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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Considering every connection on the rig that I have seen has been crimped not soldered and came from the factory that way, yeah crimps work fine most of the time. But soldering is better.

When I am doing a personal job on the Jeep, she gets solder wherever possible so I can be confident that if a problem arises, I know that connection is not the failure point. But I still have lots of places where I only crimped. Lots.
How much wiring work do you do on your Jeep please Gman?
 

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Why don't they send anything into space crimped please Hi?
I couldn't crimp anything in the Army either, and I was a simple 52D Power Generation Equipment Repairman. No jets, no rockets, no missile defense. Just generators. But each and every unit supports one another as such everything needs to be flawless, at least in the sense of introducing as few failure points as humanly possible. Military spec can be defined quite simply as "If it can be done a better way, it shall be". If I was terminating a multi-conductor cable with 50 individual wires, and nicked just one, I would have to redo the entire cable. I got into the habit of making cables much longer than necessary, so if I eff'd up, I could just cut the end off and start again. Not only were we not allowed to use crimps, we couldn't splice with simple solder and heat shrink. A splice in a 50 conductor cable would be a 50 pin military spec weatherproof threaded connector, with solder cups on both the male and female ends.
 
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I couldn't crimp anything in the Army either, and I was a simple 52D Power Generation Equipment Repairman. No jets, no rockets, no missile defense. Just generators. But each and every unit supports one another as such everything needs to be flawless, at least in the sense of introducing as few failure points as humanly possible. Military spec can be defined quite simply as "If it can be done a better way, it shall be". If I was terminating a multi-conductor cable with 50 individual wires, and nicked just one, I would have to redo the entire cable. I got into the habit of making cables much longer than necessary, so if I eff'd up, I could just cut the end off and start again. Not only were we not allowed to use crimps, we couldn't splice with simple solder and heat shrink. A splice in a 50 conductor cable would be a 50 pin military spec weatherproof threaded connector, with solder cups on both the male and female ends.
Thanks Mr B.

Were your soldered joints supported against vibration please?
 

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Thanks Mr B.

Were your soldered joints supported against vibration please?
The large units I worked on, up to 750kW, all had the turbo diesel engines and gensets on hydraulic mounts, completely isolated from the control electronics. Beyond that the diesels themselves had counter balance shafts and actually ran pretty smooth, plus all control cabinets and operator panels were mounted on rubber isolators. In short, vibration was not an issue.
 
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
The large units I worked on, up to 750kW, all had the turbo diesel engines and gensets on hydraulic mounts, completely isolated from the control electronics. Beyond that the diesels themselves had counter balance shafts and actually ran pretty smooth, plus all control cabinets and operator panels were mounted on rubber isolators. In short, vibration was not an issue.
Thanks Mr B (y)
 

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Considering every connection on the rig that I have seen has been crimped not soldered and came from the factory that way, yeah crimps work fine most of the time.
All the time. Sometimes it's easier to solder.

But soldering is better.
Disagree. Connectors are better.

I've seen plenty of soldered connections get work hardened at the end of the joint and fail. That's why they don't use them in anything that flies. If your car poops out, you pull over and its NBD.

But sometimes it's a lot easier to properly fix a wire with solder, so I'm willing to take the tradeoff.

Given a choice, I'll crimp every single time no matter what the application.
 

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Why don't they send anything into space crimped please Hi?
Think of crimping as bolting metal together. Think of soldering as welding metal together. They both work well, but I know what I would pick. Soldering will chemically join the metal. Solder flows.That leaves no room for air and oxidation to occur. But crimping provides rigidity and stress relief when it is needed. Crimping + soldering is the ultimate. That's why I mentioned soldering your crimps.

Aerospace and military do what is best. Cost doesn't matter. They plate contacts with iridium, which won't oxidize, even though iridium doesn't naturally occur on the planet. Lots of gold plating too. Silver is the best conductor known, but it will oxidize easily, so gold it is. There is a reason Voyager 1 is still transmitting.
 

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There are many different techniques and opinions for splicing two wires together. The "Western Union Splice" was developed by Western Union Telegraph Company, yeah that guy you see in the old Western Shows tapping out a Telegraph in morse code to alert the Sheriff on the next town that the Bank Robbers were coming. It was used to add strength to a large gauge "Solid Copper Conductor" telegraph wire splice (not soldered just bare wire). It was an arial cable run from pole to pole. It is a very old technique that has served its purpose.

There are a few reasons why "Stranded Copper Wire" is used for electronics. One is for flexibility to ease of routing the wire. Another is to allow the electrons to flow smoothly through the wire, any disruption of the twisting of the strands in the can interfere with the signal. Therefore, you do not want to pinch the wire, or interfere with the twisting of the stands if you can avoid it. Talk to any Electrical Engineer and they will confirm this.

You can see this in the NASA Technical Standard (Attached PDF). Having served as an Avionics Specialist in the USAF and now a Telecommunications Cabling Design Engineer I can tell you that Cabling Technology has greatly advanced since the Western Union. Even the twist in your four pair CAT5 cables used in Networks is critical to the flow of the signals. I won't go into the balancing of the positive and negative signals on a twisted pair right here, but that is how the cable can be "unshielded" and still work for a 5 Volt DC signal.

In my honest opinion the NASA Technical Standard, Lash Splice on page 69 is the best Splice Technique to use on an automobile. Given that the wire is not under stress or subject to excessive vibrations, and that you add some Harbor Freight Marine Heat Shrink and enclose it in some Split Loom Tubing. Last Summer I replaced the dreaded C302 Connector in the Driver's Door Rubber Boot with 10 (ten) New Pigtails that were then spliced in under the dash to the harness. I used the "Lash Splice" Technique from NASA, Harbor Freight Marine Heat Shrink and enclosed it in some Split Loom Tubing which got tucked in under the kick panel. It worked great. Time consuming, but that's what it takes to get a quality job that you won ever have to worry about failing.


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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
A guy writing on another forum summed it up thus for me: -
"Most important is to guide and fix cables and cable bundles correctly, to keep stress away from joints and connectors."
Battery cables, and door looms on WJs seem doomed.
They also seem liable to vibration.
They are soldered joints.

The ground link between engine and firewall seem very much at risk of being shaken to death?
Yet I haven't noticed anyone moaning about failure between crimp and cable.





 

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Battery cables, and door looms on WJs seem doomed.
But for different reasons.

Battery cables, for lack of a better term, 'wear out'. After a while the jacket "shrinks" leaving exposed wire between the lug and the jacket. It acts as a wick and any corrosion from the terminals goes in there, oziding the cable from the inside out.

Battery cables were always consumable items (like tires or windshield wipers) but the OE's started making them proprietary and vehicle specific in the 80s. Now we are here, and everyone "checks" their cables looking for physical breaks, which is wrong. You can't visually check the inside of a cable.

Of note, I changed the cables on my 96 XJ four times from 96 to 2010. My WJ has never had the cables changed! I re ended them because it was convenient, and now they'll last the rest of my life.

They also seem liable to vibration.
They are soldered joints.
The door jam is NOT soldered, BUT.

The failure in WJ door jambs is because the insulation gets brittle, cracks, and forces the exposed copper to flex in a way it was never supposed to. The copper gets work hardened and fails.

So, soldered joints are asking for the same fate.

If the solder joint is stuck inside a wire harness somewhere wrapped up, it's NBD. If it's left hanging out in a door jamb it's just waiting to be work hardened and broken, although not nearly as bad as a naked wire surrounded by rock hard (and broken) insulation.

Wiring isn't made to last forever, it's made to last the warranty period of the vehicle.

The ground link between engine and firewall seem very much at risk of being shaken to death?
Yet I haven't noticed anyone moaning about failure between crimp and cable.
I've seen them corrode away into two places more than once. That wasn't from vibration directly. That was ultimately the cause of all the problems in this video.

On an unrelated note, everyone who's going to have and drive a DIY vintage car needs to get tuned up on this sort of diagnostic stuff, and ScannerDanner's videos are really, really awesome. He teaches diagnostics at a trade school. The techniques he teaches are awesome.

 

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Discussion Starter · #38 · (Edited)
Thanks Sean.
Yeah, I like those one step soldered thingies too.

Have you tried heating then with a small flame at all please?

Or have you come across a neat little heat gun perhaps?
 

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Thanks Curly.

Soldering on a bench with good light, and those lovely tools for holding the wire in place is one thing.
Lying on your back soldering joints under a car by the light of a lamp is another thing.
It's easier to solder and shrink in a constrained area than it is to use connectors (if you know what you are doing)

I have a fancy Hakko solder station (you can get a decent adjustable soldering iron for under $40), but the secret is some additional rosin flux on the wires (because the lead free solder doesn't flow nearly as well as the old stuff, and I don't know why).
 
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