[superheady]

Death wobble on a 2000 grand jeep is caused by a faulty abs circuit board..simply pull the fuse an relay shut it down before it kills you.
The front suspension design is also an issue on stock models.
The lower control arm bushings allow the castor to be thrown out once the abs pump sends high fluid pressure to the left front wheel draging not only the left front wheel at any speed.(thus causing the castor to go out of wack.once the upper ball joint is dragged in front of the lower your in trouble)
Once the above happens due to Diagonal Bar being mounted to the left frame rail to right lower diff causes a scissor affect thus causing the three things.

Axle is rotated causing castor issues (caster should always be + meaning upper ball joint behind the lower up to 10+ You do not want neg caster or zero)

Axle is dragged back on left front causing wheel base issues leading to total suspension Geometry failure.

Thus causing the left front wheel to bounce off the road violently (like an unbalanced wheel) an shake causing the automoblie to go out of control usually resulting in rollover an serious injury.

The factory will NEVER issue a recall due to Admission of guilt an thus wrongful death lawsuits.

With a TJ long arm lift kit the lower controls cant rotate however the castor is still Compromised.(although adjustable some what)
[best way to fix is shut down abs.(pull both the relay an fuse)next is too remove front diff put it on a jig table for a bridge port mill etc an ball mill the plug welds out of the centre pot to axle tubes an readjust the castor by rotating the tube in the centre section with proper caster meassuring tools an then re plug weld an install]

This is a very interesting post. I have a 99' WJ, and right after I added black steel wheels and 265 tires it got the wobbles. It's not getting the wobble anymore after upgrading track bar bolts and track bar, but I feel like I can feel it want to wobble. Will disco the ABS and see how that treats it. Thanks for the info.

 

[4WDlifeform]

Will disco the ABS and see how that treats it. Thanks for the info.

@superheady, your post seems sincere, I want to put something straight for you or anyone else reading that insane and obnoxious post... That comment by boblast is absolutely false, just a troll. Do not disconnect your ABS if you are trying to troubleshoot DW.

On the other hand, if you were jokingly going along, sorry if I ruined the fun :dunno:

 

[boblast]

Death wobble

, your post seems sincere, I want to put something straight for you or anyone else reading that insane and obnoxious post... That comment by boblast is absolutely false, just a troll. Do not disconnect your ABS if you are trying to troubleshoot DW.

On the other hand, if you were jokingly going along, sorry if I ruined the fun :dunno:[/quote]

Wrong Again Bud.
U can chose to heed the truth or ignore it..
Too which you seem to have..
Your loss.
Guess you wont be saving any lives any time soon huh?:surprise::frown2:

TROLL HUh
Yet again Wrong Bud

 

[Pine_Cat]

That comment by boblast is absolutely false, just a troll. Do not disconnect your ABS if you are trying to troubleshoot DW.

Are you sure? When my '98 had a bad ABS controller I could hear the solenoids firing away, confirmed by stored codes. His point may be valid if the solenoids are firing.

Some of the moderators have supported the unfortunate recent trend toward referring to some of the newbies as "trolls," and other tactics. Now this place sort of looks like a ghost town.

In my experience, the first person to say "troll" is usually describing himself. It's sort of like the way Hilary coined "fake news," because most of it was coming from her side.

 

[biffgnar]

Malfunctioning ABS can cause problems, although the vehicles I have experienced that on (admittedly not jeeps) it was pretty different than DW.

Perhaps worth noting that this thread is directed at TJ owners and I believe most TJs did not come with ABS. Some did (I had one) but I believe they were the minority.

 

[4WDlifeform]

I will apologize, perhaps I jumped to conclusion on our newest member. This forum is a wealth of excellent information, and I am always welcoming of new members. When it comes to DW, I am very serious about it. I have dealt with it and fought it for years. I am certainly not an expert, there is still much that I have to learn about the dynamics of the system. I have been successful in solving it, and I like to share my experience to this community.

However... I strongly believe what boblast posted does not abide by the principle of lending help or provide useful information. If it is true, please link us to articles of the claimed lawsuits and deaths. It is a very strong act for him/her to jump into this forum with a claim like that. I did not take that too well. Furthermore, suggesting removal of the ABS on a working vehicle is a removal of a safety feature of the vehicle. ABS is a completely separate standalone system that has nothing to do with suspension dampening. MAYBE I could get on board if DW is already occurring, MAYBE the ABS senses speed variance and THEN acts up. Or, a malfunctioning ABS system can start an oscillation to initiate DW, very much like how hitting a bump in the road will initiate DW. In that case, fixing the ABS system will not fix the fact your vehicle has death wobble. Though, I guess that is just my opinion on the matter, and I could certainly be wrong.

It is up to the readers and users of this forum to judge the information presented here and act on it how they choose. I chose poorly to react as I did. It just saddens me to see inconsistent and unproven information being spread. It's not a good look for us. If my comment hurts our reputation, then I truly apologize. I will continue researching the claim of related ABS and DW issues, maybe I have something to learn.

Cheers guys.

 

[Pine_Cat]

I believe most TJs did not come with ABS. Some did (I had one) but I believe they were the minority.

Agreed, I guess in here we're only talking about LJs and Rubis?

Just in case a non-posting reader is thinking about the possibility, it may not be possible to get a quick replacement for a bad ABS module. Many, including me, have experienced dealerships no longer able to program an ABS module because they don't have DRBIII anymore, and they can't bleed the ABS module, either (the dealership's great insight was, "once you get air in the system, you're screwed!").

 

[boblast]

Agreed, I guess in here we're only talking about LJs and Rubis?

Just in case a non-posting reader is thinking about the possibility, it may not be possible to get a quick replacement for a bad ABS module. Many, including me, have experienced dealerships no longer able to program an ABS module because they don't have DRBIII anymore, and they can't bleed the ABS module, either (the dealership's great insight was, "once you get air in the system, you're screwed!").

Thought i'd chime in...

First off thank you to all (Pine _ cat for standing up for someone he does not know)
Second to the mod's It's not an easy job ! I was /am / a gobal moderator for a certain sight to which i will not disclose..(althow such might come evident in future post's! Not to worry I am a wealth of information in legall land so to speak)
Being a mod can be hard we all have bad days.)
Third... i cant type worth a hoot so bare with me..i couldnt edit a post here the other day for lack of a button of function.
Forth I will share our story of near death due to abs pump issues.. just not now .very busy now that the weather is finely here...:wink2:
Fifth...Its a very scary story ..about two family trips one to Flordia One to the east coast(ya y'all will notice i type funny>}
Thousands of dollars later working in hotel parking lots well the family slept ..trying to be quite working through the nite aint easy...Then the family wondering why i was so stressed out an B-tchy as they say....

Sixth We'll leave ya with that for now...Other then to say IT WAS THE ABS PUMP ISSUES THAT NEAR KILLED US ALL>The factory could care less!!!!!
Its a wild experience some won"t believe..:grin2:

An lucky seven sorry for posting in the wrong area...I'm a newbie after all.lmfao

Eighth A pressure bleeder will force the air out of any system...Not sure if they even sell them any more however i've modified my old one to work on new masters ect.

 

[boblast]

Oh an wrong yet again...

fixing the ABS system will not fix the fact your vehicle has death wobble.

Reread my first post carefully for you have a total misunderstanding..
Not to be a -hole...
But you are 100% incorrect.

It just saddens me to see inconsistent and unproven information being spread. It's not a good look for us. If my comment hurts our reputation, then I truly apologize. I will continue researching the claim of related ABS and DW issues, maybe I have something to learn.

I am the kind of guy that will back up all facts of truth i speak or put on any forum..
So rest assured ...
The issues will be posted in time..
I simply do not want to write a book in one post. nor as stated do i have time.

 

[biffgnar]

Agreed, I guess in here we're only talking about LJs and Rubis?

I don't understand this comment. ABS was uncommon on regular TJs also.

 

[Pine_Cat]

The front suspension design is an issue on stock models.
The lower control arm bushings allow the castor to be thrown out once the abs pump sends high fluid pressure to the left front wheel draging not only the left front wheel at any speed.(thus causing the castor to go out of wack.once the upper ball joint is dragged in front of the lower your in trouble)
Once the above happens due to Diagonal Bar being mounted to the left frame rail to right lower diff causes a scissor affect thus causing the three things.

Axle is rotated causing castor issues (caster should always be + meaning upper ball joint behind the lower up to 10+ You do not want neg caster or zero)

Axle is dragged back on left front causing wheel base issues leading to total suspension Geometry failure.

Thus causing the left front wheel to bounce off the road violently (like an unbalanced wheel) an shake causing the automoblie to go out of control usually resulting in rollover an serious injury.

With a TJ long arm lift kit the lower controls cant rotate however the castor is still Compromised.(although adjustable some what)

Interesting questions in there about steering geometry

I don't understand this comment. ABS was uncommon on regular TJs also.

He raised some interesting concepts - if you don't understand then it's not helpful to rattle him

 

[biffgnar]

He raised some interesting concepts - if you don't understand then it's not helpful to rattle him

I've been patient, but for the topic in this thread . . . . no, he did not. Issues with ABS are very different than DW.

People have to understand what DW is. It is failure in the front end to keep the front axle properly located. Some sort of looseness (wear or loose connections) allows the front axle to precess. ABS issues alone will not do that. The axle is allowed to precess when something is loose or worn. As suggested above, ABS issues could trigger a pre-existing issue, but they can not be the cause of DW.

This is a tech forum. People will be challenged when they post something that is not (can not) be correct.

 

[Scratnuts13]

I have to agree with boblast. ABS is a totally different animal than DW. Sure, it may seem similar, but they are not. Both may cause shimmying. But one can and will kill you, the other will only give you a scare. ABS problems can lead to frozen calipers, and warped rotors, but won't make your tire fall off, fold under, or your vehicle to roll over. We are dealing with a wobble, but just can't figure it out. Have an 01 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4 with a 4Liter. Hypothesis: Hub Bearing. Anyone else got any ideas? Right front tire. Tires have been rotated. Balanced. All front end parts replaced. Alignment completed. Still, occasionally wobbles. Starts around 45-55 mph. Goes away around 65-70 mph. Then it's fine for a time. Answers??

 

[Pine_Cat]

I have to agree with boblast. ABS is a totally different animal than DW. Sure, it may seem similar, but they are not. Both may cause shimmying. But one can and will kill you, the other will only give you a scare. ABS problems can lead to frozen calipers, and warped rotors, but won't make your tire fall off, fold under, or your vehicle to roll over. We are dealing with a wobble, but just can't figure it out. Have an 01 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4 with a 4Liter. Hypothesis: Hub Bearing. Anyone else got any ideas? Right front tire. Tires have been rotated. Balanced. All front end parts replaced. Alignment completed. Still, occasionally wobbles. Starts around 45-55 mph. Goes away around 65-70 mph. Then it's fine for a time. Answers??

I also have to agree with boblast. He said "fixing the ABS system will not fix the fact your vehicle has death wobble."

I haven't experienced death wobble, but I hope others chime in to help.

 

[moemuledeer]

This week on MotorWeek News. Goss’Garage segment on Death Wobble.

 

[sdjp]

Funny I just got the update on this post. Yesterday I picked up my LJ from the Jeep dealership after much work/expense of swapping in JK Rubicon axles front and rear with a bunch of mods. Driving home on the highway I was so excited then it happened. DEATH WOBBLE! It was nuts for sure and I think if I didn’t already have two hands on the wheel I and others around me might not be here right now. It was terrifying. My interest previously was in knowing more about symptoms to troubleshoot elements of my TJ but now even though it’s the dealer’s problem I wanna know what went wrong. Side note: they said they had tested my LJ both on highway and on their offroad course before handing over the keys.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Funny I just got the update on this post. Yesterday I picked up my LJ from the Jeep dealership after much work/expense of swapping in JK Rubicon axles front and rear with a bunch of mods. Driving home on the highway I was so excited then it happened. DEATH WOBBLE! It was nuts for sure and I think if I didn't already have two hands on the wheel I and others around me might not be here right now. It was terrifying. My interest previously was in knowing more about symptoms to troubleshoot elements of my TJ but now even though it's the dealer's problem I wanna know what went wrong. Side note: they said they had tested my LJ both on highway and on their offroad course before handing over the keys.

Don't accept or let the dealer try to convince that a new steering stabilizer will cure that issue. A new steering stabilizer might temporarily suppress the symptoms and fool some into thinking it cured the problem but it's never the actual cure. The steering stabilizer has absolutely nothing to do with causing or curing Death Wobble.

 

[222Doc]

I been in a jeep since 1975. shimmy<>wobbles. you can get it in just about anything just takes more fubar to induce it in most. heck last summer in a 2x4 3/4 ton IFS, towing. in the middle of Nevada heading to Fordyce meet last year. front tire has steel belt separate no blow out. should have. tire was egg shaped at an angle and induced some of the best wobbles i have had in decades.

I know when i was young no one called it death wobble. Just wobbles. Now its death so why no pages of people here that died? They way people talk about this there must be a Memorial somewhere. At least for me i have been much closer to death than any wobble can induce. Like this dont even get close. must be the ice crystal effect.

They are right too. A steering stabilizer has never and will never fix wobble.

 

[bigfoot80]

been reading thread, and trying to find a cause of a vibration i get at 55-65mph

05 TJ sport 88k 3rd owner, 4.0, auto. MML, 2.5 OME lift/bilstein. 33x12.5x15 grabber at2s.

I have had a driveline vibration for a little while now. I have wondered if it was tire balancing or something else. today I swapped to the original alloy wheels and 29 inch tires and at 50mph i got severe death wobble. But at the same speed with the larger tires I just got vibration. I take it the extra mass/weight of the larger tires stops the DW. Any advice would be appreciated.

the front track bar/tie rod/control arms are all stock. I've gone wheeling approx 5 times with jeep in 2 years of ownership.

 

[sdjp]

I been in a jeep since 1975. shimmy<>wobbles. you can get it in just about anything just takes more fubar to induce it in most. heck last summer in a 2x4 3/4 ton IFS, towing. in the middle of Nevada heading to Fordyce meet last year. front tire has steel belt separate no blow out. should have. tire was egg shaped at an angle and induced some of the best wobbles i have had in decades.

I know when i was young no one called it death wobble. Just wobbles. Now its death so why no pages of people here that died? They way people talk about this there must be a Memorial somewhere. At least for me i have been much closer to death than any wobble can induce. Like this dont even get close. must be the ice crystal effect.

They are right too. A steering stabilizer has never and will never fix wobble.

You may not have ever experienced death wobble then. I believe the term came about to indicate the seriousness of the problem, as opposed to shimmies, vibrations, or other lesser wobbles.

I'm confident if I didn't have both hands on the wheel when it hit I would of lost control and rolled or collided with others near me on the highway. I've been in rollovers, lost wheels at speed, and a helicopter crash; my death wobble was a very significant event.

Half jokingly but if I guy got in an accident and died due to death wobble, how would we know and who would post this? It would be categorized as an auto accident and the publicly known "Jeeps are tipsy" legend would spread.

Thank you for the advice on the stabilizer.