[jay-h]

Proportional voting is always potentially a problem mathematically because there are multiple 'fair' ways to tally the votes. Each might be better in some circumstances, but wind up being worse in others.

 

[Pine_Cat]

Long-term, the two-party system reduces factionalism, but it requires a lot of patience. Sometimes an unstylish president can lead to someone as bad as Brandon, because some of the voters had their heads up their butts so they couldn't deal with the predecessor's tweets.

 

[93YJ4FUN]

I would love to see someone other than what has been put forth by either party for many many years. It's inevitable that the two left standing are basically crap. Some do better than others at parts of the job. But as an independent I would prefer more options that I can vote on without being an r or d. And no, third party candidates just get hammered and lose, so that's not a real option.

 

[Pine_Cat]

It's inevitable that the two left standing are basically crap.

It's "inevitable" because the alternatives were even worse.

Most peoples concept of an "independent" is the blowhard next door. He's amusing to talk to, but you wouldn't want him to run your life (the blowhard next door feels that he's qualified to make every decision for you).

 

[93YJ4FUN]

You misunderstand. I see candidates that have decent thoughts and ideas that aren't supported well by their party. That might be a candidate that is closer to my own personal views. Without this idea, I wouldn't have any input to who is available for me to choose from since I can't vote in the r and d primaries. That's why this idea might be a good one. Just because they aren't the darling of a major party doesn't mean they aren't a viable and possibly even desirable option for non party affiliated voters.

Third party independent candidates are irrelevant for the most part. So I'm not saying this idea would be great for them. This might start a change on that front. But that would be a very slow change.

 

[Pine_Cat]

Nullifying the two-party system eliminates its advantage of reducing factionalism. Like I said, the two-party system requires patience, and relying on the long view.

Liz Cheney is ridiculously unpopular, so the lefties have discovered that proportional voting may be a clever device for defeating the two-party system and getting Liz Cheney re-elected.

 

[93YJ4FUN]

She is unpopular to the right. She might not be to people in the center right center left crowd. That's the point. A small crowd doesn't get to decide which two people i get to vote on. A big crowd gets to vote on it.

If it subject to manipulation? Yes. But so is the current system. And it continues to get worse as the years go on. So yeah after 5 decades, I'm tired of waiting.

I would like my choices to matter before the final vote. You never know, the actual majority of voters might have a better idea on how to get things done or at least choose better candidates.

 

[jay-h]

There is no universal solution. In the parliamentary system run in some countries, you vote for a party, not an individual. In that case there can (and often are) a number of parties represented, proportional to their votes. Even small parties can get a foothold, and form alliances with other parties to get things done.

The downside, is that you don't get to choose the actual candidate

 

[Pine_Cat]

She is unpopular to the right. She might not be to people in the center right center left crowd. That's the point. A small crowd doesn't get to decide which two people i get to vote on. A big crowd gets to vote on it.

If it subject to manipulation? Yes.

Amazing. He actually admitted it. I expected him to try to buffalo us by claiming he doesn't like Liz Cheney.

Here's my prediction for 2024, using stacked voting. The top 3 candidates are Trump, Brandon, and Liz Cheney. Some of the Trump voters mark Liz Cheney as their second choice, based on the theory that nothing's worse than Brandon. All of the Brandon voters mark Liz Cheney as their second choice, because she's just as bad as Brandon.

Result, Liz Cheney gets the most votes, so the third most popular candidate is elected !

Boiled down to its essentials, the complaint about the two-party system is the better candidate doesn't always win, especially if he's falsely accused of conspiring with corrupt eastern oligarchs (falsely accused by those who are actually colluding with corrupt eastern oligarchs - the Hilary strategery). That might not be enough, so the chinese communist party has to unleash a pandemic on us. Then the combination of all-star balloting and hacked voting computers that were supplied by the chinese communist party allow Brandon to pull off the greatest steal of all time. The founding fathers never could have imagined that we would vote on computers supplied by our greatest adversary.

While shocking, the above result causes the party that was robbed to reconsider its communication strategy. Maybe our leader has been falsely accused enough times that we'll reluctantly nominate our second choice of DeSantis, because it will take some time for the false accusations against him to take their toll. So the two-party system has a moderating effect, even after the worst possible outcome that can occur under a two-party system.

The problem with stacked voting, as described above, is that the third most popular candidate can win, so now we've agreed to submit to rule by the FBI and the media elite. We're no longer a free people, because the FBI/media candidate is the only one who can win under the stacked system. So the FBI/media faction seizes control of our government and imprisons the most articulate critics. Amazing how many people think they want this.

 

[93YJ4FUN]

Amazing. He actually admitted it. I expected him to try to buffalo us by claiming he doesn't like Liz Cheney.

I was using the example you provided. So if in your mind I now love Liz Cheney and am just "one of them", there's not much I can say is there?

As far as admitting to something, I admit I actually think about things in depth and come to my own conclusions. I'm not stuck on some random independent politician either.

Just wanted to clear that up for you.

 

[Pine_Cat]

My point about the current misconduct of the FBI/media faction was predicted when Scalia made his point about the parchment guarantee. Education saves us from wasting time with half-baked ideas about sneakily undermining the two-party system.

We're not free because of a parchment guarantee. We're not free because we have a bill of rights. Every corrupt third world 5hithole has a bill of rights.

We're free because of two-party democracy. Without the two-party system, our bill of rights would be a worthless parchment guarantee. The right kind of education is so important. That's why the lefties have tried so hard to water down education and make it worthless.

Does anyone believe that Canada is still a democracy?

 

[93YJ4FUN]

So I made a point based on something you said directly regarding me, and we're moving on to something that doesn't pertain to that interaction at all. Gotcha.

 

[Pine_Cat]

His half-baked idea has been called out as a clever attempt to undermine principle and strengthen the lefties, so now he wants the interaction distraction

 

[97Mule]

Liz cheney might run but it will be on the republican side and she will get as much support as "heel high harris" and fade away. Trump will win the primary easily. biden will not run due to "health reasons" and the dems will have 10 losers trying to get the nod........ Just my opinion.

 

[93YJ4FUN]

I said it was an interesting idea. This isn't my idea, but I think it's interesting. I appreciate you thinking on my behalf. Obviously you just need people to agree with you or they are a rabid lefty. As I know you can read, I suggest you take a look at the entirety of my posts in this section of the forum. You will see that I'm exactly what I say I am. But I appreciate your labels and paranoia. Carry on.

Maybe post some more videos, since it's always easier to understand the owner than the parrot.

 

[93YJ4FUN]

Here's a little more information for you, in case it isn't reported on by CNN or Fox news.

On December 17, 2020, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican, and 41% as Independent

I'm an independent and would like a chance to decide which two people I vote on when it counts. Both Democrats and Republicans have done a **** job of it for years and it's only getting worse. Do I have someone in mind that would be great? Actually I don't. But I can choose from the pile of crap both parties run out there and pick what I consider the best option. Even if it's a poor option.

And just so were clear. If Liz Cheneys claim to fame is that she stood up to trump and the Jan 6th thing, that's not enough for my vote. Show me your have good ideas and a half decent thought process and you might get my vote. I hope that didn't mess up your narrative regarding where I stand.

 

[Pine_Cat]

Liz cheney might run but it will be on the republican side and she will get as much support as "heel high harris" and fade away.

No, Liz Cheney will run as an independent, because she believes she will take more Rep votes than Dem votes, to swing the election in favor of the Dems.

Sorry Liz Cheney! You'll take votes equally from both parties and make no difference. Her candidacy will be a spectacular failure, like 20 years of war in the middle east.

 

[93YJ4FUN]

Hilariously sad. You avoid responding to being legitimately called out on your own words. I guess this is why you aren't in politics. You would be exactly what you say you hate about them. Think about it.

Man up. Use your big boy words and respond, or don't come after people and expect them to accept it. The choice is yours. Although I see which choice you've made twice already.

 

[jay-h]

We could have had Ron Paul. A missed opportunity. The country would be much better off