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I could be wrong, but can't this also happen from spark plug wires being bad or in wrong sequence? Gas being unburned until it gets to the exhaust?
Here is what I said.

Faulty ignition system operation can create issues also but your high fuel pressure should probably be addressed first.
Yes. It can. But the obvious needs to be addressed. The fuel pressure is too high.

Retarded timing can cause it which is faulty ignition system operation. Reading back through, I am not 100% confident that the distributor is in correctly.

There is nothing wrong with your thinking.
 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I'm not 100 percent either!
Here is what I said.



Yes. It can. But the obvious needs to be addressed. The fuel pressure is too high.

Retarded timing can cause it which is faulty ignition system operation. Reading back through, I am not 100% confident that the distributor is in correctly.

There is nothing wrong with your thinking.
I'm not 100 percent either! But I have sat and tried two different days to do it like the book says (oil pump slot at 11 and distributor slot at 2) and it didn't go in or look right afterwards. I can't exactly remember what I did when I got it to go in but when I was done the rotor was pointing to the 1 spark plug wire in the cap. (Roughly 3 oclock)

I'd like to chase this fuel return/regulator idea if anything just to check it off the list.
 

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I'm not 100 percent either!

I'm not 100 percent either! But I have sat and tried two different days to do it like the book says (oil pump slot at 11 and distributor slot at 2) and it didn't go in or look right afterwards. I can't exactly remember what I did when I got it to go in but when I was done the rotor was pointing to the 1 spark plug wire in the cap. (Roughly 3 oclock)

I'd like to chase this fuel return/regulator idea if anything just to check it off the list.
It is not about checking it off the list. It is about chasing the very obvious thing first. You have a fuel problem. You have high fuel pressure.

All of your symptoms do not totally one hundred percent make sense at the moment but that is attributed to being done on the internet and not being able to see and hear your Jeep in person.

Stay the cause my friend. It does pay off. Lots of very good advice has been given to you. Fix the obvious first and do not go down rabbit holes. Verifying your distributor installation is not a rabbit hole but you have to be able to 100% do it by the book. It is not that hard if you have a book to follow. If you do not. I have some and others do also and can pass along how to do it correctly and be positive that it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
It is not about checking it off the list. It is about chasing the very obvious thing first. You have a fuel problem. You have high fuel pressure.

All of your symptoms do not totally one hundred percent make sense at the moment but that is attributed to being done on the internet and not being able to see and hear your Jeep in person.

Stay the cause my friend. It does pay off. Lots of very good advice has been given to you. Fix the obvious first and do not go down rabbit holes. Verifying your distributor installation is not a rabbit hole but you have to be able to 100% do it by the book. It is not that hard if you have a book to follow. If you do not. I have some and others do also and can pass along how to do it correctly and be positive that it is.
Yeah I feel ya. That is what I meant by checking off. I'm trying to double check all of the easiest diagnostic problems. After last night it looks like I'll be checking that distributor position again.

However I did find my pressure issue. Took off the new regulator I got and put my old back in and it dropped it down to a normal range of 31psi. Check my return line as well and we are flowing normal there too.
Went out for drive and it felt great. Made it to highway speed no problem (and with a slight incline). Then after about a mile my speed started leveling out and it didn't want to give any more. I could smell that exhaust metal heating up. Pulled off the next exit and sure enough, bright red exhaust again.
 

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@Waternut mentioned having a fuel pressure problem after the pump gets hot. With some creativity a fuel pressure gauge can be used while driving. It takes a little creativity to find a way out from under the hood without pinching the line. Leaving the hood popped and up on the safety latch can work but I would also secure the hood another way to be sure. My 87 safety latch came clean off it its spot welds and has no rust or anything so i do not trust that safety latch at all. Tie it down somehow. I tape the pressure gauge to the outside of the windshield when I do this where it is easy to see.

The other thing that is really simple is to disconnect the O2 sensor and go for a ride. It leaves it in open loop and a predetermined fuel program. It does not allow for closed loop fuel adjustments to occur. If it runs correctly then, my first guess would be that you have a faulty O2 sensor.
 

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Although having a live gauge while your driving to determine fuel pressure would be ideal, I'm not sure it's all that important. I'd probably just leave it hooked up under the hood and go for a drive. When it starts acting up, pull over and check the idle pressure and with some rpms in neutral. I suspect that will at least help you rule out a fuel problem or not. Of course, you could just spend the $16 and buy a new pump and slam it in place https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019BTTT0W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . I'm usually not one to throw parts at a problem but sometimes they are so cheap, it's easier/cheaper than troubleshooting and you end up with a new part if you're wrong.
 

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The part of me that requires doing it live is most people get PO'd when I am working on their car and misdiagnose or put a part on that did not solve their problem. I honestly get to locked into that way of thinking. Putting a pump in it is a good suggestion. If you put in a good pump you have piece of mind. I do piece of mind repairs to my own stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
@Waternut mentioned having a fuel pressure problem after the pump gets hot. With some creativity a fuel pressure gauge can be used while driving. It takes a little creativity to find a way out from under the hood without pinching the line. Leaving the hood popped and up on the safety latch can work but I would also secure the hood another way to be sure. My 87 safety latch came clean off it its spot welds and has no rust or anything so i do not trust that safety latch at all. Tie it down somehow. I tape the pressure gauge to the outside of the windshield when I do this where it is easy to see.

The other thing that is really simple is to disconnect the O2 sensor and go for a ride. It leaves it in open loop and a predetermined fuel program. It does not allow for closed loop fuel adjustments to occur. If it runs correctly then, my first guess would be that you have a faulty O2 sensor.
I tried your 02 idea and there was no change. Also reset the distributor and by the book I should be correct. Still glowing when I hit highway speeds. I think I am at fuel pump replacement time!

My only other concern that no one has commented is the fuel in my intake manifold. Does anyone know or want to pop their head into their throttle body and see how wet it should be normally?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
No change as far as glowing manifold still. When I unplugged it I feel like my idle got a little smoother/higher. But after a few minutes of driving the exhaust was doing its thing still.
I did a check of the injectors to see if I pinch an o ring and to check spray. Talking to another mechanic they said to try pulling the rail out and turning the key on so there is pressure. And see if anything leaks. Didn't do that the first time. Still learning over here.
 

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A puddle of fuel in the intake manifold is bad. I never caught on to that happening to you. Yes. Pull the rail and look for leakage from injectors while under pressure. You can jumper a fuel pump relay to make this a more legit test where it stays under pressure over time to check for leakage rather than just a key on situation which only gives you a second or two of fuel pressure.

In order to do this. You need to make sure the 30 terminal of the relay has battery voltage when you do it and put a jumper wire from pin 30 to pin 87. Your relay itself probably has it own schematic on it. If you are confused by this, I can help you further.

You may have just become a big step closer to the issue. But yet hard to believe that you have not noticed a rich condition even while it runs correctly. It all comes with learning though.

Lets keep pressing on.
 
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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
A puddle of fuel in the intake manifold is bad. I never caught on to that happening to you. Yes. Pull the rail and look for leakage from injectors while under pressure. You can jumper a fuel pump relay to make this a more legit test where it stays under pressure over time to check for leakage rather than just a key on situation which only gives you a second or two of fuel pressure.

In order to do this. You need to make sure the 30 terminal of the relay has battery voltage when you do it and put a jumper wire from pin 30 to pin 87. Your relay itself probably has it own schematic on it. If you are confused by this, I can help you further.

You may have just become a big step closer to the issue. But yet hard to believe that you have not noticed a rich condition even while it runs correctly. It all comes with learning though.

Lets keep pressing on.
Finally got some free time yesterday, (getting ready for another kid in a month)
I pulled the rail and jumped the pump relay. Let it run for about a minute and then let the injectors sit for about an hour. came back to it and I saw no signs of leakage. While I was there I pulled the throttle body and cleaned up the fuel in there, re installed the injectors. (I'll need to check it to see if any fuel is in there later today)
Though, here is a side note. The pintle caps on the upgraded injectors I got, one of them was slightly mis-shaped. Which I knew about when installing but to me did not seem like an issue and the company said they aren't necessary for function so I pulled it off. Seeing the old injectors do not have it either. Now I noticed when re installing the injectors this one in particular seated much further into its home. I cant imagine this would have much to do with my issue but possibly under higher rpms/speed creating some sort of vacuum issue if the bottom of my injectors are not actually being sealed. Just throwing it out there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Another update:

New fuel pump, finally got done with that. (Sucks when you are desperate and not waiting for a hand to put that tank back on!) Went to take it for a test drive, got about a mile down the road and totally died on me. Wouldn't turn over and started back firing. So I started looking around while waiting for a tow, turns out my distributor mounting bracket cracked so the distributor was just loose. No problem got a new one. gears looked good on the inside. Replaced that. I guess during that issue, it blew out my ignition coil and cracked 3 of my plugs. Replaced those and I had a TPS, MAP, and IAC sensor come in so I replaced those. Now, I fire it up and its hard to start. Eventually gets going. Sounds ok for the most part, but I have random quick drop in rpms every once in a while. There is also still fuel pooling in my throttle body overnight.
I drove it up my street and back down and at one point and it started idling high, and at another point it almost died on me. I am not sure where to go from here besides changing my plugs back to basic stock, and putting my old injectors in to see if there is any difference. Even though every one says it shouldn't be an issue! I could also try getting a real vacuum test going instead of a DIY.
 

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Glowing manifold/header is normal, most people just don't notice it. Really only visible at night or in a dark garage.

No idea why Jtec thinks you need a cat. There is no post-cat O2 sensor, so the engine does not need a cat to run properly.

Stinks about the distributer bracket breaking. I had one break on me right after I replaced it. Was really tough getting the timing set correctly again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Glowing manifold/header is normal, most people just don't notice it. Really only visible at night or in a dark garage.

No idea why Jtec thinks you need a cat. There is no post-cat O2 sensor, so the engine does not need a cat to run properly.

Stinks about the distributer bracket breaking. I had one break on me right after I replaced it. Was really tough getting the timing set correctly again.
Tell me about it.. I had a hard enough time getting the dist. to where it was in the first place and then believing it was in the right place. As well as replacing every other part of it before having to get a full new one. I guess I'll have spare parts for the next tune up though!

I'd like to believe that the glowing exhaust is normal but I have multiple cars and have never seen them glowing before. I have had this Jeep for 15 years and am very familiar with how it was running before I rebuilt and it was never glowing. Plus there seems to be a pretty distinct difference in performance when I am just cruising in my neighbor hood and when I am gunning it on the freeway.

Still haven't tested anything on the freeway since I did the fuel pump due to the inconsistent idle/stutter issue though.
 
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