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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-25-2017 11:22 AM
CrawlingForward You're almost as bad at updating as I am!

Let's see some images of the new addition, updates on the TJ, etc!!!!
11-08-2016 02:34 PM
djflyy
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawlingForward View Post
Once it starts V-twinning, if you shut it off and immediately restart does it start the cycle over or does it stay the same? (Heat related or ECM program)

Was the progress after replacing components immediate or gradual? (Gradual could signal them as red herrings. Immediate would be f'ing weird.)

My first guess would be that something hot hit cold water and warped or cracked. Only once it reaches temperature is it heating up enough to change how it runs.

Have you done the propane test yet? Take a torch, open the valve, but don't light it and put it next to various intake components while listening for a change in idle to check for leaks.

Also, have you tried pulling the spark plugs one at a time while listening for both changes and absolutely no change to see if you can identify issues with specific cylinders?

Sorry I've only got troubleshooting tips and no definite ideas, but you've eliminated enough other factors a little more troubleshooting should hopefully narrow it down.

Re: sooty plugs. Too much idle will result in sooty plugs, as they do not get hot enough for long enough to burn cleanly and burn off deposits. Those are the correct results.
I didn't have time to test and re-test the idle issue timing. I will do that when I return to Boston at the end of next week. But the sparks were still hot when I retried these things, so it definitely hadn't cooled down.

Replacing components was 1 at a time. I do enough troubleshooting at work with concert systems to know that it's dangerous to fix multiple things at once. The TPS definitely helped... the Distributor Pickup Coil definitely worked... or made positive differences.

I had the same thought re: the cold water affecting something that badly.

No propane test, and I haven't pulled the plugs one at a time. Good thoughts, things I will do.

Good to know about the sparks. So hopefully once it IS moving, that will help burn that off. Or should I spend the $15 and replace them once this is all sorted out?

Thanks Geoff.
11-07-2016 09:14 AM
CrawlingForward Re: sooty plugs. Too much idle will result in sooty plugs, as they do not get hot enough for long enough to burn cleanly and burn off deposits. Those are the correct results.
11-07-2016 09:01 AM
CrawlingForward Also, have you tried pulling the spark plugs one at a time while listening for both changes and absolutely no change to see if you can identify issues with specific cylinders?

Sorry I've only got troubleshooting tips and no definite ideas, but you've eliminated enough other factors a little more troubleshooting should hopefully narrow it down.
11-07-2016 08:49 AM
CrawlingForward Once it starts V-twinning, if you shut it off and immediately restart does it start the cycle over or does it stay the same? (Heat related or ECM program)

Was the progress after replacing components immediate or gradual? (Gradual could signal them as red herrings. Immediate would be f'ing weird.)

My first guess would be that something hot hit cold water and warped or cracked. Only once it reaches temperature is it heating up enough to change how it runs.

Have you done the propane test yet? Take a torch, open the valve, but don't light it and put it next to various intake components while listening for a change in idle to check for leaks.
11-07-2016 06:33 AM
djflyy Hey guys... lots of background info on this one. Prefaced with the fact that suspension/driveline/electrical I can do well, but the engine is one thing in this that I've never really touched.

This past July I was scouting a trail in New Hampshire with a friend and what was once a shallow water crossing on a trail I've been down before turned into about 4+ feet of water. I threw it in reverse and tried to get out but the MTR/Ks up front had dropped into a hole and couldn't get out of it. I shut the Jeep off immediately as water began pouring in through the floorboards/through the doors, and hopped up on the driver's seat. I radio'd back to my friend that I'd need his winch line, and climbed out onto my rear fenders (if ever there was a plus side to steel flat fenders, being able to stand on them is key). I climbed back out onto the spare tire carrier and used my feet to fish around underwater to get the shackle on my bumper. The front end was completely underwater, winch/Rigid bar, front stinger hoop, 35" Goodyears, etc. About 4 feet. Side Note: the air intake is the old Buick mod that places the intake above the battery, so it didn't get water inside




We pulled her backwards and dried off the distributor, and sure as **** she cranked right over (albeit miserably) and poured out white smoke for a few minutes. I scooped a fish out of the floor boards (water was up to the seat level) and drained the rest. It miraculously made the 90 minute drive home on the highway, not smoothly, but at 50mph in the right lane. Sounded like it was misfiring, but I was more happy that it made it home.

I've spent the last 4 months traveling with work and attempting little fixes when I have time. It's not my daily. I've replaced:

- Each and every fluid
- Spark plugs
- Distributor cap / rotor / wires
- Distributor Pickup Coil
- Ignition coil
- TPS

The Jeep starts strong. It has the whole time, but used to then begin a rough idle (envision the sound of a Harley Davidson) after about 30 seconds. The TPS made that a little better, but after an RPM rev into the 2500 range, it would hold there for a second after I let off the gas and then stall. The Ignition coil got this to about 60+ seconds before a rough idle. The starter coil got me into the 5 minute range (including VERY strong RPMs at the 3000 range, and immediate return to idle with no hangups). I honestly thought I had resolved the problem finally, but then after about 5 minutes it became a rough idle.

That's where I'm at now. 5 minutes of a strong start and idle (I also disconnected the batter after it started one time and it remained running well, the alternator is 2 years old) but then it randomly just decided to run roughly. I was sitting in it during that last test, and it really just became rough out of nowhere.

I'm out of ideas and my local mechanic who has known the Jeep for the decade I've owned it is swamped with work and can't take a look. I need help before I burn the thing to the ground.


Interesting last note, the spark plug photo below is the plugs that were brand new in September. The Jeep has only idled in a driveway since then, with 0 miles having been put on it. Am I missing something?


^^ video of idle so you can hear it





05-31-2016 02:53 PM
djflyy So in the year since I regeared the TJ, all has been well within the axles. That's huge... didn't fck it up.

After our spring club trip to MaBell, I was having grinding / binding noises, and leaks with my 1999's NP231 transfer case. I disassembled it and changed the RTV and seals afterwords, hoping to fix the leaks. I discovered a small hairline crack afterwords, and I messed around inside to try and see what was wrong inside the case itself, but it's been 6 years since I disassembled it last and I didn't see much wrong. In 2-HI it's fine, however in 4 WD it made awful noises and had no power to the wheels.... it was time to take it back apart and figure out what was wrong!

I picked up my new NP231 on Thursday of last week for $50. It's out of a 1989, which will come into play later. I stripped it down, removed what I didn't need, cleaned it out, and painted it. Not sure why, but just so it didn't look like cast aluminum anymore. On Saturday morning a North Shore Jeeps friend came by and gave me a hand removing the old NP231 from under the TJ. This was infinitely easier with 2 people, as we each could work on a side in removing it. Once the unit was out from under the Jeep, we cracked it open and got to work on removing parts while the output housing was painted and drying.


An little while later we did a test-fit of the housing to make sure all was well before RTV, and realized that all in fact was not well at all. As it turns out, the shift fork on 231s was standard from 1984 or so until 1989, at which point it change from 1991 to 2006.... the 1989 TC that I picked up had a longer shift fork (by about an inch) than my 1999 unit. The length was enough to not allow the SYE output housing to sit flush against the TC rear case half. Unfortunately this stopped us in our tracks, as my '99 shift fork was absolutely demolished, due to the disintegration of pads at some point in recent days.... likely the cause of my noise problems.


I called the dealership and was informed that Chrysler actually discontinued the shift fork. Helpful. NAPA didn't stock it. Awesome. So I called Crown where the chain came from, and talked to my friend Kevin. He had one in stock for $40, but was closing for the long weekend... thankfully he's a friend and left it in the mailbox for me, so I could make the hour drive to their Canton, MA warehouse and pick it up at my leisure... aka 11 PM that night, with no traffic.


Rob came back over on Monday and helped me throw the case back together. Again, much easier with two people. We did run into a problem trying to adjust the Novak line, and I think I'll need to order a new shifter cable and shift bracket as it seems wallowed out and will not shift properly. That aside, the Jeep is capable of driving now without noise or issue, in 4HI. New rear DS should be delivered by week's end, so 2HI can be a thing. Due to the shift cable not functioning properly, the shifter position is not where it should be, and 4-LO is beyond the shifting ability of the lever, which is why I'll need to adjust the cable. Our attempts to do so yielded no success.


~3 quarts of 10w-30 into the tranny and ~1.75 of ATF into the TC and the Jeep was good to drive around the neighborhood a few times. The front locker wasn't happy with tighter turns, but once the rear DS is back in all should be well.


Technically, hairline crack/new TC housing aside, this was a $120 project. $170 in total isn't bad at all.




New TC disassembled



Painted



Removing the bad NP231



TC out









This is the bad pin length





Old 4-lo shifter fork, torn up....



1989 vs 1999 fork length difference





Old fork on the left... notice the lack of teeth for the fork pads... all worn down



new chain is nice and tight



06-22-2015 10:35 PM
djflyy Jeep's done!!!



Is what I would like to say. But I cannot. Because It is not. After grinding out starter bearings for the carrier, Shaun and I began testing the shim configuration. As it came out of the differential, there were (4) 0.01" shims on the RGS (ring gear side) and (2) 0.01" on the Non-RGS. The method of working with this is to add the same amount to the opposite side you subtract it from. So if I removed 0.01" from the RGS, I have to add 0.01" to the Non-RGS. So we messed around with shims. It ended up taking 15 different set-ups before we got the best gear markings on the ring teeth, with a final number of RGS 0.045" and Non-RGS 0.00"... what a hoot it was to put the carrier in and remove it so many times. But, I do have to say that taking the time to do it so thoroughly was good both for the practice, and also to see how insanely small measurements, 0.005 inch shims, can make such a massive difference in the placement of the carrier in relation to the pinion. It's really quite amazing.

Grinding bearings


Painted them yellow for zero confusion


Keeping track of shim changes


Best marking we got... the keeper.



So after that we removed the carrier and took it over to the Gigantic Press. It took a minute of configuration to seat the 2 bearings on the carrier, utilizing The Tool a few times for assistance, but once it was on we set the carrier aside and went back to the pinion. The pre-load was worked on with the set-up outer pinion bearing, and upon figuring that we were right where we wanted to be, we used the yoke to press on the new outer bearing. It seated perfectly with the 150 ft.lbs torque setting, after which we removed the yoke and got the pinion seal seated in... what a breeze! Man. Seriously took 4 taps with a hard rubber mallet and that baby was ready for fluid.

It wasn't until we had put the hubs on that things got stupid, again. My 1/2" to 3/8" adaptor broke while we were torquing the spacer lug nuts, and of course I didn't have a 19mm or 3/4" half inch drive socket here. So then we moved to at least attaching the driveshaft at which point I noticed that the NEW YOKE I BOUGHT - for a '98 XJ *- came with u-bolt holes instead of the normal strap holes. So we were dead in the water for the 8th time on this re-gear since I didn't have the right part for the new yoke. $10 on Amazon and they'll be here later this week. Big thanks to Shaun though for coming down today for a few hours of wrenching. He's highlighted in a photobomb below.

It's almost done. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Just ain't getting there today.


Pressing bearings


Pre-loaded pinion


Yoke strap holes... and Shaun
06-16-2015 01:41 PM
2003X How are the 4.56s?
06-14-2015 08:41 PM
djflyy NEWS UPDATE:

MY JEEP HATES ME + FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DO THEIR OWN GEARS!

---

Now, that being said. Today was interesting.



Andrew (garage friend / Jeep guy) came and picked me up this morning. Upon arriving at his house we spread out my tools across the floor and went to work on Big Red. Today's mission was the HP30 and getting the TJ home to Reading from his place an hour or so away. It took no time at all to find out that the yoke of the D30 was not fitting on the splines of the new pinion gear. We were quite intrigued by this, and after smoothly putting it back on the original pinion gear, were quite frustrated. We took a yoke off of his not-yet-built HP30 and had the same result. Motive Gears are obviously closed because it's Sunday, but I was able to get an online chat with tech support at Summit Racing who was also intrigued by this discovery, saying that I might need a new yoke with newer/less worn down teeth.


It was at this point that I very quickly made the executive decision to button up the Jeep as is and get her the hell home. First order of business here was to get the carrier back in the pumpkin and torqued down. Having debated turning the axle shafts into stubs, I decided that the carrier might as well sit in the pumpkin for storage anyways, which would allow the axle shafts somewhere to sit. I took an old oil baffle from the HP and wrapped it in duct tape, shoving it into the outer bearing race at the top of the pinion itself and stuffing behind it with shop rags. Bright green duct tape is applying pressure to hold the combination in place, keeping diff fluid from making its way out where the pinion seal would be.


Reassembling the hubs and getting the wheels on, we put Big Red back under its own weight for the first time in 3 weeks. Torquing the lube locker/ SOLID diff cover to spec, we emptied 2 bottles of gear oil into it. This was frustrating at the cost of $12, seeing as the ring gear wouldn't generate any heat on its own, but the inner axle seals needed some kind of lubricant for the shafts to spin against.So there was that. Also took a fair bit of grease into the Alloy USA outer axle seals that we had installed last week. They had been sitting on my work bench for 3 years so I figured now was the time to install them. Last bit was removing the front driveshaft. Removing it was a bit of fun with the UCF engine & transfer case skid system installed, but we eventually got those PITA 4 bolts out and removed the shaft. Andrew is replacing his own u-joints this week and will be replacing my front DS u-joint at the same time while my press is at his shop.



Praying to the God of Jeeps, we opened the garage door and rolled her backwards... Big Red Was Dead. Jumpstarting it we VERY cautiously backed it down his driveway and went for a short and slow drive up the street. Getting the initial nerves out of my body, I took the backroads home, Andrew following me halfway just in case. Using all 5+R gears, I traveled at sustained speeds between 15-50 mph with a break in the middle of my drive. No issues whatsoever getting it home and parked in my driveway.


I'll call the right people tomorrow and find out if I need a new pinion gear (and subsequently ring gear) or whether this is a common thing and a new yoke will solve the issue. We shall see.


It's kind of neat that I (we) regeared the Jeep. Granted it's not done yet, but I was able to drive 10 feet without the rear end exploding. Still, f*ck this. Never again. If it hadn't been in someone else's garage, I'd have burned the thing down already.




Micro differences make huge deals


Reassembly



Stuffed pinion


Duct Taped



The problem yoke









Made it home
06-02-2015 02:52 PM
2003X I run 4.88s with 35s. No complaints here, great pick up on highway.
06-02-2015 10:12 AM
djflyy
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt4422 View Post
I'm running 4.56 and 35s. Good choice if you do a good bit if interstate driving. And I've never had a hill or climb I couldn't spin tires on while in 2nd gear offroad.
Glad to hear it. I think in the long run these gears will be better for me with the highway/trail/local use.
06-01-2015 09:01 PM
rt4422 I'm running 4.56 and 35s. Good choice if you do a good bit if interstate driving. And I've never had a hill or climb I couldn't spin tires on while in 2nd gear offroad.
06-01-2015 06:13 PM
djflyy Never heard back from 4-Low Parts about the famed Revolution Gears, so I just placed a few orders...

1. $314.00 - 4.56 gears for the HP30/8.8 from Summit Racing... went with Motive Gears
2. $40.00 - 37 tooth speedometer gear / new 12"x18" American Flag for the CB from Amazon
3. $7.45 - oil slinger for 8.8 & HP30 / oil baffles for each from RockAuto

The gears and slingers will be here by Friday for Saturday's install, which will give me the afternoon to have the bearings pressed on the pinion. Group decision was to leave the bearings on the carrier since they both look to be in great shape. So if we're looking at $450 for the master install kits and new gears, this won't be a bad deal for re-gearing to 4.56.

I'll post more pics up when the install is done.
05-31-2015 09:26 PM
djflyy
Quote:
Originally Posted by gspup View Post
FWIW, my last jeep had 4.56 and 35's and I really liked it except in the mtns. I'll be doing 4.88 this time around, though your reasoning makes sense and you'll probably be happy with 4.56.

Thanks for the input my friend. Your mountains are 10-12,000 feet taller than anything here so I don't think that'll be a huge problem for me even in the steepest mountain passes we have. Seems like general consensus between here and Jeep-Owner.com is that 4.56 is the way to go... that included a comment from a guy at ECGS which is reassuring.

Now to decide which gears... gotta make sure they're here by Friday.
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