'82 CJ Converting to Six Bolt Hubs

1210 Views 25 Replies 7 Participants Last post by cpwolf, 2 mo ago

orange150

Discussion Starter · 6 mo ago

I'm converting my five bolt hubs to six bolt from an old drum brake CJ-5 donor. I'm attempting to put my rotors on the old CJ-5 hubs and for the life of me cannot get them to pull together. Is this normal for this conversion? My google-fu isn't helping me much today.

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mblack

· #2 · 6 mo ago

The drum brake wheel hub won't work with the disk unless you get the surface machined to allow them to mate together. I think 1980 was the last year for 6 bolt locking hubs so you could get the wheel hub from one of those and it should work with your spindle.
I just took everything but the spindle off a 1980 front end and put it on a later model widetrack and it all bolted right up. Both of mine were already disc though.

orange150

Discussion Starter · #3 · 6 mo ago

Whomp Whomp. Probably cost just as much to machine the parts as it would to buy new hubs from quadratec.
I'll hang on to the donor Warn hubs (already gone through them and cleaned them up) and slap the hub assemblies back on the CJ-5 axle and throw it on marketplace.

mblack

· #4 · 6 mo ago

Yeah, I've always had used disc hubs laying around.
I've never had to do the machining so I have no idea what it would cost.

orange150

Discussion Starter · #5 · 3 mo ago

Alright. Got my new hubs in from Quadratec. I installed races, new bearings, pulled the old five bolt hardware off the Jeep and separated the discs and hubs, pressed the discs on the new six bolt hubs, put the new hub assembly on the axles, tightened down the spindle nuts, went to put on the Warn hubs... and they don't fit. The spindle nut is too big.

Is there a different spindle nut I'm supposed to have?? Is there anything else I should know before I pull things apart and put them back together for the third or fourth time?

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Fourtrail

· #6 · 3 mo ago

What model lockout hub?

orange150

Discussion Starter · #7 · 3 mo ago

This kind, Warn M(?)196:

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jeepdaddy2000

· #8 · 3 mo ago

Lock o matic's are an automatic hub and use a special round wheel bearing nut.

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It is designed to engage the friction shoes.

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These are good hubs but are getting fairly rare. If you don't have the right nuts, you will either have to find a set or switch to a standard set of premiums.

If you decide to keep them I suggest you do a full disassembly and inspection.

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jeepdaddy2000

· #9 · 3 mo ago

Addendum to the last post:
Early Warn hubs use a direct drive clutch ring. This can make locking them in difficult and unlocking them sometimes damn near impossible (you can see where someone used a set of pliers on the hub face). If you are running a front traction device or use your four wheel drive a lot, I recommend a newer set of spring loaded hubs. If your loc o matics are complete and in working order, you can probably sell them for the price of a newer set.

Fourtrail

· #10 · 3 mo ago

2 of these. Special Lock Nut Warn Lock O Matic Hubs Only

And 2 of these Special Lock Washer Warn Lock O Matic Hubs Only

orange150

Discussion Starter · #11 · 3 mo ago

Fourtrail said:
2 of these. Special Lock Nut Warn Lock O Matic Hubs Only

And 2 of these Special Lock Washer Warn Lock O Matic Hubs Only

Oh, and they have the special little lock washers that were all mangled up!

jeepdaddy2000 said:
Addendum to the last post:
Early Warn hubs use a direct drive clutch ring. This can make locking them in difficult and unlocking them sometimes damn near impossible (you can see where someone used a set of pliers on the hub face). If you are running a front traction device or use your four wheel drive a lot, I recommend a newer set of spring loaded hubs. If your loc o matics are complete and in working order, you can probably sell them for the price of a newer set.

The last few parts I need that @Fourtrail posted is $55.90 (or $73.90 with the special lock washers instead of standard split lock washers). Or Mile Marker hubs form Quadratec are $115. Or new Warn hubs are $285.59.
Is it really worth the extra money for new hubs?

jeepdaddy2000

· #12 · 3 mo ago

orange150 said:
Is it really worth the extra money for new hubs?

That is a question only you can answer. If you like the convenience of auto hubs for those special times then no.
If you rarely use your hubs, then no.
If you like the look of earlier hubs then no.

If you have a traction diff, yes.
Use your hubs frequently, yes.

The auto feature is for those rare times when you need a bit of extra traction and simply don't don't want to get out to lock them in. For any serious wheeling, you will want to lock in the hub manually. This is where the issues start. Windup will literally lock the clutch ring to the hub splines. The best procedure here is to try to unlock the t case prior to the hubs. If the t case will come out, then the hubs will disengage
unless,
you have a powrlok or other traction diff. These will keep tension between the two axles and will make disengaging the hub a misery.

Locking them can be a bear as well. If the splines aren't aligned, the hub won't engage. For you, it means reaching around and rotating the axle u joint slightly to find the sweet spot.

Understand, these issues don't happen every time and aren't confined to just the lock o matic's. All early Warn direct drive hubs suffer from these issues. This is why later models use springs to engage/disengage. This allows the spring to load the clutch ring. Then you get to drive and as the pressure is relieved, the spring moves the clutch ring.

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whodatschrome

· #13 · 3 mo ago

It’s probably cheaper to just go to the wrecking yard and grab hubs, rotors, spindles, and brake calipers off a F150 that has a D44.

orange150

Discussion Starter · #14 · 3 mo ago

I had no idea these locking hubs worked the way they do... dang. I think I'm going to pick up a set of 'normal' hubs. Man this cheap swap got expensive!

whodatschrome said:
It’s probably cheaper to just go to the wrecking yard and grab hubs, rotors, spindles, and brake calipers off a F150 that has a D44.

I didn't know that was an option. I would assume you need the stub shaft as well? Or would that work with the CJ shafts?

Fourtrail

· #15 · 3 mo ago

orange150 said:
I had no idea these locking hubs worked the way they do... dang. I think I'm going to pick up a set of 'normal' hubs. Man this cheap swap got expensive!

I didn't know that was an option. I would assume you need the stub shaft as well? Or would that work with the CJ shafts?

Sell your automatic hubs to @Mike B77 for $50 and you are half way to the Mile Markers.

Warn Automatic Hub on 1978 CJ5

The conversion to the Ford hubs, and internal lockout hubs is going to cost you more than the price of the Warn premiums by the time that you buy all the parts, new caliper mounts, new calipers, pads and everything else. Yes you will also need the ford stub shafts.

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orange150

Discussion Starter · #16 · 3 mo ago

Fourtrail said:
Sell your automatic hubs to @Mike B77 for $50 and you are half way to the Mile Markers.

Warn Automatic Hub on 1978 CJ5

The conversion to the Ford hubs, and internal lockout hubs is going to cost you more than the price of the Warn premiums by the time that you buy all the parts, new caliper mounts, new calipers, pads and everything else. Yes you will also need the ford stub shafts.

Thanks @Fourtrail ! Looks like I'll be picking up the Mile Markers.. I'd really like the Warns, but sheesh they're proud of them.

whodatschrome

· #17 · 3 mo ago

Fourtrail said:
Sell your automatic hubs to @Mike B77 for $50 and you are half way to the Mile Markers.

Warn Automatic Hub on 1978 CJ5

The conversion to the Ford hubs, and internal lockout hubs is going to cost you more than the price of the Warn premiums by the time that you buy all the parts, new caliper mounts, new calipers, pads and everything else. Yes you will also need the ford stub shafts.

I didn’t buy all new parts when i did the conversion on my CJ. I guess i lucked out that the junk yard axle that i robbed the parts off of had just about brand new rotors and pads...and there were Warn internal hubs already on the axle too. I haven’t priced out Warn hubs in the past 20 years, so i don’t know (and don’t want to know) what the current price is on them. I think i was buying them for $15 a side at the U-Pull-It wrecking yard. I assume those days are long gone?

whodatschrome

· #18 · 3 mo ago

orange150 said:
I had no idea these locking hubs worked the way they do... dang. I think I'm going to pick up a set of 'normal' hubs. Man this cheap swap got expensive!

I didn't know that was an option. I would assume you need the stub shaft as well? Or would that work with the CJ shafts?

The other bonus is that the Ford caliper piston is larger, and bigger brakes are always better. If you just stick with 32”~33” tires, then you don’t really need the extra braking power or the extra strength from the internal hubs. It’s also a downward spiral...you can also buy new 30 spline (instead of the stock 27) Ford outers, and new 30 spline Warn hubs...but where does it all end?

jeepdaddy2000

· #19 · 3 mo ago

Fourtrail said:
Sell your automatic hubs to @Mike B77 for $50 and you are half way to the Mile Markers.

Might try the binderplanet.net and earlycj5.net forums. Both have folks that adore the loc o matics. Might get a better price over there.

Early cj has a couple of great write ups on them as well.

cajun_jeeps

· #20 · 2 mo ago

Have these same lock o matics on my CJ, putting them back together now. Im assuming the torque specs on the spindle nuts are all the same? Anyone happen to know? The outermost bearing on mine is mangled as well if anyone knows where to source one of those.
Also, got a couple chewed-up wheel lugs - anyone knows if the hubs are the same as well? I assume so just better to consult with the experts haha.

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