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  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-17-2019 08:33 AM
coloradoman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prot View Post
My comment was not about price it was the ability to pick up a replacement locally instead of having to order due to using some oddball size. Not many local shops keep 35” pizza cutters in stock.
When do we ever need to go immediately to get tires, it takes only 5 minutes to get them online and a week to deliver. We have spare tires for a reason. But yes the store is more convenient.
05-16-2019 02:45 PM
Prot
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradoman View Post
I've had great luck buying tires online and getting them for much cheaper than any tire store.
My comment was not about price it was the ability to pick up a replacement locally instead of having to order due to using some oddball size. Not many local shops keep 35” pizza cutters in stock.
05-16-2019 08:40 AM
coloradoman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prot View Post
Although two tires with the same pressure, same load etc with one being wide and the other being narrow have the same size contact patch, the shape of the contact patch is different. The contact patch of the wide tire will be wider but not as long as the contact patch for the narrow tire.

Generally I like to use tires and other potentially wear/failure items that are easily replaceable from a local source compared to having to order some odd sized or rare /uncommon part. I find this is especially true of tires.

Those pizza cutters are not likely to be in stock at most places and would need to be ordered if you need a replacement.

That’s just my own personal preference and reasoning behind some of my choices but that doesn’t mean other opinions are not valid.
I've had great luck buying tires online and getting them for much cheaper than any tire store.
05-15-2019 09:49 PM
Prot Although two tires with the same pressure, same load etc with one being wide and the other being narrow have the same size contact patch, the shape of the contact patch is different. The contact patch of the wide tire will be wider but not as long as the contact patch for the narrow tire.

Generally I like to use tires and other potentially wear/failure items that are easily replaceable from a local source compared to having to order some odd sized or rare /uncommon part. I find this is especially true of tires.

Those pizza cutters are not likely to be in stock at most places and would need to be ordered if you need a replacement.

That’s just my own personal preference and reasoning behind some of my choices but that doesn’t mean other opinions are not valid.
05-15-2019 06:49 PM
Pine_Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prot View Post
Regarding criticism of the use of the word flotation in the article, go to just about any tire site and you will see references to flotation sizes.
Makes sense - many of the people who buy wide for the look would rather say they bought wide for the floatation (even though their wide tire has equal contact patch area as the skinny tire)

It's smart sales tactics to say whatever prospective customers want to hear, and emotion is much more likely to make the sale than logic

Analogy: people don't want to say they regear for the feel, so instead they claim it's more efficient
05-15-2019 08:35 AM
222Doc that was a hard flex? lol hardly. seriously......
05-15-2019 08:24 AM
coloradoman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prot View Post
Regarding criticism of the use of the word flotation in the article, go to just about any tire site and you will see references to flotation sizes.

FFS, this is Jeep Forum, not Grammar Forum where the conjugation of the verb be is a major topic.

To get back on topic, it is worth noting that on pavement, a narrower tire is less prone to hydroplaning than a wide one is.

Down here, in the deep black jack mud, a wide tire usually performs better, partly because of distributing weight over a larger surface and partly because of greater traction due the width.

I run 315/70-17 tires since 2007. I wouldn’t want to go any wider because as it is the twelve and a half inch width is more prone to hydroplaning than I would like.

A narrow 35” tire is somewhat rare as most are around twelve and a half inches.
Yeah agreed about the mud and sand, but in most situations skinny tires out perform the wider tires off and on road. I really don't even know why the selection of tires only comes with big width. The narrower tires are definitely more rare. There aren't even any "skinny" A/Ts available. They are only R/T or M/T.

Another thing, tires are the most important and easiest way to improve a vehicles performance. We have so many options for lifts and shocks but when it comes to tires, they are pretty much all the same.
05-14-2019 11:41 PM
Prot Regarding criticism of the use of the word flotation in the article, go to just about any tire site and you will see references to flotation sizes.

FFS, this is Jeep Forum, not Grammar Forum where the conjugation of the verb be is a major topic.

To get back on topic, it is worth noting that on pavement, a narrower tire is less prone to hydroplaning than a wide one is.

Down here, in the deep black jack mud, a wide tire usually performs better, partly because of distributing weight over a larger surface and partly because of greater traction due the width.

I run 315/70-17 tires since 2007. I wouldn’t want to go any wider because as it is the twelve and a half inch width is more prone to hydroplaning than I would like.

A narrow 35” tire is somewhat rare as most are around twelve and a half inches.
05-14-2019 06:20 PM
Pine_Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradoman View Post
Why don't they have more skinny A/T tires? I bet its because the wider tires just look better
Agreed, I would guess many are buying for the look. Some are just assuming wider is better, without reading much about it. Some have noticed that wider feels better.

Tire lift is great to have in the mudholes, and bonus if it was easily installed via skinny tires.
05-13-2019 07:28 PM
coloradoman Ok so it seems really skinny tires are better for the wrangler. Why don't they have more skinny A/T tires? Matter of fact I can't find 1 A/T tire that has a high aspect ratio. Only M/T or these new R/T have the bigger sidewalls without the extra width. Why is this? anyone have any ideas? I would love to see an A/T tire in the 10.5 x 35s. I bet its because the wider tires just look better, they look more rugged and beefy for the mall crawler look.

So many advantages of skinny tires:
Less modding for larger sizes
Better MPG, less rolling resistance, air resistance, lighter
Better off road capability in almost every situation
Less wear and tear from lighter tires (brakes, transmission, etc)
Less time to air down and air back up
05-13-2019 06:29 PM
Pine_Cat Thanks for chiming in! Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to criticize. I just figured the author of the article is not around, so I could get incisive here without offending anyone.

Just sayin' that Merriam-Webster is full of metaphors, and their "dictionary" is not the word of god. No offense, but they're just a bunch of guys who are not very demanding, and don't really care about the language, they're just trying to generate internet traffic. Saying that I have to agree with Merriam-Webster's fourth metaphor is like saying I have to agree with CNN. Are they the Fourth Estate or the Fifth Column?

Hey Merriam-Webster, riddle me this: how much did you have to pay Rube Goldberg to settle his defamation lawsuit against you all?

No offense, but the pitfall in over-reliance on weak metaphors can be sloppy thinking. Many over-estimate the "advantages" of wide tires because they imagine they're floating. I have nothing against common usage of short words that everyone understands, and I would have done the same, but that excellent article provided by the OP makes a lot of strong arguments in favor of skinny.
05-12-2019 06:52 PM
mukluk
Quote:
Flotation seems like a poorly chosen metaphor. The vehicle is heavy, so it can't float.
He's not making things up or using words incorrectly (Dictionary definition number 4).
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/floatation
05-12-2019 06:10 PM
Pine_Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradoman View Post
I find a good rule is to use as tall a tire as possible with the same section width as the widest tire available from the factory for that particular model. That way the tire will compress into the wheelwell designed for that width, without rubbing due to width.

On an irregular surface like granite and boulders, a tires contact patch will deform as a result of vertical pressure. The wider the tire, the less the rubber will deform to the surface irregularity given the same vertical pressure. The greater the deformation, the greater the tires resistance to shearing forces (spinning).

When climbing a ledge with a jagged surface, the narrower tire will wrap the protrusions with more contact due to the increased deformation depth. The wider tire will rest on the surface of the protrusions and will have a greater chance of spinning (shearing).

As the vertical load increases, so does the compression and flexing of the tires tread and rubber to the surface protrusion. A narrower tire generates greater vertical load on the rubber and the tread, increasing tread compression in conformance to the surface irregularity. A wider tire in contact with more surface conforms less, and will shear sooner than a narrow tire.

On a highly irregular surface, the higher vertical load force of the narrow tire becomes an advantage, increasing molecular bonding between the tires rubber and trail surface.

It is not the contact patch that creates better traction, but the tires ability to conform to the surface irregularities (deformation and mechanical keying).
Great, great article about deformation, but I'll go ahead and point out a couple anomalies I see anyway.

First off, he suggests wider is better for soft sand, and then he quotes an overlander guy who says the exact opposite:

Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradoman View Post
A tall, narrow tire is a better choice for all off-highway surface conditions with the exception of soft sand, snow and soft mud that's depth exceeds 110% of the vehicles minimum ground clearance.

As quoted from Sahara Overland, a Route and Planning Guide by Chris Scott (2004):
"...Note that it's the diameter or height of the tyres that makes the difference in sand, and not, as many imagine the width... For the desert, you want tyres with a high aspect ratio of around 80 because this represents a taller sidewall so corresponds to added ground clearance when firm, and a longer contact area when deflated"

20% of the increased contact comes from the width. 80% of the increased contact patch comes from the tread patch becoming longer. A tall, narrow tire allows for a very long contact patch when aired down. That, coupled with the minimal frontal resistance (area), negates much of the downside to narrow tires in flotation situations. The taller tire allows for a long contact patch and still maintains good ground clearance.

It is not the contact patch that creates better traction, but the tires ability to conform to the surface irregularities (deformation and mechanical keying).

A tall narrow tire has greater contact pressure, so when crossing a sensitive area like a muddy track, the tire will want to dig down until traction is found as opposed to floating on top. Make sure to air down and apply light, smooth throttle.
Flotation seems like a poorly chosen metaphor. The vehicle is heavy, so it can't float. The assumption seems to be that soft patches of mud are narrow enough to allow wide tires to straddle terra firma. Maybe, maybe not.

The light throttle recommendation sounds more closely matched to sand driving. Momentum is definitely a big help in mud (not sand), and I've gotten myself through mud by stepping on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradoman View Post
Why do race cars use wide tires? Lateral stability and cooling. Performance cars have wide tires for handling performance not acceleration. A wider tire exhibits less "roll-in" or deflection which affects tire camber and handling. Performance vehicles also drive at high speeds, which generate heat. A wider tire has a greater surface area to dissipate heat (generated from cornering and acceleration forces) at speed.

A narrower tire (and in turn a narrower overall vehicle track width) provides less stability on the road. A taller, narrow tire's sidewalls deflect more under severe turning forces, causing the inside of the tires contact patch (midline to the vehicle) to lift (roll in) from the road, increase the chance of a high shear force skid, or loss of control.
The race car comparison is not ideal because they have lower centers of gravity and are unlikely to flip over without some help. Since the narrower tire can skid more easily, that seems like the safer choice for a truck. The skinny tire will skid before it tips over. The wider tire may tip over because it's less likely to skid.
05-11-2019 11:01 AM
Ross I ran 34x10.5 supper swampers on my TJ, the other tires I have run have been 33s and 35 12.50s.

I really can't compare them performance wise because the tires were all different BUT given the option I would choose thinner tires all day long just because they throw up so much less crap in and on the Jeep, so so so much less.

I have 15 inch rims so BFG ATs are the only option for thinner tires but they are overpriced and under perform. Dick Cepek used to have thinner tires for 15s. You have allot more options.
05-11-2019 10:45 AM
LaddieHanus Friend of mine had a 2015 JKUR with 35's on it. Got in an accident last year and JK was totaled. Bought a new JLUR and used the 35's off the JK on the JL rims and no problems wheeling all last summer. No changes needed to the JL
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