|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|02-19-2020 10:56 AM|
I think if you have skill with basic hand tools, the above advice is very sound. Copper-Nickle tubing is superior to both steel and stainless as far as I am concerned, unless you are looking to polish the stainless for the looks. Copper-Nickle forms easily by hand. Some of the demonstrations show it being tied into a knot and not collapsing like other metal lines. It does not rust and it flares like no other brake line material I have ever tried. With some basic skill and a little time, Copper-Nickle will give you professional results and may cost less and fit better than reproduction lines.
If the Jeep is rusted out badly, you may want to look for better restoration candidate. Sometimes in time and money, it will cost you many times over to restore a rust bucket.
Good luck on your project.
Originally Posted by TimmyD7 View Post
|02-19-2020 10:48 AM|
I forgot about that trick. He is using pure copper tubing though. He is also using a tubing cutter that is much too big for 3/16 brake line. I use a littel cutter that is probably 2" square. I use a countersink to deburr the end of the tube.
Originally Posted by Dryseals View Post
|02-19-2020 09:40 AM|
|TimmyD7||Thank you all for the great advice! I do a lot of SS tubing and swagelok work at work, so am familiar with bending tube, and occasionally we use coiled tube so I have done a little straightening. To be honest though, I feel like the pre-bent is not that expensive for a perfectly bent line if I can install it without mangling it, or pulling body/t-case, etc. I am planning on using the OE steel not stainless, easier to work with, cheaper, and will last a lifetime now that the vehicle is in Colorado not Florida. I have a flaring tool that I like, but hope to only use it in a pinch. I am thinking worst case scenario with the pre-bent is that I cut it once if needed for install and put a union there. I would prefer to keep my run as clean as possible and with as few joints to leak at. I understand that the newer models have the proportioning valve up by the master and that design makes more sense than tucked in on the frame rail, but I think I will leave it where it is, again, I have some weird desire to keep it as clean and stock as possible even though the whole Jeep is rusted out... I do really appreciate all the suggestions and advice, and I may change course and make all my own lines still, but I think I have a plan until something else changes!|
|02-18-2020 04:11 PM|
Originally Posted by StoneTower View Post
Skip to about 3 minutes to see a good way to straighten tubing. We used to do this for 50 foot rolls.
|02-18-2020 12:35 PM|
This is the bracket I used. It can be had for less than $15.00.
Do a search for proportioning valve bracket and there are several styles.
Almost all those aftermarket booster/master kits use copies of Corvette master cylinders. Replacements (all made in China) can be had for around $30. I got the booster, master and the bracket for the booster for around $175.00. It seems to have gone up.
Here it is for $170.00.
I think eBay has them cheaper. I think they are all the same parts with different companies selling the.
I have 4 wheel disk brakes. The adjustable proportioning valve that I used has the CCP name on it. I have seen the exact same valve with SSBC and about 5 other brand names engraved into them. It is cheaper for a company to buy form China than make their own.
One more thing... You can unroll Copper-Nickle brake line from the roll against a flat board. If you do it carefully, it will be fairly straight. You can then roll and slight bends between two boards to "iron out" any kinks. By the time you do this and put rock guard on it, you will never know it is not perfectly straight.
|02-18-2020 11:23 AM|
|Deer-Slayer_5||I went with stainless pre-bent lines... they are great but I had to manipulate them a lot to fit correctly. If I were to do it all again I would have bought the copper nickle and taken the time to bend them myself, I probably would have saved some time honestly. Stainless is hard to bend once it is bent, and you cant flare it with a harbor freight flare tool if its too long|
|02-18-2020 11:08 AM|
I always liked the way the Jeep YJ just hung the combination valve right under the MC
Stock YJ is on the left
|02-18-2020 11:00 AM|
The Titan flaring tool is the way to go with 3/16" brake line.
Copper-Nickel is the way to go.
This is the brand I used:
I wrapped everything in stainless steel rock guard.
I used stainless steel fitting on the ends. If the line does not rust, you do not want the fittings or the rock guard to rust either.
I first used Copper-Nickel brake line on my Jeep about 6 years ago when I needed to reduce the lines. Because of the motor swap and the header being 1/32 of an inch from the proportioning valve that was on the frame, I spliced the line to the rear where the old proportioning valve was and moved the new adjustable proportioning valve to a bracket that is mounted to the master cylinder on the new master cylinder/booster combo. If you are not doing everything original (I have a 5.0 EFI mustang motor in mine) moving the proportioning valve makes everything much easier. I am after good design and function and not keeping everything original.
The Titan tool can do flares where the traditional type of flaring tool will not fit. It also makes excellent flares every time. (FYI...same tool...several different companies put their name on it. Look for the best price).
|02-18-2020 10:31 AM|
I've still buy pre-cut brake line lengths from the parts store and use unions to join the lines.
Makes it easier to snake shorter lines through the underbody and you don't need a flaring tool in most cases.
Take your old ones out and get an approximate length's you need. Then mix and match sizes to get the right length and bend and intall.
|02-18-2020 08:42 AM|
I have a pair of 1986 Jeep CJ rear Dana 44 axles. One is installed in my CJ-7 and really needed new brake lines. So, I bought a kit that included copper-nickel brake lines, an assortment of brake fittings (tube nuts), and stainless steel gravel guard off ebay. Since I had a spare axle on the ground, I could use it to make the brake lines on, which made it much easier.
I've made brake lines before using regular steel and stainless steel. I have a cheap clamp style flaring tool. I also have a tubing cutter, a reamer for deburring inside the tube after cutting it, several benders of different types, and a tube cutting tool. I can almost always get a good flare, screwing up perhaps 1 out of 10. But bending steel line to duplicate factory lines is a major pain in the butt and something I was never really happy with the results.
The copper-nickel is a whole separate story. Stuff is easy to bend by hand and duplicate factory bends and routing. I made two sets of lines, one for the axle in my Jeep and one for my spare axle, in the time it would normally take for me to make one line.
I will be getting one of those flaring tools BagusJeep mentioned. The bar and clamp type are kind of mickey mouse.
|02-17-2020 08:34 PM|
Cupro nickel is the way, soft and easy to work.
If you can get the old ones off reasonably intact to act as templates, you will find bending new ones quit easy.
on line you can buy a roll of 3/16" cupro nickel with a pack of fittings that will cover the entire vehicle for very little. I suggest you add to this a new proportioning valve (about $50), new hoses (about $30), new master ($30), and get some P clips to fasten it on. There is also some gravel protecting metal coil that goes around these pipes. You may find that your CJ has 1/4" line from the proportioning valve back. The same fittings will take either,a roll of 1/4" is cheap but this will need a different size flare.
Which brings me to the tools. Flaring tools come in several types, if you are staying SAE original they will all be for double flares. The $20 tool looks like a clamp and is cheap and nasty, it can do various sizes and bubble flares if you know how but is not the best.
I have one as it covers all sizes but it is a pain to use.
For 3/16" flares I prefer a tube cutter (don't use a hacksaw as it does not cut straight), a file to get the end really flat and deburred, and a much better die that you insert the tube in and tighten up. This other type of tool makes perfect easy double flares all day long in 3/16" tube.
If you do any 3/16 double flares, this is the right tool but is about $45.
Happy few hours to retube the brakes, you can get the whole system up to the calipers done in a day for less than $150.
|02-17-2020 06:47 PM|
Originally Posted by Dryseals View Post
From my experience with four sets of SS kits only a long section like front to rear will have a 180° “shipping bend” in it. You can easily straighten it out across your leg. Nothing else should be wadded up or bent so that it wouldn’t just go right on.
One thing I discovered is that the output on the new replacement proportioning valve is different than what was on my ‘5 so would have needed an adapter. Making your own lines means you can use whatever fittings you want or need. I did not want to cut my line, use a different nut and reflare the line.
|02-17-2020 06:05 PM|
Do a search for copper nickle brake lines, this is the way to go, its what I have now, not yet installed but I have ran tubing now for 45 years so I suspect no problems. With a decent set of benders and a flaring tool you can redo the entire brake system for a decent cost. They use the copper nickle now on a lot of the high dollar cars as it doesn't rust and bends as easy as copper. Flares easy too. And to make it look good you need to straighten it before you start work. Thats easy, clamp down one end and unroll what you need, plus a little extra. Then using some sort of pry system, stretch the tubing, it doesn't take much but it will pop to a straight rigid tube.
I picked mine up from Amazon but every one sells it. The pre-bent SS and regular stuff is OK, but they have to wad it up to fit in a box. Just check it out and if you need to learn how to bend tubing correctly I can teach you here in some very simple steps.
|02-17-2020 10:34 AM|
Redoing rear hard brake lines on CJ7 - Any advice?
So I shipped my wife's rusty old '85 CJ7 out from Florida where it had been sitting for 20 years and am trying to get it operable. Getting it to run again was relatively painless, but the brakes are giving me fits. So the master cylinder was bad, and in the process of replacing that I broke my (rear) hard line out of the master to the proportioning valve. I then was going to replace both the lines to the prop valve from master, but could not get the fittings off at the prop valve - all rusty, no room, vice grips slipped, nuts are rounded. So I fixed just the portion of the lines that needed fixing, only to find that my proportioning valve shuttle is stuck giving me only front brakes. In assessing the rear brake lines, everything is pretty rusty and I can't even get fluid back there to see if the lines are leaking, and I have to replace the prop valve regardless. So, I am looking at replacing all the rear hard lines as well as the lines from the master to the prop valve, and also replacing the prop valve. I was going to go with pre-bent lines from inline tube, keep it the way it was off of the lot. I have no intention of taking the body off of the frame, and it looks like I can pull the exhaust and maybe a rear shock and get the main rear line snaked into it's home. Has anyone done this, and are there recommendations for what I actually need to remove to prep for a smooth running of this line? The lines on the rear axle look pretty straight forward. This is a 6 cyl bone stock standard shift vehicle. I also think I can pull the exhaust in a single piece at the header and snake it out. Does that sound accurate? I do not have a lift, all this work will be with the jeep on jack stands in the garage. Any tips, tricks, advice or commiseration appreciated!
Thanks in advance,