So this is kind of a two part question. I just sold my XJ so now the next phase of my YJ begins. My first question is, with having three different 4.0L/5 speed XJs, one on 30s with 2" rear blocks and stock springs, one on 32s with Rustys 4.5" rear springs and the latest with 3.5" RE leaves, RC shackle relocation brackets and 33/10.50s, I never experienced axle wrap. What's different about XJ leaves than the YJ factory leaves that allows them to be spring over and not have any problem with axle wrap? On the YJ I have OME 036 springs all around now witth 33/10.50s and it rides like a wagon. I want to go spring over to smooth the ride out hopefully substantially. I also might flip the main spring (it wont have any adverse affects on the spring. People in the hotrod and custom car world do it all the time to lower cars) so the eyes are reversed and I'm not riding sky high, with 35s (I have a 29 spline 8.25 XJ axle in the rear with 4.10s). So on to my next question...if I take four factory yj main leaves, cut the eyes off and add them to my factory spring packs (currently 4 leaf fronts/5 leaf rears), would that make the ride too stiff and would that negate the need for a traction bar in the rear?
Spring over
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OME springs have a good reputation around here. Before you go cutting up spring packs, I would look at other possible problems for your ride issue:
1) tire pressure - low to mid 20s
2) tire load rating - hopefully "C" for a light weight Jeep and not "E"
3) shackle bolt torque - 60-65 ft lbs
4) shocks
5) are factory track bars removed?
My personal opinion is that spring over gives too much lift and has too many lingering issues that have to be dealt with. If you deal with them properly, it will be just as expensive to go spring over than to do a good spring under lift kit (which it sounds like you already have). Some people love SOA, and I'm sure it works for them. It's just not for me.
1) tire pressure - low to mid 20s
2) tire load rating - hopefully "C" for a light weight Jeep and not "E"
3) shackle bolt torque - 60-65 ft lbs
4) shocks
5) are factory track bars removed?
My personal opinion is that spring over gives too much lift and has too many lingering issues that have to be dealt with. If you deal with them properly, it will be just as expensive to go spring over than to do a good spring under lift kit (which it sounds like you already have). Some people love SOA, and I'm sure it works for them. It's just not for me.
I'm not worried about the cost as I'll sell my 33s, my wheels and my OME springs. I also already have an AA sye and extended brake lines. I also have some Chevy truck brake lines I got for the XJ that are super long if mine are too short.
Now to answer your questions...
Tire pressure is 26 front/25 rear.
Tires are BFG ko2s but I have no idea what the load rating is.
Shackle bolt torque is whatever the factory service manual says.
Shocks are Skyjacker hydros.
I have no track bars or swaybar.
Really if I use my factory springs, my only expenses will be steering, driveshaft lengthening, tires and wheels.
So back to the question of why the xj can be spring over but the YJ has all kinds of issues..? Are the leaves thicker or wider or what? Will adding an extra leaf eliminate spring wrap or should I go with HD stock replacements with the eyes flipped?
On the note of flipping the eyes, with stock springs (eyes up) how much lift does a spring over actually give? I've read anywhere from 5.5 to 7". If it's 5.5" I'm not going to flip the eyes however if it's 7" I am.
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I think getting axle wrap SOA has more to do with the wheel base than it does with the leaf packs.
I ran Rubicon Express SOA springs for a while with anti wrap spring perches and still had axle wrap.
I currently run XJ springs with a main leaf, flipped around and still have axle wrap.
True the stiffer the spring pack the less wrap you will have for a while. Once the springs are broke in you will get it though.
I know people that got away running SOA for years with out a problem, suddenly out of no where bam it rears its ugly head.
I ran Rubicon Express SOA springs for a while with anti wrap spring perches and still had axle wrap.
I currently run XJ springs with a main leaf, flipped around and still have axle wrap.
True the stiffer the spring pack the less wrap you will have for a while. Once the springs are broke in you will get it though.
I know people that got away running SOA for years with out a problem, suddenly out of no where bam it rears its ugly head.
Ah I gotcha. I need to do some more research on anti wrap bars. I'm not sure how they work with a leaf spring. I know they have a shackle at one end but then I dont get how they work to stop the axle from rotating
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I was looking at some of the prefabbed ones after I made that post. I guess I've never really paid attention to them before but it makes sense how they operate. I notice they all have rod ends at the front which I guess the need for axle articulation. How long do they last on a daily driver? The last thing I need is constant squeaking as I'm driving down the road
Also to give an idea of how I plan to use the Jeep I have 0 interest in rock crawling and I rarely go into 4Lo. I went down a trail in PA a couple times that has probably 1.5 to 2 foot diameter rocks the entire way but I did the whole thing in 2wd. This is my daily driver which is why I'm looking to smooth the ride out. We go to the outer banks every summer so I'm building this as more of a deep snow (Western MD), woods, camping and beach Jeep. Not sure if that'll affect how much I need a traction bar.
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Define 'experienced'. Do you mean there was no axle rotation with torque applied, or what there was never caused a problem? I suspect the latter. Driveshaft u-joint binding can happen quickly with wrapping, but is less likely on a longer (XJ) driveshaft. If u-joints do not present a problem early, axle wrap can take years to do something else bad, usually bend or break a spring.
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Axle wrap can be very suttle at first. Take a look at your springs by the perches. See if you notice minor very minor bends there you gotta pay attention. Set up a camera of have someone take pictures when you take off hard. A couple of degrees is normal anymore than that and you have it. It just hasnt gotten bad enough to do it yet.
I can give you a hand if you need it. I am in Western MD also. Clearspring to be exact.
Good deal man. In in Boonsboro. I'm Building a 49 Ford coupe in my garage right now so I'm at a standstill on the Jeep. I'm just in the planning stage until I get that out out of there but I'm shooting for early Spring before car shows start.
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I pass through there every day. I work down in Harpers Ferry. If you ever need a hand just shoot me a PM and Ill give you my cell number. A 49 Ford sounds fun.
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XJ leaf springs aren't centered along the length either. If I remember right, the forward side is shorter and the leafs are stacked tighter helping to reduce axle wrap by increasing the spring rate at the front of the pack. Adding a bunch of leafs to the pack can help counter axle wrap but the ride is going to be crap. More than likely your tire pressure and shocks are to blame with shocks playing a much bigger role than you think. Get some Bilsteins with the lightest damping you can find.
I agree with what @StanF said above except the shackle torque. I always just used locking nuts and torqued the shackle bolts down until there was a minor squish in the bushing and that's where I stopped.
I agree with what @StanF said above except the shackle torque. I always just used locking nuts and torqued the shackle bolts down until there was a minor squish in the bushing and that's where I stopped.
I never thought about that as far as the XJ springs go. I didn't realize it would make much of a difference.
In all my research I did before I bought my lift components, I saw/heard everyone say the Skyjacker hydro shocks rode smoother/softer than the Bilsteins or OME shocks, that's why I ended up getting them. I really don't think my shackles are too tight. Semi off topic but still on topic...I worked at Hawk Designs as a fabricator for a while before they shut the Waynesboro location down due to covid. Anyway, they had a forklift there so of course I had to see how the jeep did when I raised a front wheel up. Everything moved nice and smooth with no binding and no noise.
Where in Harper's Ferry do you work? My wife and I take the baby there all the time. That's actually the first place she ever went after she was born lol
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Axle wrap is just when the nose of the diff rises a lot on applied torque. It usually doesn't do much other than moving under normal use. I actually mounted a GoPro under my Jeep and drove a bit around the neighborhood testing it. If you have a GoPro, or even you phone camera on a secure mount, have a look at what its doing. You could use an old phone if you're worried, just need the camera operational.
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I work for the Nation Park Service. I am at the head quarters there in Harpers Ferry. If your on the 340 bridge and look up and see that White House. Thats my Office. We do all the design stuff here. Park Brochures and Maps. The signs for the deaf and blind and the exhibits. At a near by location I also support we do restoration of artifacts. Its actually a really cool place. My contract is up in 7 months I will miss it here. Its fun and the people are great.
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What for? There are a few open here. Even though I am a contractor I work IT so everyone owes me favors. I usually find out about openings before they go public. Everyone wants me here as a govvie but no postions I like have opened up yet. Though there are 2 that should be posting in the near future. But I am happy to give you a heads up for anything your looking for should I hear about it.
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