Jeep Enthusiast Forums banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This has been an on-going issue, so apologies if it's long. At this point the dealer has run out of parts to replace and appears to not know what to do next.

2014 JGC, diesel, 112,000 miles.

~may 2022 - 10 june. Went to pick up the kid from school, didn't start. No crank or anything. Lights/radio seemed fine, but laggy. Towed to dealership. After ~month, they replaced the battery, the starter, and a melted wire harness (seems like a big deal/clue??)

Dec 19, 2022. Two days after my mopar warranty expired. Same symptoms, no start, no crank. Lights/Radio seemed fine, but laggy. Contacted the dealer to let them know it's the same situation as May. Since it was at home this time, hooked up a battery charger and after a few hrs it started.

Dec 23, 2022 - late Jan 2023. Same symptoms, no start, no crank, etc. Charger didn't work this time, had it towed to the dealer on Dec 26th. After ~month again, they replaced the alternator and starter relay, I paid for the relay, they covered the rest out of good will since my warranty just lapsed a couple days prior on time (not mileage).

~Feb 1. Same symptoms, no start no crank. Since it was in a restricted place (no public tow access), let it sit for a day, no change. Disconnect the negative cable for a few, tried again and it started. Drive to a place a tow truck could get it the next time.

Feb 7 - ongoing. At work, going to leave and same symptoms, no start. Towed to the dealer. They said they noticed an arch mark on the ecu, ordered a new one. Installed it and it fried. Ordered a second one and found a wireharness somewhere by the transmission and fixed it (unclear it it was melted like the other, or was a ground they fixed). It starts and they drive it to the parking lot. Next morning, they go to start it...same symptoms, no start no crank and after another week have no more logically guessed at parts to replace and no leads on what to do next. They say they covering it, since it's related to the issues back in June when it was under warranty.

My thoughts:
1. There's a wiring/grounding problem that led to the over currant on the first trip and probably keeps frying stuff... but now what?
2. The computer isn't getting whatever AND logic returns/signals it requires to pass the "ok to start" voltage to the relay, so the starter is never being told to start. I'm thinking a brake depressed sensor/signal, a shifter sensor, transmission sensor, etc.

Thoughts? The dealer seems stumped now that there aren't low hanging parts to replace.
 

· My Reality Check Bounced
Joined
·
20,307 Posts
There should be fuses that protect those ciruits.

The connections are tight around the under hood battery jump posts and the wires there don't seem to have been overheated? I think there has been some discussion here about the cable and/or crimp between there and the TIPM being defective. Or maybe it was the jump post to the battery.... I'll have to try to find it when I get back. If I recall that stumped several techs, the owner had to figure it out.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sounds like a corroded ground strap somewhere. Or shorted wiring harness. Once gone bad sounds like a disaster to figure out.

Good luck.
That's been my thought, and I've looked for a list of grounds, but can't find anything. I've been asking/suggesting a grounding issue but they just keep replacing stuff.

This past Friday they said they are going to hook it up to a charger over the weekend cause there is a draw somewhere (they think). I asked if they've been at this on their own, or if big jeep is helping, and they said jeep should start helping Monday. I suspect after being on their tender all weekend, they'll call and say it's fine, and hope it starts when I come pick it up so it gets off their lot so it's not their problem anymore.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,492 Posts
For what it's worth....I chased a no crank/no start issue on my 05 WK for 8 months. Stranded me a few places but would eventually crank and start after much finangling.

One time while on a package drop off for work it WOULD NOT crank so I started poking around and found the PCM ground harness, which looked perfectly fine from the outside, I removed it from the mounting points (PCM bolt and engine head bolt) and cut open the insulation. Almost entirely under the length of insulation, it was corroded to hell, worst in the middle of the insulated portion. But it looked 100% fine from the exterior.

Interestingly, when this symptom was happening, the PRND selection on the dash all lit up, which made me check the shifter module high and low for months. But part of the order to crank, includes the PCM confirming the shifter is in PARK or NEUTRAL. The corroded ground was mixing up that signal and it resulted in no signal being sent to the starter relay,
Full power to all other electric devices in the vehicle...

I had my very well meaning shop chase this as well for quite a while and they never found it, so maybe time to bring it home and start checking things out yourself..

Replaced strap and never had an issue with the no crank again. Till I sunk it lol.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,032 Posts
Yes if the ground straps look fine, take them off. File or grind a solid connection to the frame. Use dielectric grease conductive grease on the spot and re fasten.

Or look for voltage drops with one of those fancy meter/testers.

Automotive tire Wood Automotive exterior Alloy wheel Rim
 

· Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
For what it's worth....I chased a no crank/no start issue on my 05 WK for 8 months. Stranded me a few places but would eventually crank and start after much finangling.

One time while on a package drop off for work it WOULD NOT crank so I started poking around and found the PCM ground harness, which looked perfectly fine from the outside, I removed it from the mounting points (PCM bolt and engine head bolt) and cut open the insulation. Almost entirely under the length of insulation, it was corroded to hell, worst in the middle of the insulated portion. But it looked 100% fine from the exterior.

Interestingly, when this symptom was happening, the PRND selection on the dash all lit up, which made me check the shifter module high and low for months. But part of the order to crank, includes the PCM confirming the shifter is in PARK or NEUTRAL. The corroded ground was mixing up that signal and it resulted in no signal being sent to the starter relay,
Full power to all other electric devices in the vehicle...

I had my very well meaning shop chase this as well for quite a while and they never found it, so maybe time to bring it home and start checking things out yourself..

Replaced strap and never had an issue with the no crank again. Till I sunk it lol.
Thanks for sharing!! I'll suggest this to the dealer and hope it's the same thing. Sometimes I've noticed when it wasn't doing anything, a quick message flashed on the screen to check the shifter.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The service advisor said they'll look into it, but hopefully the parts that are inbound will fix it. Didn't say what parts they are, or what they are thinking needs fixing. 🤷‍♂️
 

· Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Soo... got the call and it's ready to be picked up.

Replaced the starter (again like june) and wire harness (again like June), but this time with one from O'Reilly's. First time I've heard of a dealership sourcing a part from the local DYI shop, but was told they are backordered from jeep and they don't know when one would show up. They also replaced a brake petal sensor and left the old one on my passenger seat. 🤷‍♂️ The advisor didn't know the story behind the actuator line. To say it feels like they found a way to get it started and off the their lot is an understatement, and after saying so was told a jeep field rep was here this week from Detroit helping them. Guess that was supposed to make me feel better. The work was covered under warranty since it's a continuation of the issues that started when I had my Jeep coverage still back in June. I'll check the ground wire mentioned above at home today.

Any guesses how it takes to be back to a 'no start, no crank' situation again?

Pic of the dealer write-up is below.
 

Attachments

· Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Wow going through the same intermittent no starting issue right now with my wife's 2018 Overland hemi, so I am interested in how this all checks out. If this was a 15-20 year old vehicle I would no doubt think starter by all the symptoms but with all the electrical stuff on them now, no way to tell.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Opened the hood today to start looking for the ground @Mp5ben mentioned, didn't see/find it, but did see they left a bolt laying on the side.

Anyone know of a diagram or listing of ground connections?

@Mp5ben where was the wire you mentioned?
Motor vehicle Hood Car Vehicle Automotive tire
 

· My Reality Check Bounced
Joined
·
20,307 Posts
The diesel and gas electrical, fusebox placement is a bit different.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,492 Posts
My ground strap situation was on a 05 Grand Cherokee...your story made me think of it and how it was similar.

The Ground straps will not be in the same areas. Find your PCM or any other "box" with alot of wires coming out of it, then find a thicker possibly braided wire coming from it going to the back of the engine usually. That will be your ground strap.

You will have to get a flashlight, and maybe a small mirror. Set aside an hour to really start looking. Maybe remove and dissect as well. It may not look at you in the face.

Good luck
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,032 Posts
PCM area and around the alternator has a few ground straps. Looking at the ground distribution schematic, there are at least 6 ground spots.

Schematic sez...

Left rear engine compartment, Left end of dash, base of left C pillar, RF engine comp, L side of dash, L D pillar etc...
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top