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* if you do anything that affects the lenght or axle side mount to the track bar (bracket) it will make your alignment change!
Ecspecially is you have a currie sterring setup
why?
your steering box/pitman arm is connected to what? the frame
your outer tierod is attached to what?the knuckle/axle
the track bar is what centers the axle under frame
so if that changes at all then your changing the steering geometry
there was a post a few pages back where they had some sort of frame side bracket done and then it pulled hard right when they left the shop......that spurred me to post this
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
* if you do anything that affects the lenght or axle side mount to the track bar (bracket) it will make your alignment change!
Ecspecially is you have a currie sterring setup
why?
your steering box/pitman arm is connected to what? the frame
your outer tierod is attached to what?the knuckle/axle
the track bar is what centers the axle under frame
so if that changes at all then your changing the steering geometry
there was a post a few pages back where they had some sort of frame side bracket done and then it pulled hard right when they left the shop......that spurred me to post this
The JK setup is very different from prior setups.

A slightly off center front axle on a JK doesn't really affect toe, caster, or camber.
 

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Planman, your color coded picture and detailed guide helped me get my death wobble fixed. Unfortunately, I had to pay a shop for the labor and parts, but with your information, I knew what they were talking about and that they were actually fixing the problem and not just giving me the run-around.

My issue after a 3" lift was fixed with a new track bar, lower control arms, steering stabilizer, and an alignment. That picture was a lifesaver to understand the process.

Thanks!
 

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Yeah, I agree that this is one very helpful post. I used it to avoid DW when installing my lift. Originally, the OME kit I got didn't say I needed F&R Trackbars. After reading this and some other threads I chose to spend the coin and get JKS F&R TB's. It was a very wise decision thus far. High quality stuff, and when torqued to spec they just feel better than stock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
Thanks guys. The picture wasn't my creation. I linked it from an internet magazine website that uses it for a self-alignment write-up. It is really helpful to learn how everything works in the front end.
 

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Is it just me, or is that passenger side trackbar bolt hard to get to? What do you usually use to tighten this? I have a torque wrench that needs an extension to get to the front side, the back side nut is hard to get at.
 

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not sure how it works on a jk, but you literally can't get a wrench on the back side of the zj mount. i ended up sacrificing a closed end wrench and cut it to get into the bracket then used the stub en against the bracket to hold the nut and tightened the bolt from the front side
 

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Fun Fun Fun

Hi everyone!

I have been reading this thread and just about every other thread on the internet with the word "death wobble" in it for some time now....

However my car still has the problem!

The almost uncontrollable left to right shaking of my entire car that does not stop until I do.. (08 JK 4 door)

I have in the last month or so managed to get it from a vehicle that was almost un-drivable at anything over 95 km/h (55 Mile?) to now a car I can drive at 100km/h and over rough bumps etc without much of a problem... until I go around a bend.... at 100km/h..... and hit a bump! Then its on.

My experience is this....

Brought my jeep 2nd hand with a 2.5" lift from ARB fitted Old man emu shocks (no control arms)
Drove great! no problems

6 months later.... going around a bend at 100km/h and over a bump my car started to shake.... stopped in about 2 second or so and did not do it again.

Rang up a local 4wd shop... he said your damper is probably on its way out... so I got a rancho one and fitted that... It made it worse!

so I put the old one back on and went and got a wheel alignment and balance. that did not help. so i got another one elsewhere. no change. it just got worse and worse to the point that it gets out of control!

Decided to go over everything in this thread and others to track the problem down. I Now have a new front adjustable track bar, sway bar links, ball joints upper and lower adjustable control arms with my caster set at 5.5 degrees (at the alignment shop) I have rotated my tires a tone of times, replaced the rod end that connects to the pitman arm and checked the others.

I have been under my car countless times with a friend moving the wheel and there is no movement anywhere!

the only thing I have noticed recently is that there is a bit of play or a light clunking noise in my steering! can this be the cause?

What now?
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
Hi everyone!

I have been reading this thread and just about every other thread on the internet with the word "death wobble" in it for some time now....

However my car still has the problem!

The almost uncontrollable left to right shaking of my entire car that does not stop until I do.. (08 JK 4 door)

I have in the last month or so managed to get it from a vehicle that was almost un-drivable at anything over 95 km/h (55 Mile?) to now a car I can drive at 100km/h and over rough bumps etc without much of a problem... until I go around a bend.... at 100km/h..... and hit a bump! Then its on.

My experience is this....

Brought my jeep 2nd hand with a 2.5" lift from ARB fitted Old man emu shocks (no control arms)
Drove great! no problems

6 months later.... going around a bend at 100km/h and over a bump my car started to shake.... stopped in about 2 second or so and did not do it again.

Rang up a local 4wd shop... he said your damper is probably on its way out... so I got a rancho one and fitted that... It made it worse!

so I put the old one back on and went and got a wheel alignment and balance. that did not help. so i got another one elsewhere. no change. it just got worse and worse to the point that it gets out of control!

Decided to go over everything in this thread and others to track the problem down. I Now have a new front adjustable track bar, sway bar links, ball joints upper and lower adjustable control arms with my caster set at 5.5 degrees (at the alignment shop) I have rotated my tires a tone of times, replaced the rod end that connects to the pitman arm and checked the others.

I have been under my car countless times with a friend moving the wheel and there is no movement anywhere!

the only thing I have noticed recently is that there is a bit of play or a light clunking noise in my steering! can this be the cause?

What now?
There should be no clunking in your steering. I've often traced clunks to actually come from the axle side trackbar bracket.

Here is the problem: Unless you go through the entire inspection checklist in one sitting, you can end up chasing your tail. One loose or worn component takes out another, etc, etc.

So, even if you welded washers on your trackbar brackets to make the holes smaller, the DW might have taken out the ball joints. Then, before you fix your ball joints, the bushings in your new trackbar get destroyed. Then, before you replace the bushings in the trackbar, the DW destroys your drag link and tie rod ends. Then, etc., etc.

So, the best way to do it is to go through the entire checklist in one sitting.

I have one local friend who ended up fixing everything that was wrong. However, by the time he fixed everything, his tires were severely feathered--causing severe shimmies at certain speeds. It wasn't full on DW, but if anything ever worked itself loose, the bad tires would have triggered DW.

And...FYI, we call jeeps "rigs' or maybe "trucks," but there is a legend in the jeepers' world that whenever someone calls a jeep a "car" a kitten dies....
 

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Thanks for the reply!

I see what your saying but that's just it!

I have replaced just about everything and there are no parts the move at all!

No oval holes, no play in anything, no warn bushes.... nothing! and even the parts that were replaced have been re checked as per your list and they are still as new!

And sorry about the kittens.... woops... ha ha ha..
 

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Discussion Starter · #94 ·
Thanks for the reply!

I see what your saying but that's just it!

I have replaced just about everything and there are no parts the move at all!

No oval holes, no play in anything, no warn bushes.... nothing! and even the parts that were replaced have been re checked as per your list and they are still as new!

And sorry about the kittens.... woops... ha ha ha..
There should be no clunk in your steering. You need to find the source of it.

DW does happen without something being loose, damaged, broken, cracked, etc. Too much toe-in and too much caster can also cause problems. You might back off your caster to 4.5 degrees.

Do your tire tread surfaces have feathered or cupped wear patterns?

Have you driven without your front driveshaft yet?
 

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wow, overwhelming but dam good info here thru-out this thread/post!! i am trying to break into the jeep world, been lookin all over originally for the 05 or 06 TJ unlimited(LJ), now lookin at the JK unlimited's. test drove a real nice 2010 Rubicon unlimited with 6in Rough Country lift runnin 37's, and I noticed it felt a little sloppy to me.. looked at what i found out to be the trackbar after reading thru here, and noticed the bushing peeling away where it mounts. hhhmmm really concerned with it now after reading this.. the rig was just driven back from cali with 18000 miles total, and the lift was installed by a the owner, who im pretty sure is inexperieced at lift kits! not a fan of the rough country lift for starters after reading about them either and kinda prefer a long arm lift. thats a whole other question i am searching for on here, long arm vs short arm lifts!! what to do what to do!
 

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Thanks for the checklist. I have really been struggeling with this issue for a very long time. It is not easy to figure out. I have tried so many things. Still no resolution. I am really frustrated and will use your checklist for another full inspection. I was told a JK with 53,000 miles should have had ball joints replace a while ago. Is that true?
 

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Thanks for the checklist. I have really been struggeling with this issue for a very long time. It is not easy to figure out. I have tried so many things. Still no resolution. I am really frustrated and will use your checklist for another full inspection. I was told a JK with 53,000 miles should have had ball joints replace a while ago. Is that true?
only if youve had bad DW for a while,im about to do my my 3rd set at 250k on my zj and yours should be stronger
 

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I have and the Teraflex Tech highly suggested it. At this point I really need this corrected. I can't keep driving like this. Not much fun and too dangerous!
 

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Discussion Starter · #99 ·
OCBob said:
Thanks for the checklist. I have really been struggeling with this issue for a very long time. It is not easy to figure out. I have tried so many things. Still no resolution. I am really frustrated and will use your checklist for another full inspection. I was told a JK with 53,000 miles should have had ball joints replace a while ago. Is that true?
The stock ball joints are not very high quality. Some people get 60,000 miles out of them other people get much less.

If you have had multiple bouts of death wobble it is quite likely that your lower ball joints are damaged.
 
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