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Discussion Starter · #101 ·
New coil did not help it unfortunately. It seemed to idle better but it did not do any better above 1500 rpm. The more throttle i gave the worse it ran and when I closed the TB it would nearly kill the engine. I looked at the throttle body while it was running and I noticed it ran ok until the butterfly valve opened into the throttle body itself. At WOT, I could feel air pushing into my face but it was not backfiring. I checked my TPS signal voltage and it only got to 3.92 VDC. Input voltage is 5.04 VDC. Ground wire to the TPS was good.

On top of all that, the temp sensor was leaking at the head. I drilled and tapped it so it’s probably something I did: all the threads on the sensor were pretty much gone. I will get a new sensor and see how it threads into my old head and compare to the one I drilled and tapped.

So…I’m back to square 1. No idea what to check next. Maybe the injectors?
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
The only things I have not replaced are the IAC and CPS. I tested resistance between terminals B and C on the CPS and my resistance was in the mega ohms. It should be infinite or really high. It “low resistance” you should replace.
 

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will get a new sensor and see how it threads into my old head and compare to the one I drilled and tapped.
Those are 1/8 pipe thread- it tapers to seal. I know a lot of people use Teflon tape…I do not. For one, tape doesn’t always let the threads cut for good continuity. For another, tape can thread ‘tight’ occasionally- rarely actually- but not be tight, and then you tighten more and it’s barely on the thread crowns and it tears the metal. Thirdly, it’s not the best lubricant.
Pipe dope “with Teflon” rated for propane and fuel is $5 or less and is an excellent lubricant. It doesn’t jamb and tear, and since the primary job of “thread seal” (sic) is to lubricate the threads enough to let you tighten it sufficiently to essentially wedge itself leak-free into the taper- use pipe dope. I’m assuming you used tape?
When tapping pipe thread you shouldn’t go so deep that the body above the threads bottoms out, and conversely you can’t be so shallow that the fitting runs into the unthreaded portion of the hole before it gets tight.

And now for something completely different:
Stupid dumb awkward question: did you try a bottle of isopropyl drigas? That sounds classically like springtime Harleys with moisture or separated phase ethanol gasoline on their first spring ride.
Your voltage being off also rounds back to @boojo advice. I still have that $50 offer out there….
The other thing since the coil is apparently fine: are the valves sticky? That’s also a symptom of intake valves not quite closing. The air in the face: welllll. You had the head off iirc? Did you use a brand name head gasket?

I’m grasping at straws here. No codes since the ‘out of range’ alarms?

That wonky voltage just points at itself.
 

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At WOT, I could feel air pushing into my face but it was not backfiring.
This is a very important clue. Here are some things that can cause this. Bad fuel, a restricted exhaust, an incorrectly installed timing chain, or intake valves sticking open are the big ones that come to mind.

Put a vacuum gauge on it. Perform a compression test. Disconnect the exhaust or remove an O2 sensor and see if it runs right. Take a fuel sample, leave it in a clear bottle for a while and see if it separates. Also poor a small puddle of fuel on an concrete floor and light it. Take some known good brand new fuel and do the same. See if the flame is as intense between the two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
Thanks guys.

The head was tapped with a 1/8”-27 NPT tap and drill bit combo. I tried to be cognizant of the depth and how it meshed with the sensor. I compared to my old head. I originally did not use Teflon tape, just pipe sealant. It leaked. I then used Teflon tape and pipe sealant. Didn’t leak at first but did today.

Also, I never took the head off this engine…just everything else. I put new valve seals in, timing chain, oil pump, main and rod bearings, etc.

The gasoline has been in the tank for well over a year. I did a compression test on cylinder 1 and it was around 125 psi if I remember correctly. I did not check the others but I shall now.

The TPS voltages are within spec per the FSM which I downloaded today. Greater than 200 mA at closed position and less than 4.8V and WOT.

Lastly, I measured resistance on the CPS between terminals B and C and instead of infinite (open circuit) I was getting ~10 mega ohms which is incredibly high but it tells me there is continuity there. The FSM says it’s infinite or low resistance. I can only assume low resistance is not 10,000,000 ohms.

I can get some fresh gas and pump out what’s in there. That is an easy fix.

Any chance the CPS could do this? I figured it’s either working or it’s not and couldn’t be in between.
 

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The head was tapped with a 1/8”-27 NPT tap and drill bit combo.
Buy a pipe thread tap only. Chase the threads. If it leaked with dope but not with tape, it’s not fitting right. It shouldn’t leak with either.
Get a new sensor with fresh threads.
Bad fuel, a restricted exhaust, an incorrectly installed timing chain, or intake valves sticking open are the big ones that come to mind.

gasoline has been in the tank for well over a year. I did a compression test on cylinder 1 and it was around 125 psi if I remember correctly. I did not check the others but I shall now
The gasoline is a likely issue.
125psi feels low. But if all is the same within 10% or so? Not necessarily a big deal.
was getting ~10 mega ohms which is incredibly high but it tells me there is continuity there. The FSM says it’s infinite or low resistance. I can only assume low resistance is not 10,000,000 ohms.
infinite resistance is 10k ohms+ end of the scale. Like no current at 5V.
0 ohms is 100% continuity of course you know that. I don’t recall the spec range but if fsm says “it’s infinite or low resistance” that is bogus editing. Those are opposites.

I’d pull the tank and dry it out, fresh no eth gas if possible, and a dose of isopropyl drigas appropriate for the gallons you put in.

I’m not a betting man but your symptoms would have me putting a $20 on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 · (Edited)
Ok…I got a vacuum tester and legit compression tester kit from HF. I need a deeper adapter for the compression kit. Threads are too short on the adapter it came with.

I also siphoned the gas and put Heet in and fresh gas.


Here is the video of the vacuum test. I think it tells the tale though…

@Boojo35
@fishadventure

 

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Ok…I got a vacuum tester and legit compression tester kit from HF. I need a deeper adapter for the compression kit. Threads are too short on the adapter it came with.

I also siphoned the gas and put Heet in and fresh gas.


Here is the video of the vacuum test. I think it tells the tale though…

@Boojo35
@fishadventure

Is the timing off?
 

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@Boojo35 the vacuum seems acceptable- honestly though I totally can’t recall what’s normal. Completely blank atm

EDIT: on second listen/watch, it’s not completely ok; it acts normal ish but doesn’t seem to be as stable holding part throttle as I’d expect it to
??? And you’re sure your not one tooth behind on the distributor?


The last time I did a vacuum test was balancing a 400cc twin cylinder Yamaha iirc

The gasoline is crap.

You can wire brush the plugs- the black is one of two or three things. Usually you’d say “rich” and it might be. But I think it’s aged gas without enough of the higher order volatiles left in it, burning like turpentine with water in it.
Good gas is water clear.

Does it run up to 1500rpm without spluttering now?

Compression test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #111 ·
@Boojo35 the vacuum seems acceptable- honestly though I totally can’t recall what’s normal. Completely blank atm

EDIT: on second listen/watch, it’s not completely ok; it acts normal ish but doesn’t seem to be as stable holding part throttle as I’d expect it to
??? And you’re sure your not one tooth behind on the distributor?


The last time I did a vacuum test was balancing a 400cc twin cylinder Yamaha iirc

The gasoline is crap.

You can wire brush the plugs- the black is one of two or three things. Usually you’d say “rich” and it might be. But I think it’s aged gas without enough of the higher order volatiles left in it, burning like turpentine with water in it.
Good gas is water clear.

Does it run up to 1500rpm without spluttering now?

Compression test.
The vacuum gauge should be in the green and steady as a rock. I watched multiple videos with the exact gauge and one on a ‘94 YJ. When you throttle it, it should jump to 0 and come right back to the green or a little higher than back smooth. Another video indicates that where my idle is (10-15 in-Hg) means improper valve timing. I know the valves are good. I spun the motor when I first put the timing chain on And everything moved and didn’t appear to be sticking. I took the chain off a second time when I forgot the oil slinger. Reinstalled in the jeep so per Occam’s Razor…that seems to be the simplest solution given what I “messed with”.

Looking back, I don’t remember if I set the engine back to TDC when I did the timing chain the second time. I know I had a screw driver in the cylinder at many points in this endeavor and it’s all blending together. My gut tells me I am probably off a tooth on the chain and need to go back and verify.

I am chasing all these other things but should go back to the basics.

Gas didn’t change anything but it was no bueno. I can run it some more but I think the vacuum test was telling. I have to wait for a deep 14mm spark plug adapter because my HF kit didn’t come with one. So no compression test until then.
 

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vacuum gauge should be in the green and steady as a rock
Ok. I would expect lesser vacuum at higher RPMs. Just thinking about the couple of things like VW bus and a square body chevy with dash vacuum gauges.

That would really suck to have to pull the cover. I feel for you. Sorry
I have a friend’s lawn tractor out by my shop trailer that I was setting the replacement cam into last fall.
He walked over and talked to me and ADD I realized when I got interrupted I never confirmed TDC compression on the Briggs 18HP when I set the dots. I don’t know if I should just finish bolting it together in the spring and try it, or tear it down pull the bottom cover off and check it.

Once upon a time I had a neon timing light for small engines and points stuff. I’m sure i still do - somewhere. I suppose a multitester could be used because it has a coil to check the primary signal volts

Either way it’s 50/50 that it’s right…..

The symptoms could be cam timing off - I just had more faith in you than that. Still do, but as above…numb things happen.
 

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The vacuum 100% should be as you understand it Louie. It should be in the green at idle and return there when the engine reaches higher RPMs and there is no load.

You have mentioned over and over that the timing chain could be off. Now that you elaborated, I get why you keep mentioning that.

The exhaust being restricted can and will produce low vacuum. Less air out means a back flow of air in the "air pump" (engine). There are other things that can do the same thing..... but.... when you parked it the exhaust was not restricted, etc. This is something that you laid hands on and often times during a big project, a NEW problem is a result of something that we laid hands on.

At WOT, I could feel air pushing into my face but it was not backfiring.
I am going to go back to this. This was a big clue for me.

There are a few times that I have seen this. One of the older GM 4 cyl engines had a timing chain. 2.0L pushrod engine IIRC but it does not matter. They used a timing chain tensioner/guide system that had a plastic guide on them that rode against the chain. When the plastic piece would break off the guide, my theory was that it traveled up and around the timing gear and move it AHEAD a tooth. Yes, when you tore them down with this symptom the camshaft would be advanced and not retarded as most timing chain and out of time failures occur. I found several of these engines to be the same way. The cam was advanced, not retarded. To back up that this can happen, I learned a trick from a guy about 5 or so years ago on an particular Hyndai engine that we did timing belt services on regularly. To get them together in time just sucked. You would take them apart over and over in a cramped place. Very difficult and came out wrong more than right. He showed me that you could stick a stubby phillips screw driver in a tooth and roll the engine one way or the other and advance or retard a cam by exactly one tooth by letting the screw driver enter in the tooth and roll all the way through the rotation that it took for the screwdriver to pass under the timing belt and the sprocket one time. I do not know if this makes sense or not, but it works every time. The reason I mention it is that it explains my older findings on the 2.0L engine.

Another couple of times I have seen it on some performance builds where guys learn the degreeing a cam (either advancing it or retarding it a few degrees) can increase or decrease where an engines max torque and HP will occur. It can alter if it digs more out of the hole and has more high RPM grunt. Rather than spend the big bucks on a timing gear set that is meant to make the adjustments, they slap the chain on a full tooth off. Once again, the ones that I have seen that blow back through the carb are advanced.

Yes, I think that you pulling your timing cover and checking this is your best next move. It is what I would do for sure.

I am betting that your camshaft is advanced. The exhaust cannot get out of the engine fast enough. It is leaving cylinder pressure that backs back up into the intake when the intake valves open.

Thanks for buying a vacuum gauge. That really helped. Your engine vacuum is a very basic thing. This IS the rabbit hole to go down.
 

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Also, have you checked the fuel pressue while revving the engine? Does it drop when the demand for gas increases?

My 92 pressue was fine at idle with and without the vacuum applied to the reg. As soon as I revved the engine, the pressure dropped like a rock. Weak fuel pump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #118 · (Edited)
Maybe it's just the pic, but those timing marks look off to me.

Do they line up if you rotate it slightly more?
Yeah they do…sadly.

Also, have you checked the fuel pressue while revving the engine? Does it drop when the demand for gas increases?

My 92 pressue was fine at idle with and without the vacuum applied to the reg. As soon as I revved the engine, the pressure dropped like a rock. Weak fuel pump.
Yes. Pressure was 38 psi. No vacuum and it jumped to 42 psi. Revving up the engine made no change in pressure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #120 ·
Man.

Ok, just grasping at anything here. The crank key is at 12:00 when they are aligned?
Yep. At this point, I might as well take the gears off and reinstall.
 
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