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New to the forum - looking to get my dad's old CJ running again for the farm.

12K views 169 replies 14 participants last post by  Chowlie 
#1 ·
Hey there - new to the group, hopefully going to be getting my dad's old Jeep running and driving again in the next few months. I know nothing about Jeeps, but am an otherwise experienced mechanic. These photos are from 2009 and are the only ones I could find handy. It's been sitting in our barn since then and needs quite a bit of maintenance. From what I remember the brakes are dead and it needs a new fuel supply. (It has had a boat tank hooked up in the past)

I'll probably be investigating it this weekend to see if it'll crank and whether it needs any wiring help. Fingers crossed it's not locked after all this time. Any tips or tricks about what I have here would be more than welcome!
 

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#40 ·
We are getting waaaaaay off point.
The issue is there is no spark. Lets focus on that first.

Points are super simple. In retard language, with power flowing from the battery through the coil to the points, every time the points open, the coil fires.

There needs to be power to the + side of the coil. 12V (direct) or 9V (ballast) doesn't matter.
The points need to open and fully close when the dist shaft is rotated. Don't worry about dwell, just adjust the points to about .020. Doesn't have to be exact as long as they close fully.
The points need a clean facing surface to insure they ground when closed.
The points plate (dist) needs to be grounded.

With the system fully hooked up, you can literally crank the dist till the points close, put power to the coil, then open the points with your fingernail and get spark from the coil.

If you follow my previous post and trouble shoot the 12/9V power path from the ignition (or battery) to the points you will get spark.
Guaranteed.
 

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#41 · (Edited)
Let's look at page 59 (D section) in here. https://oljeep.com/53CjDj/53-71JeepCjDjServiceManual.pdf

After you look at page 59, you probably will never ever need all of that info in that PDF ever again!

Mr. Oil pump is driven off of the cam.

There is a slot in the end for the distributor to be rotated

Therefore the distributor can fit in one way and 180 degrees the other way----you cannot just move the slot as with a 258 or 304

You can move the slots position by snatching the oil pump out--moving the gear and reinserting it.

Lets not do that now/ yet!

Lets find TDC and see where the rotor button is pointing------

We may need to twist the distributor to meet up----or----take it out slightly and

rotate the rotor button 180 degrees to line up and still have "timing adjustment"

Send your results

Here's how to do it

This is a 4 stroke engine it takes 2 complete crankshaft revolutions to make 1 cycle.

In doing so, the timing marks will be at zero twice.

TDC only will be achieved once.

In order to find which revolution TDC is at, try this procedure.

Hide your keys (will not hand crank and start w/ no keys turned on!)/chock your wheels/ go to neutral

Remove #1 spark plug

Stick it back in , maybe 2 threads (instead of using your thumb)

Rotate the engine with a wrench or ratchet (not the starter) it's too EZ to bump it too far if you are new at this.

Clockwise as viewed from the grill.

When you hear the "hiss" coming by #1 plug-----STOP! ( a friend may be helpful to hear this at #1, the other cylinders hiss internally (usually a lot fainter) when you rotate the engine manually.

Now, we are on/ beginning the compression stroke on #1 cylinder (piston has just started coming up)

We ain't up yet!

Ever so slowly rotate the engine (cw) till your timing mark (line) lines up with zero!

STOP!!!

Bumping with the starter confuses a beginner, marks get overrun, then he mistakenly rotates on around 180 degrees from where you should be (not sayin' bad things, but if you are new to this, it's an ez mistake!)

Back to finding TDC of the engine.

OK, back to our slow-motion movements!

Now look at the rotor button.

it should be facing one of the towers on the 'stributor (or close)

.......or which ever tower you chose to be #1 (textbook position or not)

The engine/ cam/ crank don't care which one it is!

As long as you were at TDC, you placed #1 spark plug wire on "that tower" (the one that rotor is pointing to).....or make it happen

DO NOT MOVE THE CRANK---Your timing marks on the pulley and numbers below the water pump should be lined up on "0" (TDC)

We may need to twist the distributor to meet up----or----take it out slightly and

rotate the rotor button 180 degrees to line up and still have "timing adjustment"

Send your results

OH I HAVE PLENTY MORE IF THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE!!!!!

I'll go back and re-read thru the skimming I did to get here.

-----JEEPFELLER

JEEPFELLER
.
.
.
 

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#42 ·
Mr. Oil pump is driven off of the cam.

There is a slot in the end for the distributor to be rotated

Therefore the distributor can fit in one way and 180 degrees the other way----you cannot just move the slot as with a 258 or 304

You can move the slots position by snatching the oil pump out--moving the gear and reinserting it.
.
The distributor slot is offset. It can only go in one way. It can't be installed 180 off.

Once you get spark, align your timing marks at 5 degrees before TDC compression, rotate the dist with the direction of rotation till the points are closed (they may be already), rotate back against the direction of rotation till the points juuuuust crack open (you will get a spark if the ign is on), tighten the dist down (timing will be close), install the cap and pick the tower that is over the rotor blade and choose that one as the #1 cylinder.

Don't forget to insure the point gap is correct and reset the timing using a light when you are through.
 
#43 ·
If you have a trouble light, you could hook the light up to the wire to the points (-) on the ignition coil. When the light is on, the points are open, when the light is off, the points are closed.

Looks like the ballast resistor was only used on the V6 and not on the I4

Do you know if you have a 12 volt or 6 volt system?
 
#44 ·
If you have a trouble light, you could hook the light up to the wire to the points (-) on the ignition coil. When the light is on, the points are open, when the light is off, the points are closed.

Looks like the ballast resistor was only used on the V6 and not on the I4

Do you know if you have a 12 volt or 6 volt system?
Yes, it's a 12 volt system. It did have a ballast resistor on the firewall, so I hooked it back up and got fire. More on that below...

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#45 ·
SO.... Lots of good news and progress today. Firstly, thanks to everyone who chimed in with the wealth of info. Fortunately I didn't have to utilize all of it, but I did get it running and driving!

This morning I went out and installed the new coil and plug wires. Using my spark tester I noted that there was no spark on any cylinders. I remembered what was previously mentioned about the points opening to fire the coil, so I removed the distributor cap and plate to investigate. I don't know this system well enough to use the right nomenclature, but I cleaned the contacts where the spring point contacts the ground wire and that seemed to fix it. After that I put it all back together with the plug wires in factory position and got it to fire up with gas poured down the carb.

Then I had to address the gas supply. I cut a new cork gasket for the fuel bulb and attached the fuel filter to the pump. I ran my 1/4 line to the pump and attached the other end to my boat tank connector. I stuck my head in the engine bay and sucked on the fuel filter just long enough to prime it and got fuel running through the bowl. After that it was easy peasy to get it running on it's own with a little attention to the choke and throttle.

Suffice it to say, I'm very impressed with how easily it all came together.

My dad came home and got to drive it around for the first time in 20 years, with me in the passenger seat and my three-year-old in my lap. It was a fun day for everyone.

Lastly, we pulled it in my basement to continue working on it. There are tons of things left to address, such as brakes, leaf springs, cleaning, new wiring, and fluids. Once I'm not on my phone I'll fill in some details I learned about this vehicle's history.

Oh yeah, and is there any way to retrofit a newer style of alternator on this thing?


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#49 ·
I don't know this system well enough to use the right nomenclature, but I cleaned the contacts where the spring point contacts the ground wire and that seemed to fix it.

There are tons of things left to address, such as brakes, leaf springs, cleaning, new wiring, and fluids.
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Mild corrosion (rust) on the contact faces is a very common issue with points, especially with ones that have been sitting open for a long time.

Pull the points and with a small file, clean the faces to get any rust and pitting off. Observe the contacts to insure they close flat. If they are off, take a small set of needle nosed pliers and bend the support till they contact flat. Reinstall and set the point gap, then the timing.

I would do this before going on to other things.

Top of my "revive" list is:
Brakes and fluids.
Nothing says "I love you dad" than backing out into the side of his car because the Jeep doesn't have any brakes......
 

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#46 ·
#47 ·
OH YEAH!

Pertronix---the way to go!

Insure you get the correct one for your distributor model number.

Post 13 in here https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/help-identifying-part-4442627/

It took me a while to cave in, but this way really makes a difference in the way it runs, is so simple to install.

One less thing to troubleshoot or maintain--Easy to reverse if it fails.

----JEEPFELLER
 
#50 ·
Your top is very similar to mine that I sometimes use on my '46, (the silhouette)

We remade my doors so that it eliminated the piece that made it hard to get in, with your feet.

----JEEPFELLER
 

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#51 ·
The Pertronix conversion is the easiest and least time consuming modification I've ever done to my Jeep. From the time the mail lady put the package in my hand until I drove it to lunch was less than 30 minutes. The cost from Summit racing was less than $100. I could have gotten it cheaper but Summit said they had it in stock could get it to me in two days and they did and even sent me an email when I could expect delivery.
 
#52 ·
Made lots more progress today - I pulled the carpet to clean it all and started the rewire. Dad removed the master cylinder and son did some vacuuming.

I removed everything that either needed work or didn't work at all. The oil bath filter canister needs to be cleaned out before it's used, and I need to source an intake elbow for it. I removed all of the factory blower and HVAC components, which are probably never going back in. I replaced the ignition switch that we lost the key for with a new one. I removed all the frayed and superfluous wiring and put everything back together with heat shrink, proper connectors, and fuses.

Oh yeah, and we're probably gonna need to find new rear leaf springs too. A few of them are cracked or missing, and the rear axle is barely hanging on. Any suggestions on replacements?

Also planning to service the axles, t-case and transmission if anyone has opinions on fluids. Automotive tire Vehicle Tire Ingredient Recipe
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#53 ·
Folks here will badmouth Crown and OMIX parts because they are made offshore and primarily China. Both companies' leaf springs are made in the USA. I recommend the OMIX because they are better made. I ordered the Crown front springs and one was damaged in shipping--a story in itself--and have had to repair one since installing. Basically the doohickeys that hold the springs together are prone to break. The OMIX springs are much better made. You have to order the bushings for them and install them. Go ahead and order front and back at the same time I didn't and have light weight fronts and heavy duty rears. When I had my trusted alignment shop rebuilding the front suspension they discovered a front spring was broken under the axle and wasn't apparent with a normal inspection. I have yet to install the rears and will order matching fronts before I do, but if one breaks I'm good to go. It also appears the rears were changed by a PO so it rides fairly level.
 
#58 ·
So I was looking into the omix springs like you suggested, and it looks like you can order either 5 or 9 spring versions. Is that something to do with the light vs heavy duty package? Because it seems either will work.

Just for reference, here's what I'm working with. [emoji23] Wheel Tire Vehicle Automotive tire Car


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#54 ·
You have a lot of irons in the fire with this Jeep.

I suggest you start a build sheet that maps out:
Specific areas you want to work on.
What you want to do in those areas
And what you have done. This will keep you from missing, forgetting, or failing to finish each section.


I like to break down by components.
Example
Steereing:
Lube/adjust box
Repair loose draglink/bellcrank
Inspect tie rod ends
toe in

Front axle:
Change fluid
Bearing pack
Inspect king pin bearings
Replace knuckle wiper seals/refill knuckles
Clean breather


brakes
Engine
Transmission
T case
Clutch
Rear axle
Springs
Fuel system
etc....

It also gives you a sense of accomplishment as you tick off each task.
 
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#55 ·
You have a lot of irons in the fire with this Jeep.

I suggest you start a build sheet that maps out:
Specific areas you want to work on.
What you want to do in those areas
And what you have done. This will keep you from missing, forgetting, or failing to finish each section.

I like to break down by components.
Example
Steereing:
Lube/adjust box
Repair loose draglink/bellcrank
Inspect tie rod ends
toe in

Front axle:
Change fluid
Bearing pack
Inspect king pin bearings
Replace knuckle wiper seals/refill knuckles
Clean breather

brakes
Engine
Transmission
T case
Clutch
Rear axle
Springs
Fuel system
etc....

It also gives you a sense of accomplishment as you tick off each task.
Well this is the current work list. Font Screenshot Communication Device Software Multimedia


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#56 ·
I certainly didn't do it this way myself, but I would suggest moving the fluid changes up the list. Imagine putting all new brakes on it, then having to take them off to tear down an axle that you later discovered was in need of a rebuild.


Don't get me wrong... I just wanna drive mine, and I did refill my transfer case for now :laugh:, but I know i need to pull it's pan and look inside now. There was a lot of metal on the plug, and in the oil. :thumbdown: The milkshake that was the oil in my rear diff, now I know I need to keep an eye on that. Engine oil, I changed that before I even started it.
 
#57 ·
I certainly didn't do it this way myself, but I would suggest moving the fluid changes up the list. Imagine putting all new brakes on it, then having to take them off to tear down an axle that you later discovered was in need of a rebuild.

Don't get me wrong... I just wanna drive mine, and I did refill my transfer case for now [emoji23], but I know i need to pull it's pan and look inside now. There was a lot of metal on the plug, and in the oil. [emoji107] The milkshake that was the oil in my rear diff, now I know I need to keep an eye on that. Engine oil, I changed that before I even started it.
Eh, I don't have them listed by priority. Haha but yes, all fluids and filters are gonna be done before we pull it out again!

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#61 · (Edited)
Thanks for the replies there - guess I'll go with the 5 leaf set just for the better ride. You're right, not gonna doing a ton of hard work with it. Might load up the back with some wood on occasion is probably about it.

So, I mentioned I'd give a little more background info. Dad came over to take a look the day I got out if out of the barn and was definitely happy to see it running again. Said it felt like the old days. lol

At 19 years old, my dad bought this jeep in 1976. He drove it in and out of the hollow they lived in to get to work. The following winter he completely flipped it over in the snow and got injured pretty badly. The windshield broke and cut through his jacket, leaving a gnarly scar on his forearm. He had some other injures as well, but fortunately recovered quickly. The Jeep ran upside down for a bit before he got it shut off, which apparently damaged the crankshaft. The next spring he completely rebuilt the engine with the help of his friend, a diesel mechanic who spent time in Vietnam. He recalled the confusion they had on the distributor rotation, and after finding out it turns counter-clockwise the engine fired right up.

I don't know if it's obvious or not, but we're really just doing the bare-minimum to get it running and driving for now. (Brakes, fluids, broken parts, etc.) As long as I know we won't burn up a differential or something I'll be happy. It's for that reason I'm just going to replace the rear springs and leave the front alone until I think they need changing. We probably won't ever get it aligned (unless we do it ourselves with a tape measure) just because we'll only be using it off-road. I do want to inspect the front end thoroughly and be sure to grease all the components. I'm sure it'll be easy to do when we take all the wheels off for the brake hardware.

I'm currently searching out these answers, but... what are the preferred fluids for the Transmission and T-case? It seems they share oil, or at least started sharing oil after a certain point. (Model CJ-2A S/N 24196, which is 1946?) I'm not afraid to splurge on high-quality synthetics. The FSM calls for SAE 80/90 GL4 gear lube in the Borg Warner T90 and D18. I have a few quarts of Royal Purple 75-90 gear oil leftover from when I changed the oil in my Dodge Ram 2500, and according to the website it's safe for yellow metals and synchronizers.

I'll just top off the front and rear differentials to make sure there aren't any leaky seals before I completely drain and clean them.
 

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#63 ·
Thanks for the replies there - guess I'll go with the 5 leaf set just for the better ride. You're right, not gonna doing a ton of hard work with it. Might load up the back with some wood on occasion is probably about it.

So, I mentioned I'd give a little more background info. Dad came over to take a look the day I got out if out of the barn and was definitely happy to see it running again. Said it felt like the old days. lol

At 19 years old, my dad bought this jeep in 1976. He drove it in and out of the hollow they lived in to get to work. The following winter he completely flipped it over in the snow and got injured pretty badly. The windshield broke and cut through his jacket, leaving a gnarly scar on his forearm. He had some other injures as well, but fortunately recovered quickly. The Jeep ran upside down for a bit before he got it shut off, which apparently damaged the crankshaft. The next spring he completely rebuilt the engine with the help of his friend, a diesel mechanic who spent time in Vietnam. He recalled the confusion they had on the distributor rotation, and after finding out it turns counter-clockwise the engine fired right up.

I don't know if it's obvious or not, but we're really just doing the bare-minimum to get it running and driving for now. (Brakes, fluids, broken parts, etc.) As long as I know we won't burn up a differential or something I'll be happy. It's for that reason I'm just going to replace the rear springs and leave the front alone until I think they need changing. We probably won't ever get it aligned (unless we do it ourselves with a tape measure) just because we'll only be using it off-road. I do want to inspect the front end thoroughly and be sure to grease all the components. I'm sure it'll be easy to do when we take all the wheels off for the brake hardware.

I'm currently searching out these answers, but... what are the preferred fluids for the Transmission and T-case? It seems they share oil, or at least started sharing oil after a certain point. (Model CJ-2A S/N 24196, which is 1946?) I'm not afraid to splurge on high-quality synthetics. The FSM calls for SAE 80/90 GL4 gear lube in the Borg Warner T90 and D18. I have a few quarts of Royal Purple 75-90 gear oil leftover from when I changed the oil in my Dodge Ram 2500, and according to the website it's safe for yellow metals and synchronizers.

I'll just top off the front and rear differentials to make sure there aren't any leaky seals before I completely drain and clean them.
Super cool that Dad gets to see it come back to life. Heck of a history too. lol

As to your oil..... maybe do some more reading on that. I don't know about your gearboxes, but I sifted through a bunch of threads while I was trying to figure it out. The GL-4 rating might be important. SOME of the newer GL-5 stuff may be safe for the synchros and thrust washers, and "backwards compatible" to the GL-4..... but the transmission might not like it? Plenty of guys complained the GL-5 made for shifting issues. I noticed in reading reviews elsewhere, that some Nissans and European vehicles had a similar problem. GL-5 bad, GL-4 good, at least in those instances. Must be something to it. :dunno: For your uses though, might not matter?

I picked up a CRC product, Sta-Lube, from NAPA. GL-4 in an 85w-90 if I remember right. It was like $45 for a gallon? Wife picked it up actually, paid $1 for their fancy reusable bag, and got 20% off. My wife is cheap, and doesn't take flack from anyone. It's sometimes beneficial to send her out for things. She gets results. :laugh:
 
#66 ·
It doesn't really look too bad to be honest.

I'd take a power washer to it first and see what's under all that dirt

Might need a few body mounts also.. Can't quite figure out what's going on with picture #3
Nice to hear you don't think it's all that bad. Definitely taking a pressure washer to it ASAP.

The body mounts appear to have been replaced with channel iron years and years ago. The body is propped up with assorted pieces of scrap steel which is keeping it attached to the frame.

Picture 3 is basically showing one of the rear leaf springs sticking really far out of the pack and almost touching the underside of the body. Kind of a wonder it can be moved at all without the rear axle just falling off.
 
#67 ·
Looks like Dad really got his use out of the old dog, before he stopped feeding it years ago!
 
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#68 ·
Pict 1:
PTO
Parking brake cable missing
Output seal/shim pack leaking
Pict 3:
Broken/missing springs
I would ditch the coil over shocks. Shock mounts aren't built to carry vehicle weight and will eventually break.
Pict 4:
'Broken/missing body mount.
You will want to check the pedal pivots as they wear out over time.
Pict6:
9" non self adjusting brakes. Lots of possible upgrades there. They go hand in hand with a single master cylinder, which should be upgraded also.
I'm betting those knuckles are dry. You might want to dissemble them and inspect the bearings to insure the upper ones are serviceable. The seals should be replaced, but if they are somewhat serviceable, you can replace them (after cleaning the knuckle surface) and fill the knjuckle with a mix of grease and 90WT.
Again, I would replace those shocks.

Again, you're gonna need to replace the springs and the shocks, I would opt for the 2.5 lift.
 
#71 ·
Yeah, I'll probably have to do a lot of work to get the parking brake working. Then again, the lever moves freely, so maybe not?
How difficult is the output seal? Drop the shaft, pull it out and tap a new one in?
We already have the new master cylinder on, just need to finish up everything else. I'm sure it's possible to upgrade and, as much as I'd love to, this is strictly a budget build for right now.
Definitely want to clean and lube the knuckles.
I'll look into new shocks.

MTS Fuel tank http://www.mtscompany.com/jeep.htm part number 0041. American made.
Not really interested right now, but I'll save that link for later. The portable boat tanks work surprisingly well and we don't have to transfer fuel from a separate can into a built-in tank.

Take a hard look at the steering box. wear in the pitman shaft contact points and the bushings. The contact points will wear down or chip, causing looseness in the box. The bushings will aslo wear, allowing the shaft to rock in the housing. They should run 90WT not grease.

Also check the bellcrank. They are prone to vertical movement, equating in excessive steering slop.
Both are rebuildable, which will make the steering acceptable, but The cumulative effect of the system can make the steering seriously vague and sloppy. A conversion to a single drag link, or better, a Saginaw box on the front rail will vastly improve steering.
I was actually shocked that the steering is so tight. I have a 2nd gen Dodge, so I know what slop feels like! :rofl: Fortunately I think I can get away with a cleaning and inspection for right now.
 
#70 ·
Take a hard look at the steering box. wear in the pitman shaft contact points and the bushings. The contact points will wear down or chip, causing looseness in the box. The bushings will aslo wear, allowing the shaft to rock in the housing. They should run 90WT not grease.

Also check the bellcrank. They are prone to vertical movement, equating in excessive steering slop.
Both are rebuildable, which will make the steering acceptable, but The cumulative effect of the system can make the steering seriously vague and sloppy. A conversion to a single drag link, or better, a Saginaw box on the front rail will vastly improve steering.
 
#72 ·
Rear seal involves removing the yoke nut, yoke/brake drum. From there you will want to insure it is the seal leaking and not the shim pack. You can usually tell by double checking the housing bolts for tightness and observing any oil tracking. I they are tight , then inspect the yoke to insure it isn't grooved. If it is the seal, you can either pry it out or remove the housing to get the seal out.


As for the parking brake, inspect the shoes to insure they are serviceable. If they are, adjust the shoes, then attach the cable clevis to the arm. Adjust the cable and you are in.
 
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#73 ·
Tonight we started dropping the old springs. Everything was pretty crusty, and the top shock mount was ripped out on the right side. (Probably due to the spring-over shocks, as suggested above) We had to cut the u bolts off the axle to get it loose. We got the nuts off the spring mount bolts but they won't budge out of the mounts. I'll grab an air hammer soon and maybe that'll help.

The brakes look pretty good under the hubs. Unfortunately it looks like I'll need a front seal for the rear differential because it started leaking oil when it was tipped downward, and one of the u-joints is loose.

All in a day's work I suppose.

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#74 ·
Some heat and a new air chisel made quick work of the bushings. Ready to place another order from Kaiserwillys for u-bolts and other small items.

I did a quick inspection of the parking brake and I could see the shoes moving in and out with the lever. Absolutely none of the hardware remains for it though. Wood Gas Automotive exterior Brick Bumper
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#76 ·
I did that with the punch tip on my air hammer. Lol I had to burn the rubber out of it first with the torch, then the outer part was stuck in there pretty good.

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#78 ·
For stubborn sleeves, you can cut it with a hack saw. I like to cut a simple slot with a sawzall. That will loosen it up and then it will usually tap right out.
 
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