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Easy-outs... NOT!!!

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I am sure this has been covered here before... But I still need to rant with people I think understand as the wife just looks at me cockeyed when I talk about this stuff..:rolleyes:

Every time I get in the situation where I have broken a frozen bolt or stud, I keep telling myself that easy-outs are useless. I can't count how many times I have broken one and had to deal with then getting it out plus the bolt! In my opinion theses devices are close to useless... Its like my grandfather said about fishing lures, they were not sold to catch fish, but fishermen!!:hahaha: The same holds true for items like this...


If the bolt broke off trying to turn it out with the head, why do we fool ourselves into thinking an easy-out will remove it? The last one was through bolt my freind broke on a Belarus tractor and I was lucky enough to have it been drilled it through, so I could use a carbide mill on a die grinder to cut around it and drive the remaining piece through the hole. I then used the die grinder to carefully cut the bolt down to the threads and pick some out, tapping the rest with a tap.


I heard someone once say that the second hardest material known to man was an easy-out, the hardest was a broken easy-out flush with the bolt!!!

Rant over... I feel better now. :cheers:

Dave
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1. "Easy Outs", are not, no matter what the package says!
.

2. "Easy Outs" have their place... (Usually left on the store shelf)

3. A reasonable quality set of LEFT hand twist drills will take out more broken bolts, studs, fittings, ect. than any "Easy Out" set ever will.

4. Cost of a quality set of LEFT hand twist drills will cost about 4 times what a set of "Easy Outs" will, but are 50 times handier and will 50 times the work.

5. A Carbide tipped Center Punch is MANDATORY.

6. So is Center Drilling and straight through Pilot Holes.

7. If you screw up the threads, LEARN TO HELI-COIL PROPERLY!
If you don't know what 'HELI-COILS' are, do a google search, and get some in basic bolt sizes (1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 7/16").
They are NOT super cheap, but they ARE the best way to restore threads that have been seriously damaged.

8. LEARN TO USE 'NEVER-SEIZE' ON EVERYTHING that isn't 'Torque Critical'!
This is the single most important thing you can do for future maintenance and repairs!

9. USE CARBON STEEL TAPS when threading or restoring threads to holes!
Carbon Steel cost only SLIGHTLY more than High Speed Steel taps, but smaller taps will SHATTER with a sharp chisel and reasonable hammer, saving you EDM (Electronic Discharge Machining) Disintegration WHEN (not 'if') you break one.

10. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN 'CUTTING & TAPPING' oils and regular lubricating oils!
There is a difference between Steel, Aluminum and 'Balling' metals, like brass or copper, so use the CORRECT lubricant when cutting, drilling & tapping!
 

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I have hated them for ages, however I did actually drill through a broken bolt once on a 350 head, used an E-Z out and it worked, that put my score to E-Z outs 200, Tom 1, the broken bolt came out, however I broke the E-Z out when I tried to remove the outer shell of the bolt, so I will agree with #2 from above and just continue to use my blue point reverse drill bits with threaded extractors, they were pricey, but darn sure worth it.

Tom
 

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I grew up on a farm, and my family owned a trucking company.
My hobbies were 'Vintage' cars, tractors, old Harleys and Jeeps...
I owned a machine shop for 20 years.

You don't HAVE to take my advice, but you will spend a lot of time and effort, pain & misery if you don't!

Anyone with a 'Stick' type arc welder interested in building a crude 'EDM' or 'Metal Disintegrator' for just a few bucks?
I found it MANDATORY for farm and shop work...
And don't kid your self, it's the ONLY way to get out a broken tap, 'Easy Out', or hardened drill!
 

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I grew up on a farm, and my family owned a trucking company.
My hobbies were 'Vintage' cars, tractors, old Harleys and Jeeps...
I owned a machine shop for 20 years.

You don't HAVE to take my advice, but you will spend a lot of time and effort, pain & misery if you don't!

Anyone with a 'Stick' type arc welder interested in building a crude 'EDM' or 'Metal Disintegrator' for just a few bucks?
I found it MANDATORY for farm and shop work...
And don't kid your self, it's the ONLY way to get out a broken tap, 'Easy Out', or hardened drill!
Please elaborate! Thanks.

Rich
 

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Hammer,
I'm in...
I have a red Lincoln AC buzz box. A "metal disintegrator" would come in real handy.
Jon In Tucson
 

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1. "Easy Outs", are not, no matter what the package says!
.

2. "Easy Outs" have their place... (Usually left on the store shelf)

3. A reasonable quality set of LEFT hand twist drills will take out more broken bolts, studs, fittings, ect. than any "Easy Out" set ever will.

4. Cost of a quality set of LEFT hand twist drills will cost about 4 times what a set of "Easy Outs" will, but are 50 times handier and will 50 times the work.

5. A Carbide tipped Center Punch is MANDATORY.

6. So is Center Drilling and straight through Pilot Holes.

7. If you screw up the threads, LEARN TO HELI-COIL PROPERLY!
If you don't know what 'HELI-COILS' are, do a google search, and get some in basic bolt sizes (1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 7/16").
They are NOT super cheap, but they ARE the best way to restore threads that have been seriously damaged.

8. LEARN TO USE 'NEVER-SEIZE' ON EVERYTHING that isn't 'Torque Critical'!
This is the single most important thing you can do for future maintenance and repairs!

9. USE CARBON STEEL TAPS when threading or restoring threads to holes!
Carbon Steel cost only SLIGHTLY more than High Speed Steel taps, but smaller taps will SHATTER with a sharp chisel and reasonable hammer, saving you EDM (Electronic Discharge Machining) Disintegration WHEN (not 'if') you break one.

10. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN 'CUTTING & TAPPING' oils and regular lubricating oils!
There is a difference between Steel, Aluminum and 'Balling' metals, like brass or copper, so use the CORRECT lubricant when cutting, drilling & tapping!
X100000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Heed this advice people!!!!!
 

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broke 4 in 5 minutes once, learned that you don't use a long adjustable wrench when using one. Switched to one that was half the length of my hand, and haven't broke one since.

I tend to break drill bits more.

the trick to using "easy-outs" is this:

Heat area around the broken stud/bolt till cherry red.

Take your mother's (or wife's) favorite candle.

Smother the red hot area until is doesn't glow anymore.

Let cool completely.

Now try an "easy out".

HAS ALWAYS WORKED FOR ME!
 

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Weld a nut to the broken stub and then use a ratchet to back it out. I've never had to resort to anything else for ferrous metals anyhow. The heat from welding the nut to the stud loosens it, you can pool up your rod into the nut and create a new bolt head once it cools it will reverse out easy greasy.
 

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X2... I've had to weld nuts on the carcass of several broken bolts. Usually it's little more than "finger tight" after the welding process breaks it loose.
 

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Please elaborate! Thanks.
Rich
Hammer,
I'm in...
I have a red Lincoln AC buzz box. A "metal disintegrator" would come in real handy.
Jon In Tucson
If you have no idea how a 'Metal Disintegrator works, then DO NOT try to build this or you will get ELECTROCUTED!

Here are some links to the 'Professional' models, usually start out around $10,000 with Wire EDM or CNC EDM running up to $500,000!

This one has an (annoying) 'You Tube' video showing how the tubing eats away at the part you want to remove, and you can order actual EDM rods from here...
http://www.electroarc.com/

This site has a video, and you can order some specialized electrodes from them too.
http://www.cammann.com/

------------------------------------------------

For home made EDM or 'Metal Disintegrator, you will need a piece of thick Lexan or Plexiglass (not conductive and rigid) about 6" to 8" wide and about 15" to 18" long.

This will be the backing board for the 'Metal Disintegrator'.

I used a spindle from a buffing kit for my shaft assembly, Cost was negligible, around $10 or so.

I used a cheap spring from the local home improvement store, and a bearing collar stop for the spring to push against to lift the center shaft.
The two together was about $2.50

I started out using a motor/cam from a christmas decoration (waving santa) that had given up as the shaft Up/Down actuator, but wound up using hair clippers that went south. (you only need about 1/64" of movement at most, so anything that 'Vibrates', including some old style 'Ringing' doorbell vibrators will work)
I've also seen the vibrating 'Engravers' used to inscribe tools and glass with, but you will need to slow them down a little...

Anyway, you align the shaft 'Bushings' or 'Blocks' up with the shaft in the middle,
You align the 'Vibrator' head up at the top so the shaft moves up and down about 1/64",

Then you make a hose fitting on the bottom end.
I use copper or brass tubing for 'Common' burns, like taking out broken taps or hardened drills or bolts,
But you CAN, (but don't have to) buy actual EDM rods.

The real EDM rods work a little better and last longer, but they are much more expensive.

Take a crimp 'Ferrel' fitting, drill though the side, and solder in a piece of tubing to hook the water up to so it can flow down your tubing or 'Electrode'.

Some people run city water pressure through the EDM while it's working, but I don't.
Normally, I keep a jug of water (Two Gallon Kitty Litter Bucket on a shelf above) and let gravity do the work...
All you need is a moving water stream while the EDM is working to keep the electrode and workpiece cool, so it's no problem with just gravity,
AND,
You don't run the risk of electrocuting anyone in the crapper!

You will need a NON CONDUCTIVE pan, Rubber, Plastic, Ect, but NON CONDUCTIVE and large enough to submerge your work piece in.

Hang on, I'm getting pictures worked up since there is interest in this gadget...

Well, as luck would have it, my 'Expedient' EDM is lent out to the neighbor and he's not home right now...

So you will have to settle for my 'Field Expedient EDM' version.
I make these in several different sizes, so I don't have to drag the large version out every time I need one.

By The Way,
These work with Alternator/Welders in the field if you ever have need to EDM out something WAAAYYYYY out in the 'Rough' somewhere...

THIS IS WHAT YOU START WITH,


AND THIS WILL BE WHAT YOU WIND UP WITH.


NOW...
With a drive motor of some kind on top to move the bolt 'Up & Down', and with this bolted to something NON-CONDUCTIVE, you can hook the welder up to the bolt shown here,
And the work piece with the broken off whatever, and adjust so the shaft moving up and down MAKES/BREAKS the 'Electrode Tube' contact with the part you want to burn out, and it will remove broken taps, hardened drills, rusted in bolts in SHORT ORDER...

YOU WILL HAVE TO CONSTANTLY ADJUST THE DEPTH OF THE ELECTRODE DURING THE BURN PROCESS,
So I often mount the Non-Conductive backer in the drill press so I can use the feed head (the drill NOT turning, just feeding the electrode) into the work piece...

DON'T ELECTROCUTE YOURSELF!
--------------------------------------------------

For those of you building projects and need 'Odd' shaped holes in metal,
You can buy Square Electrodes, Triangular Electrodes, Star Shaped Electrodes, Hex Shaped Electrodes....
All kinds of shapes and sizes and most are VERY reasonably priced...

Not as cheap as plain old copper or brass tubing, but cheap enough if you have a SPECIAL PURPOSE for something...

AND,
EDM has no depth limits like PLASMA or regular machining...
You want a Hex shaped hole in 2" stock, takes about 15 minutes!

Want a square sided 'Keyway' type slot in something...
Not the slightest problem at all!

Need a hole in something 'Hardened'?
Not an issue in the SLIGHTEST! EDM doesn't care how hard the material is, as long as it conducts electricity!
Carbide tools are no match for EDM, neither is hardened High Speed Steel!
Takes them RIGHT OUT!
 

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Well this is my little problem, I have a 1982 258 that I was given off of craigslist for free. It is a rebuilt motor and is a good runner, came complete with p/s pump, fan, alternator , carb, bellhousing f/w clutch, p/plate , well I mean complete, including a Clifford valvecover. I started to strip down the acc's so I can clean this up and get ready to put in my 86 this summer with a j/y throttle body inj set up and had noticed that the head has a busted off bolt that the alternator bracket mounts too. Broke off flat with the head so I drilled it out some and used a ez out and well broke it off in the pilot hole flat with the bolt. now I have no idea what to do.I have to get some better drills for sure but I hear about heat? Can this be done against the cast iron? At this point I would love to hear any ideas anyone may have. Not out enough to weld to as it may be in the head just a little.. It is on a stand now so it is easy to get to. Thanks
 

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Man, this is amazing. I had no idea people had such a hard time of this. I love mine, I use them all the time./ My CJ is always breaking the bolts on the hubs, so, I figure I use this to pull those every four times I go wheeling. I have never had a single problem with the EZouts. Got mine at Harbor Freight.

Well, sorry yall have had troubles. Good to know I should be careful though...

As for taking out the ezout. Have you tried using a hammer and a small flat head screw driver? Just hammer it in the opposite direction and it should pretty much just fall right out on you. I have never had an ez out that was stuck in there, they tend to come out with little effort it you just counter rotate them a little.

Hope that helps.
 

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Well this is my little problem, I have a 1982 258 that I was given off of craigslist for free. It is a rebuilt motor and is a good runner, came complete with p/s pump, fan, alternator , carb, bellhousing f/w clutch, p/plate , well I mean complete, including a Clifford valvecover. I started to strip down the acc's so I can clean this up and get ready to put in my 86 this summer with a j/y throttle body inj set up and had noticed that the head has a busted off bolt that the alternator bracket mounts too. Broke off flat with the head so I drilled it out some and used a ez out and well broke it off in the pilot hole flat with the bolt. now I have no idea what to do.I have to get some better drills for sure but I hear about heat? Can this be done against the cast iron? At this point I would love to hear any ideas anyone may have. Not out enough to weld to as it may be in the head just a little.. It is on a stand now so it is easy to get to. Thanks
You can try a hardened left hand twist drill, but you are probably down to using EDM to remove the easy out and bolt now...

There is such a thing as 'Portable' EDM that you can use under the hood, but you would be better off taking it to a professional and having them do the removal.
 

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Man, this is amazing. I had no idea people had such a hard time of this. I love mine, I use them all the time./ My CJ is always breaking the bolts on the hubs, so, I figure I use this to pull those every four times I go wheeling. I have never had a single problem with the EZouts. Got mine at Harbor Freight.

Well, sorry yall have had troubles. Good to know I should be careful though...

As for taking out the ezout. Have you tried using a hammer and a small flat head screw driver? Just hammer it in the opposite direction and it should pretty much just fall right out on you. I have never had an ez out that was stuck in there, they tend to come out with little effort it you just counter rotate them a little.

Hope that helps.
'84 CJ with 5 bolt lockouts.
Using cheap bolts will give you plenty of experience taking out cheap, undersized bolts.

With lots of breakage going on, the bolts never get 20 years of rust in the holes, so you don't know real pain yet...
Try taking the orignal steering box off a '73, then get back with me!

Now, if you were to use a good quality bolt or stud and nut, you wouldn't break those bolts of your lockouts in the first place... And all your drilling soft, cheap 'China' bolts and using 'Easy Outs' to get the sump out of someplace it's not rusted into will be over....

That is, if all the cheap bolts haven't pulled the threads loose in the cast iron yet,
Or all the switching bolts hasn't worn away the relatively soft cast iron to a point the holes/treads won't hold a real bolt anymore...
 

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Well this is my little problem, I have a 1982 258 that I was given off of craigslist for free. It is a rebuilt motor and is a good runner, came complete with p/s pump, fan, alternator , carb, bellhousing f/w clutch, p/plate , well I mean complete, including a Clifford valvecover. I started to strip down the acc's so I can clean this up and get ready to put in my 86 this summer with a j/y throttle body inj set up and had noticed that the head has a busted off bolt that the alternator bracket mounts too. Broke off flat with the head so I drilled it out some and used a ez out and well broke it off in the pilot hole flat with the bolt. now I have no idea what to do.I have to get some better drills for sure but I hear about heat? Can this be done against the cast iron? At this point I would love to hear any ideas anyone may have. Not out enough to weld to as it may be in the head just a little.. It is on a stand now so it is easy to get to. Thanks
I've taken a carbide center punch to a broken off E-Z out, and shattered it. Then I pick out the broken pieces.
 
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