Emissions problem, Ripp supercharger/Headers (See Post #23 For Important Info!)

My Jeep configuration is:

2010, 2 Door Jeep JK, Manual trans, 4:88 gears 35" tires, Ripp
Supercharger, stage II (meaning with the intercooler) long tube headers
also from Ripp and Borla cat back.

The problem I am having is that the Jeep will not pass New Hampshire
state emissions. No Check engine light but the following codes:

P0171 bank 1 fuel system too lean
P0174 bank 2 fuel system too lean

In looking into the codes it appears to be saying the downstream O2
sensors are not efficient.

I don't know exactly what this means.

I initially requested help from Ripp. They advised me to update to the
newest software. This was a bit of a problem because both my version and
programmer version were out of date. The Diablo guys were especially
helpful with this and eventually they walked me through everything and I
got the Jeep up to date and I do believe it runs a bit better than it
did with my previous version. I was at 2.6, updated to 3.3.

At the time the guys at Ripp told me I needed to run it a bit before
again testing the emissions which was a couple weeks ago and I have put
maybe 500 miles on it since. Still will not pass. Codes will come back
if I clear them. I have requested help or at least some direction from
the Ripp guys but have heard nothing back. Mike at Diablo has tried to
help in telling me that he thinks it is likely a leak in the intake
system. I spent time looking at this today but found no problems or
leaks anywhere in the intake.

I have about 39000 on the Jeep, roughly 20k of that is with the
supercharger and exhaust from Ripp. I have never previously had a
problem passing emissions and after some early problems the Jeep has
generally run very good. Fuel milage was initially 16ish after the
install but dropped to 13.5-14 by the time I got to the 2.6 tune.
Mileage has never been a big concern.

In researching the codes, they pointed me to the downstream O2 sensors,
the cats or an exhaust leak. I have thoroughly gone through the exhaust
and intake systems for leaks…no problem found. I have checked the O2
wiring and connectors for any issues related to heat or damage from
touching pipes and such. All appear to be good. The Diablo tuner allows
me to look at the sensors live and they appear to be working. The cats/Y
pipe have only 20kish on them so I would not think they are bad. I have
asked Ripp if there is any known issue but no response from them so I'd
like to know if any of you other guys with this set up have had any
issues of the like?

I'd normally take it to the dealer as emissions issues are generally
covered for a long time on new vehicles but this having all the add on I
can't do so without paying for hourly labor…potentially a lot…I sought
guidance from Ripp and they were a bit impatient with me just with the
tune and no response at all this week when writing that I still have a
problem. I don't think it has anything to do with the supercharger but I
am also using their cats and tune.

I'm getting desperate here… pulled over twice today by police from 2
different towns!!

Anyone have any experience with this kind of issue? Any ideas? I just
don't know where to go next in troubleshooting it. Any advise or ideas
would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

V

Click to expand...

First and foremost the Headers are an offroad use product not intended
to be emissions legal.

The RIPP 3.3 Tune has the O2's fully functioning and in full swing...
When this happens we have seen:

Water in the gas or lines:

• this will produce a weak fuel delivery after which the fully
  functioning adaptive's can and will adapt to the run condition without a
  code.

Weak Ignition (coil, wire or spark plugs):

• This will cause a rich condition, which the O2's will pick up and
  swing the bank lean... Once again this can happen and will happen
  without codes.

Weak O2:

• New or Old the O2 can be bad, our 08 JK had 3 replaced at 1200 miles.

Air leaks

• Exhaust leak
• EGR LEAK
• Vacuum leak

Here is some more information that we have been able to DIG up and may be a useful Reference to ALL JEEP OWNERS. (Moderators please sticky)

Chrysler Drive Cycle Information
Copyright 1999-2005, EASE Diagnostics. All rights reserved. Information is subject to change without notice.
All trademarks are property of their respective owners. The display of trademarks does not imply that any license has been granted by its owner.
No trademark infringement is intended and no suggestion is made that the owner of the trademark endorses our products.
EASE Diagnostics © 2005

Note: 1996 Chrysler vehicles do not maintain readiness after engine shutdown. The vehicles can be re-programmed to fix this problem, and may already have had a re-programming that addressed this issue.

All Monitor Drive Trace
Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off
- Cold start (Note: cold start temperature is undefined)
Driving Procedure
1) Warm engine up for five minutes (must reach closed loop)
2) Drive (with steady throttle) at a speed between 40 and 60 mph for 8 minutes.
3) Stop and idle for 3 minutes.
4) Drive (with steady throttle) at a speed above 20 mph for 2 minutes.
5) Turn key off, leave off for ten minutes (to run O2 sensor heater monitor).
Note: Due to the limited preconditions provided with this drive trace, NCVECS
recommends using the monitor specific drive traces for Chrysler vehicles.

Catalyst Monitor Drive Trace
Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.
- No DTCs present.
- Fuel level is between 15% and 85% full.
- ECT above 70º F.
- Engine must have run at least 90 seconds
- Engine between 1,350 & 1,900 rpm.

Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five minutes(to reach closed loop operation).
2) Drive with a steady vehicle speed between 30 and 45 mph for 2 minutes.

EGR System Monitor Drive Trace - Vacuum controlled
Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.

Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five minutes (to reach closed loop operation).
2) Drive with a steady vehicle speed between 40 & 60 mph for 8 minutes.

EGR System Monitor Drive Trace - Electronic
Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.
- MAP must be between 0-60 KPa.
- Engine speed between 500-850 rpm.
- ECT is above 180º F (90º C).
- No misfire temporary (pending) or matured fault present.
- A/C clutch, PS Switch and Cooling fans do not change state (turn off).

Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five (5) minutes (to reach closed loop operation).
2) Drive with a steady vehicle speed between 40 & 60 mph for 2 minutes.
3) Idle vehicle for three (3) minutes.

Note: This monitor evaluates EGR flow based on a change of engine roughness (idlestability). Conditions causing un-stable idle will prevent this monitor from running.

Evaporitive system Test

Trace 1: Standard Type

Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.
- No Evaporative DTCs present.
- Fuel level is between ½ and full.
(Note: monitor may still run with tank fill between 15% and 85%).

Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five minutes(to reach closed loop operation).
2) Drive with a steady vehicle speed between 30 and 45 mph for 2 minutes.

Trace 2: Leak Detection Pump

Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.
- No Evaporative DTCs present.
- Fuel level is between 30 & 85 % full.

Driving Procedure
1) Cold soak vehicle, start and idle vehicle for 4 minutes.
2) Drive in-town (stop and go) for 5 minutes, using smooth accelerations and
decelerations.
3) Stop and idle vehicle for 4 minutes.

O2 Sensor Monitor Drive Trace

Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.

Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five minutes (to reach closed loop operation).
2) Drive with a steady vehicle speed above 25 mph for 2 minutes.
3) Stop and idle for 30 seconds.
4) Smoothly accelerate to a speed between 30 and 40 mph.
5) Repeat steps 3 & 4 five (5) times.

O2 Sensor Heater Monitor Drive Trace

Pre-Conditioning Requirements:
- MIL must be off.
Driving Procedure
1) Idle vehicle for five minutes (to reach closed loop operation).
2) Shut engine off and leave vehicle off for ten minutes

IF STILL NOT READY AFTER PERFORMING ABOVE :
(Freeway readiness cycle. 1,792 Seconds ( 29.87 Minutes) AT an AVERAGE of 59.4 MPH must stay within 3MPH +/-)

HOW TO CHECK IF YOU ARE READY FOR YOU STATE INSPECTION: (Readiness tests complete)

For Jeep Chrysler and Dodge, the owner's manual states that the vehicle has a simple
ignition key actuated test, which you can use prior to going to the test station. To check if your vehicle's OBD II system is ready, you must do the following:

1- Turn the ignition switch to the "ON" position, but do not crank or start the engine. If you crank or start the engine, you will have to start this test over.

2- As soon as you turn the ignition switch to the ON position, you will see the MIL symbol come on as part of a normal bulb check.

3- Approximately 15 seconds later, one of two things will happen:

a. The MIL will flash for about 10 seconds and then return to being fully illuminated until
you turn OFF the ignition or start the engine. This means that your vehicle's OBD II
system is not ready and you should NOT proceed to the Emissions Check station.

b. The MIL will not flash at all and will remain fully illuminated until you turn OFF the
ignition or start the engine. This means that your vehicle's OBD II system is ready and
you CAN proceed to the Emissions Check station.

Hope this helps EVERYONE!!
RIPPTECH

Hi Guys,

I want to comment on the message above. Specifically the comment below:

"First and foremost the Headers are an offroad use product not intended
to be emissions legal."

When I bought this kit with blower, cat and headers it was sold to me as emissions legal. The stance may now be that the headers are off road but they were not advertised as such then. I bought the kit when my Jeep was at roughly 16-18000 miles and it had no issue passing inspection at the time. The kit Gen 2 supercharger kit adding on headers was all touted as passing emissions otherwise I would not have purchased it.

That said I believe the headers themselves are not the problem.

The notes above give me some insight that was not previously explained. I am confident that I have no vacuum leak, EGR leak or no exhaust leak.

I have done all things asked of me by RIPP and Diablo previously to no avail. I am currently traveling internationally so the jeep is again sitting. When I return I will pursue the other recommendations about pertaining to spark and even replacing the O2's.

The only thing that happened between when the jeep passed inspection to when it no longer passed was that it sat for a few months as I broke the front axle assembly.

My frustration is not that I have to spend money to fix the issue it is just that it has been difficult to diagnose. My dad is a certified Chrysler tech and has been for all of my life and he is also at a loss to the cause.

Then to be told years after I bought the set up that it is "offroad" is BS. I would also note that when I buy offroad headers for my drag cars and such they don't come with O2 bungs in the first place. That may or may not be relevant but to me indicates the kit is intended to work with the emissions system.

I would not have bought the headers at all if they stated offroad only at the time...they did not.

Thanks,

V

Maximous said:

Hi Guys,

I want to comment on the message above. Specifically the comment below:

"First and foremost the Headers are an offroad use product not intended
to be emissions legal."

When I bought this kit with blower, cat and headers it was sold to me as emissions legal. The stance may now be that the headers are off road but they were not advertised as such then. I bought the kit when my Jeep was at roughly 16-18000 miles and it had no issue passing inspection at the time. The kit Gen 2 supercharger kit adding on headers was all touted as passing emissions otherwise I would not have purchased it.

That said I believe the headers themselves are not the problem.

The notes above give me some insight that was not previously explained. I am confident that I have no vacuum leak, EGR leak or no exhaust leak.

I have done all things asked of me by RIPP and Diablo previously to no avail. I am currently traveling internationally so the jeep is again sitting. When I return I will pursue the other recommendations about pertaining to spark and even replacing the O2's.

The only thing that happened between when the jeep passed inspection to when it no longer passed was that it sat for a few months as I broke the front axle assembly.

My frustration is not that I have to spend money to fix the issue it is just that it has been difficult to diagnose. My dad is a certified Chrysler tech and has been for all of my life and he is also at a loss to the cause.

Then to be told years after I bought the set up that it is "offroad" is BS. I would also note that when I buy offroad headers for my drag cars and such they don't come with O2 bungs in the first place. That may or may not be relevant but to me indicates the kit is intended to work with the emissions system.

I would not have bought the headers at all if they stated offroad only at the time...they did not.

Thanks,

V

Click to expand...

First and foremost, any relocation of the factory O2 sensors and Cat's CANNOT be certified as 50 state legal, and it is why we do not advertise them as such.
Your knowledge of the use of O2 sensors in the exhaust is flawed in that most computer control vehicle system will utilize the O2 sensors for fuel trimming purposes, this goes with race cars as well.
Our standard arm headers do come with High flow CATS to allow for a check engine free environment, which is what you have. What you do not have is emissions readiness which CAN be remedied by one of the above listed checks and by performing the readiness list listed above.

What we do advertise is a check engine light free environment. That we delivered, your vehicles emissions readiness is a result of an issue with your specific vehicle. Our calibrations do NOT mess with that, otherwise we would NOT have received our CARB EO number on out 2007-2011 system, which IS advertised as 50 state legal.

All that said we do understand your frustrations and are trying everything we can to address your vehicles specific issues.

RIPP

RIPPMODS said:

First and foremost, any relocation of the factory O2 sensors and Cat's CANNOT be certified as 50 state legal, and it is why we do not advertise them as such.
Your knowledge of the use of O2 sensors in the exhaust is flawed in that most computer control vehicle system will utilize the O2 sensors for fuel trimming purposes, this goes with race cars as well.
Our standard arm headers do come with High flow CATS to allow for a check engine free environment, which is what you have. What you do not have is emissions readiness which CAN be remedied by one of the above listed checks and by performing the readiness list listed above.

What we do advertise is a check engine light free environment. That we delivered, your vehicles emissions readiness is a result of an issue with your specific vehicle. Our calibrations do NOT mess with that, otherwise we would NOT have received our CARB EO number on out 2007-2011 system, which IS advertised as 50 state legal.

All that said we do understand your frustrations and are trying everything we can to address your vehicles specific issues.

RIPP

Click to expand...

Hi All,

Yes, my knowledge of O-2 need is far from complete so that is a fair enough statement.

Also, yes, Maybe I said "emissions legal" above but I did actually mean is MIL free which in my state of NH is essentially emissions legal.

I appreciate you understanding on my frustrations. They mainly revolve around the length of time it has taken to resolve the issue. This is of course partially my fault as I have been in and out of the country for the last 16 months.

I have however thoroughly gone through the vacuum system, exhaust system and replaced the one Component you guys recommended which was the part from an SRT Neon, I forget the exact component. I have also ran numerous different programs from Diablo. The last one as I recall makes the Jeep run fantastic but still has the "not ready state".

Anyway, I will returning from China for a couple weeks later this week and if I could resolve this it would be great.

I will try the other things you recommend, probably starting with plugs and wires then O-2's.

Do you make a recommendation on specific plus, wires, coil?

rear o2's fail more often or front or does it matter? I obviously want to spend the least amount possible so any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

V

no update

Sorry, no updates.. I have not worked on the Jeep. My time in China has been extended for 1-2 years.

I may just sell the Jeep as is. Before I left for China I had just got done putting in a 1 ton front end as well.

I will update if I am able to work on it.

I have come home a couple times for short durations but not enough time to work on it. I will say it runs fantastic.

V