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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

I have a 1983 CJ-7 with a T176 bolted to the stock 258cid engine.

Does anyone know the bolt pattern for the this?

I'm guessing (hoping) it'll be the 'XXX standard Ford blah, blah' - meaning it's some standard that I can easily find.

Thanks,
Patrick
 

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What are you asking? The bolt pattern for the flywheel-to-crankshaft, bolt pattern for Bell housing-to-engine block or bolt pattern of the T176-to-Bell housing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks John - I figured it was something like that - something you just have to know to know.

I'll run with that an see how much damage I can do there.

THANKS

Patrick
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
What are you asking? The bolt pattern for the flywheel-to-crankshaft, bolt pattern for Bell housing-to-engine block or bolt pattern of the T176-to-Bell housing?
Hi Keith - My fault for not being more specific.

I think John answered it.

Crank to Flywheel bolt pattern = Small Block Ford Standard.

More EV Jeep stuff, Adapter and Coupler calculus.

Thanks!

Patrick
 

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I'm pretty sure John was talking about the bell-housing to trans having the SBF "butterfly" bolt pattern.

I've never heard of the flywheel to crank bolt patterns being the same as a SBF, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

Correct me, If I'm wrong, John.

Edit: We must have been typing at the same time, John.

Matt
 

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The pattern for the flywheel to crank isn't symmetrical. It doesn't have a name or size.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The pattern for the flywheel to crank isn't symmetrical. It doesn't have a name or size.
Lovely

Just semi-confirmed this with Centerforce - they don't know the Crank to flywheel pattern and frankly don't care....

So much fun.

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Do you still have the original 258 flywheel?

If so, could you make your own template?

Matt
Sure, yes, I could do that. I need to pick it up from a shop that is removing the ring and starter teeth and reducing the weight but yes, I'll have it this week.

Here's the thing, and this isn't the correct thread for this (my fault, I know I should start a full-on Jeep EV conversion thread...), I don't know if I even care about matching the pattern.

Meaning, I was trying to shop for a light weight flywheel but couldn't match the bolt pattern to figure out which one I need - hence the questions about the pattern.

Why you might ask - well, you don't need most of the functionality of a flywheel for and EV conversion -
- starter ring - no starter
- heavily inertia greatly helps reduce the inherent out of balance nature of a straight 6 (or any ICE car) becoming a dampening component - the motor is never our of balance in an EV
- heavy pressure plate strength to counter engine compression slowing to allow synchro of gears - once you let off the throttle, electric motors just don't turn.

- wasted, parasitic HP loss - waste of heavy weighted flywheels - it's a greater negative for EVs
- more I'm sure

So, back to why I might not care - if I don't have to match to the crank, why force myself into a small (non-existent) set of options for a super light weight flywheel.

Mostly because I know a bunch of you are curious how it's going, here's a quick picture of my wiring up the components - in my tv room - god help me!


Comments and thoughts - about the flywheel not how messy my tv room is... are welcome.

Patrick
 

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I believe what you are looking for is the flywheel to pressure plate pattern. I believe the AMC bellhousing you have on the T-176 fits a 10.5" clutch. The T-176 has an 1-1/8" X 10 spline input shaft. That looks like it is a 'GM' 10.5" clutch disc per RAM clutches https://ramclutches.com/clutch-discs/ and the pressure plate is a 10.5" GM/Chrysler with an 11.625 bolt pattern, 6 evenly spaced holes. https://ramclutches.com/pressure-plates/ you can look at different billet steel neutrally balanced flywheels that have the correct pattern for a 10.5" clutch and see weight specs. Then you just have to build the adapter to the electric motor output to match the flywheel you select drilled with the correct pilot bushing hole. https://ramclutches.com/product-category/billet-flywheel/steel-flywheel/ anything listed as internally balanced will be a neutral balanced flywheel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I believe what you are looking for is the flywheel to pressure plate pattern. I believe the AMC bellhousing you have on the T-176 fits a 10.5" clutch. The T-176 has an 1-1/8" X 10 spline input shaft. That looks like it is a 'GM' 10.5" clutch disc per RAM clutches https://ramclutches.com/clutch-discs/ and the pressure plate is a 10.5" GM/Chrysler with an 11.625 bolt pattern, 6 evenly spaced holes. https://ramclutches.com/pressure-plates/ you can look at different billet steel neutrally balanced flywheels that have the correct pattern for a 10.5" clutch and see weight specs. Then you just have to build the adapter to the electric motor output to match the flywheel you select drilled with the correct pilot bushing hole. https://ramclutches.com/product-category/billet-flywheel/steel-flywheel/ anything listed as internally balanced will be a neutral balanced flywheel.
Something like this billet 10.5" clutch flywheel, internally balanced and only 10lbs. standard chevy small block crank flange. https://ramclutches.com/product/1510-10/
I don't think that's exactly what I'm looking for but very interesting.

Quickly, here's an image of a coupler from a EV motor:


The back part is a keyed interference coupler with the front being the flywheel attaching face that includes a pilot bushing to accommodate the tranny input shaft.

There is a 'magic number' that is the distance from the ICE engine rearmost surface to the front of the crank shaft where the flywheel will mount. That magic number is how you determine how thick your adapter plate will need to be. Here's a picture of mine:


Original question was for the bolt pattern for the picture above.

Magic Number time:


I was tackling it by trying to build the coupler first - and that's a pain all to it's self and where I am now.

The small block chevy flywheel - will that bolt on to that pattern AND, most importantly, do I care - meaning - if I bought that flywheel, I would simply make the bolt pattern on the coupler / hub match that - right?

Would it work with my clutch or would it be wise to get a new clutch to match that flywheel - probably a new one - right?

Patrick
 

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Yes, i believe that your current clutch will work. Correct, make the adapter between the motor and that flywheel for the gm small block flange pattern.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yes, i believe that your current clutch will work. Correct, make the adapter between the motor and that flywheel for the gm small block flange pattern.
...and, I'm guessing here, that bolt pattern will be more common in case I want to change it to something else later.

Great idea and great help.

Now, if I could just find help with finding a keyed coupler for the EV motor side.....

You guys have any ideas?

1.25" shaft with keyway.

Two ways to tackle it - interference or tapered - I'm willing to try anything but one of those ways is semi-permanent - trying to avoid that way if I can.

Patrick
 

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You probably will have to send Jim a PM as this might not be something he looks at normally. But it does seem up his alley.

We have an Keyance IM optical comparator at work that no one has had the time to make it work.
It's too small for a flywheel but if someone had one of those spacer rings for a flywheel, I could probably throw that on there and get some dimensions down to 0.001"
 

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Yes please - Jim - you around?

Patrick
Hi Patrick. So you're adapting that electric motor to the bellhousing and you need some way to attach the flywheel to the shaft. It seems you'll want to keep the flywheel in the same location as it is from the factory so you can avoid having to change the clutch linkage. So how to attach the flywheel to the electric motor shaft. That shaft is straight, correct and keyed? That picture you posted isn't the actual motor from the sound of it.

The adapter plate for the motor to the bellhousing is easy enough to figure out. It can be made from aluminum, I think. Hold onto your trousers though, I bought a 1/2" thick 24"x24" aluminum plate the other day for a job and it cost $416.00. You'll need thicker than that. Steel would be fine too. All this material is getting very high though.

Your motor shaft adapter is critical. How much power are we dealing with here? You could in theory cut the back of the crankshaft off and attach it to the electric motor. Is one key enough to handle the torque of the motor? If this adapter is made symmetrical that takes care of any balance issues.

How are you at engineering things? I'll help where I can. You have plenty of money.....right :grin2:
 
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