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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know you chaps are frightfully keen on soldering wires together.

However, here's a shot of a couple of 1.5mm2 wires I joined with a 2.5mm2 crimp ferrule.

Two 16 awg wires with a 14 awg crimp ferrule.

It just needs a bit of heat shrink to complete the job.
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The newest method that I have seen is to fan out the ends and mash them into each other. Creating a continuous straight path. Then solder them, then shrink tube. The splice just becomes a slightly enlarged area of wire with a straight path. In the 80's we (or at least I) were twisting them together and soldering then adding a wire nut. That's a poor path for electrons when I think about it now. Check YouTube or Pinterest for ideas and vids
 

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The next step is to add some marine grade heatshrink. It has an inner lining that melts when the heat is applied to shrink the tubing and seals out air and moisture. Especially important for connections that are exposed to the elements. (The worst thing you can do for connections exposed to the elements is to use those ScotchLock connectors that pierce the insulation of both wires. Once wet, the wires will start corroding under the insulation). :(

I've also seen insulated crimp connectors that have the marine grade heatshrink instead of the typical hard plastic insulation.

If you want to learn the best way to join two wires, look into aircraft wiring repairs. Those folks are required to work at an entirely different level. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The newest method that I have seen is to fan out the ends and mash them into each other. Creating a continuous straight path. Then solder them, then shrink tube. The splice just becomes a slightly enlarged area of wire with a straight path. In the 80's we (or at least I) were twisting them together and soldering then adding a wire nut. That's a poor path for electrons when I think about it now. Check YouTube or Pinterest for ideas and vids
Thanks 19.

Why do you think 2 multi strand copper wires crushed intimately together in an airtight joint in a crimped ferrule is a poor path for electrons please?
 

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And then you heat up the crimp with a soldering iron, add some rosin-core solder. Now your joint is crimped AND soldered. And then you heat shrink it.

Never use scotchlocks, they are garbage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
And then you heat up the crimp with a soldering iron, add some rosin-core solder. Now your joint is crimped AND soldered. And then you heat shrink it.

Never use scotchlocks, they are garbage.
Ah, there now, Gm, on a scale of 1 to 4, where 4 is high, how would score getting a nice wet joint on 20 year old wire inside say a door in terms of easiness please?

Similarly on a scale of 1 to 4, where 4 is high, how would score crimping a couple of 20 year old wire inside say a door in terms of easiness please?

Have you ever tried genuine double contact 3M Scotchloks at all?
 

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Thanks 19.

Why do you think 2 multi strand copper wires crushed intimately together in an airtight joint in a crimped ferrule is a poor path for electrons please?
I said that about twisting two wires together - the old old fashion way. Not about your way.
 

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Ah, there now, Gm, on a scale of 1 to 4, where 4 is high, how would score getting a nice wet joint on 20 year old wire inside say a door please?

Similarly on a scale of 1 to 4, where 4 is high, how would score crimping a couple of 20 year old wire inside say a door please?

Have you ever tried genuine double contact 3M Scotchloks at all?
I do not understand your scale, nor most of your reply. 1 to 4, where 4 is high ... high what? Difficulty? Simplicity? Effectivity?

What is a wet joint? Soldered? Please forgive my ignorance, I am not in the wire joiners union and am unfamiliar with the industry jargon.

Sometimes working with wires in confined spaces is difficult. Sometimes you need to remove the harness from the small space to repair it; sometimes you cannot. Sometimes you need to lie on your back with your feet in the back seat and your head on the floor looking up at the wires; wear safety glasses and a face shield. Do what you can.

If you can solder it, do it; if you cannot, crimp it. If you can heat shrink it, do it; if you cannot, tape it. If you can loom it, do it; if you cannot, tuck it.

Never use scotchlocks, they are junk. I have used them, I do not like them. Some have worked, some have failed. They are unreliable. They fall apart. Find another way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I do not understand your scale, nor most of your reply. 1 to 4, where 4 is high ... high what? Difficulty? Simplicity? Effectivity? Thanks Gm, now corrected

What is a wet joint? Soldered? Please forgive my ignorance, I am not in the wire joiners union and am unfamiliar with the industry jargon. A wet joint is where the solder spreads out at the edges.
It's the very opposite of a dry join where the edges tuck under the ball of solder like a drop of water on a well waxed bonnet.


Sometimes working with wires in confined spaces is difficult. Very true (y), which is the least difficult, crimping or soldering please?
Which needs less protective equipment please, soldering or crimping?
Sometimes you need to remove the harness from the small space to repair it; sometimes you cannot. Sometimes you need to lie on your back with your feet in the back seat and your head on the floor looking up at the wires; wear safety glasses and a face shield. Do what you can.


If you can solder it, do it; if you cannot, crimp it. If you can heat shrink it, do it; if you cannot, tape it. If you can loom it, do it; if you cannot, tuck it.

Never use scotchlocks, they are junk. I have used them, I do not like them. Some have worked, some have failed. They are unreliable. They fall apart. Find another way.
Have you tried genuine 3M Scotchloks yet please?

Some pics here Adafruit Guide To Excellent Soldering
 

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I know you chaps are frightfully keen on soldering wires together.

However, here's a shot of a couple of 1.5mm2 wires I joined with a 2.5mm2 crimp ferrule.

Two 16 awg wires with a 14 awg crimp ferrule.

It just needs a bit of heat shrink to complete the job.
View attachment 4133445

Thanks
While I admit this is a way to join two wires, IMHO, not the best or even good. For this to be 'good' it has to be gas impermeable which it is not. If not, it will be subject to oxidation, high resistance, and eventual failure.
Soldering is the only way to make a good connection that you can rely on. There are NASA docs that describe the proper soldering techniques. Am not saying to use extreme techniques, just good basic soldering approaches. Easy way outs raise their ugly head later. My background is electronic engineering and, on the repair side of thing, been troubleshooting damn near every type of electronic gadget. I have experienced more than my share of failed crimp connections and bad (cold) solder joints to reinforce proper techniques. New, old, makes no difference-do it right.
J
 

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While I admit this is a way to join two wires, IMHO, not the best or even good. For this to be 'good' it has to be gas impermeable which it is not. If not, it will be subject to oxidation, high resistance, and eventual failure.
Soldering is the only way to make a good connection that you can rely on. There are NASA docs that describe the proper soldering techniques. Am not saying to use extreme techniques, just good basic soldering approaches. Easy way outs raise their ugly head later. My background is electronic engineering and, on the repair side of thing, been troubleshooting damn near every type of electronic gadget. I have experienced more than my share of failed crimp connections and bad (cold) solder joints to reinforce proper techniques. New, old, makes no difference-do it right.
J
oops, i read that nasa had millions of crimp connections in spacecraft and recommends that over impossible solder connections...?
in a car,if room, wirenuts are fine.
look at and old ribbon cable,34, 40 pins, ez to make
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
While I admit this is a way to join two wires, IMHO, not the best or even good. It's an adequate way that doesn't need a high level of skill For this to be 'good' it has to be gas impermeable which it is not. Ah, now that you can't say with absolute certainty without know the quality of both the crimp, the crimp machine, and the crimper. If not, it will be subject to oxidation, high resistance, and eventual failure. This idea is strange to me.
Whilst I've done a lot of work on old nails, I can't recall any oxidation related problems with decently made crimps.
Now and then failures from amateur made crimps.
Occasionally I've seen battery terminals damaged by acid fumes from geriatric batteries.
I live in a rust belt.


Soldering is the only way to make a good connection that you can rely on. There are NASA docs that describe the proper soldering techniques. Am not saying to use extreme techniques, just good basic soldering approaches. Easy way outs raise their ugly head later. My background is electronic engineering and, on the repair side of thing, been troubleshooting damn near every type of electronic gadget. I have experienced more than my share of failed crimp connections and bad (cold) solder joints to reinforce proper techniques. New, old, makes no difference-do it right.

There are knowledgeable folks who disagree with you 3.

Crimping offers stronger, more reliable connections than soldering. Soldering uses heated metal to join the cable to the connector. Over time, this filler metal will degrade, which may cause the connection to fail. Most electricians will agree that crimping is also easier than soldering.25 Jun 2019
Crimping vs Soldering Cable Connectors: Which Is Best?

What is a major advantage of the crimped terminal over the soldered terminal?


Crimped connections create an air-tight seal between the connector and the cable, resulting in long-lasting, reliable connections that are protected from environmental conditions such as moisture, sand, dust, and dirt.
Soldering Vs. Crimping: Advantages & Disadvantages

Why do we crimp wires?


Crimping is a common method for compressing a terminal to a wire conductor without the use of soldering. When done correctly, a crimp creates a mechanically sound connection that resists corrosion, gas, and liquids.21 Jan 2020
How to Crimp Wires - Company Info

Solderless Makes Sense
We tend to think of soldered joints as the king of electrical connections. Something about the act of heating up a joint and flowing molten solder into it lends a feeling of permanence and quality to the finished product. And soldering was basically the only show in town for the early days of the commercial electronics industry.
But soldered joints have their problems, both electromechanically and in terms of production – after all, an assembly worker can only sling solder around so fast. In the early 1950s, AMP Corporation came out with the first crimp connections for production use, the F-Crimp or open-barrel design. Using this crimping design, AMP sold a wide range of connectors that could be rapidly and repeatably applied to conductors, and that lent themselves to automated fabrication methods in a way that soldering would never be able to achieve.


From my position over the axis of the discussion, it's easier, quicker, and cheaper for an shade tree mechy to make an adequate crimped joint than it is for him to make an adequate soldered joint.

I spent some time as part of a team of three training folks to solder in a workshop set out for the purpose.
Only about 10% of the students, mastered the skill.

Soldering is a high skill, as you admit, you've had your share of failed soldered joints and crimp joints.
Which leads us to believe that neither method is 100%.

I put it to you that crimping and soldering are about as effective as each other when done by trained people.
That crimping is another at least equally effective way to join wires.
And that crimping is easier, quicker, and better in semi-skilled hands.
The kit for which cost a lot less than my soldering iron.

A bit of adhesive shrink-fit over the joint will keep air / fumes away from either sort of joint as effectively as the original insulation.

By your own admission, crimped joints and soldered joints fail, so why only knock crimped joints?
Especially when there's loads of crimped joints around a WJ.

When you have trouble with a ground, do you solder the wire to the ground?
Or do you, like most of us, clean the interface between crimped connector, and bolt it back together, and then drive off?
If there's room for air to get in to a crimped joint it's not been properly crimped 3.
However, it's open to anyone to solder a crimped joint if they wish.

If you are dead set on soldering, an uncrimped 2.5mm2 ferrule holds two 1.5mm2 wires sufficiently firmly in place for you to solder the 2 wires neatly together.

Crimping ain't broke​
 

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I'm okay with the crimped and shrink wrapped connection. Way okay.
Considering every connection on the rig that I have seen has been crimped not soldered and came from the factory that way, yeah crimps work fine most of the time. But soldering is better.

When I am doing a personal job on the Jeep, she gets solder wherever possible so I can be confident that if a problem arises, I know that connection is not the failure point. But I still have lots of places where I only crimped. Lots.
 
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