for about 15 years and never broke a spider or side gear. Dad and all his wheelin buddies has done this since the 60's on drag cars and wheelers and as far as I know never busted a spider or side gear. Also, my camaro which runs 9.20's has it's 12 bolt setup like this hasn't busted yet. I don't, but I guess it is all about what your comfortable with.
 

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A good stick welding tip: If you have a sheet of metal that the thickness is say 1/4" thick. Don't use a rod that is thicker than 1/4" as well. Basically the rod don't go thicker than the metal. It will tend to burn through. Oh and if welding a thicker sheet metal 1/4" to a 1/8" sheet metal start the process on the 1/4" sheet (thicker) and push the lava flow; from the rod, into or on the 1/8" sheet (thinner). That's my $.02 for two tips. Always their is more to it all, but these are just tips. Good luck.
 
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