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Thread: QTII Transfer Case Clicking, Stuck in 4Low, Service 4WD Consolidated Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-24-2021 01:01 PM
ColdCase Yeah thats something I didn't completely understand, but this MP built transfer case Jeep buys had been used by GM in their light trucks and Cadillacs for years before Jeep selected it... and their manuals pretty much say the same thing. I was thinking it may have had something to do with the braking mechanism or the calibration of the motor's motion sensors used in some motors that provides rotational direction not position.

By the way, gear magazine and some others have guides/articles on the GM case that can provide some insight into the Jeep version.
08-24-2021 09:02 AM
Piotrus Speaking about position sensor and TC Motor assembly in MP3023 mounted in WK2 - I have some concerns about information from Service Manual.

Service manual for 2011 WK2 says :
Quote:
New shift motor assemblies are shipped in the NEUTRAL position. If a new shift
motor assembly must be installed, it will be necessary to shift the transfer case
to the NEUTRAL position prior to motor installation.
IMO there is no such a thing as NEUTRAL position of the motor. It is simple, two way DC motor with separate circuit for electronic brake. There isn't any feedback from the DC motor to DTCM about its actual position, in WK2 this information is provided by TCase Sensor mentioned above.

When I was testing my motor with broken DTCM, it made so many turns in one direction that definately it will hit any rotation limiter if there will be such a thing inside.

Of course it is better to switch TCASE to NEUTRAL before unmounting/mounting the motor, but only purpose of this action is to park TCASE in the middle of the work range.
08-24-2021 05:20 AM
ColdCase Thanks, those voltages are consistent with service manual. The sensor consists of a linear analog position sensor that converts the motor output shaft position into a DC signal. The sensor may rotate a full 360 degrees. The DTCM must supply 5VDC (+/- 0.5v) to the sensor whenever the DTCM is not in sleep mode and monitors the shift motor position. The sensor position is monitored when the ignition is in the RUN position and for 10 seconds after the ignition is shifted to the OFF position. During normal vehicle operation, the DTCM monitors the mode sensor outputs at least every 2 milliseconds when the shift motor is stationary or active. The mode sensor position will be considered invalid by the DTCM if the voltage is greater than 4.75 V or if it is less than 0.25 V. The sensor is mechanically linked to the shaft of the cam which allows the transfer case to shift.

Earlier in the thread I think there are a couple tips on how to install and line the sensor up properly, and orientation that seems to work best. First Align slot in shift shaft in case with area marked with red. Then align arrow on the sensor shaft with alignment mark prior to installing the sensor. Position sensor on case. Turn CLOCKWISE UNTIL BOLT HOLES ALIGN and then torque attaching bolts.
08-24-2021 02:15 AM
Piotrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrus View Post
I put my two cents to the topic :


[EDIT NEEDED - voltages]
Ok, here are correct voltages from Tcase position sensor :

1) 4LO - 0,25-0,8 V
2) NEUTRAL - 1,10-1,25 V
3) 4WD AUTO - 2.00 - 4,75 V

If you need to manualy change Tcase positon to Neutral, just open Jscan (or similar software), check actual value of Tcase Position Sensor and turn shaft manually to achieve 1,10-1,25 V
08-23-2021 04:55 PM
Piotrus I put my two cents to the topic :

Clicking noise is result that DTCM is trying to rotate TC Motor to achieve desired voltage on Tcase position sensor but TC Motor is rotating opposite than desired direction. Probably it is some internal, electrical problem in DTCM module, it cannot revererse the polarity of the motor regardles of desired direction.

Why Tcase stuck in 4LO ?

It is simple, when you switch to 4LO, DTCM is rotating TC Motor to achieve 0,6V on position sensor, but when 4LO will be switched off, DTCM should rotate TC Motor backward to achieve around 1,9 V on N gear. But, due to mentioned internal faliure, the TC Motor is rotating wrong way and gear change is impossible.

In normal conditions, if gear change is impossible for any reason, DTCM is trying to rotate TC Motor backward and tries put desired position again. But in case of failure, it will rotate TC Motor in the same direction (to 4LO) and finally it will stucked in 4LO with no option to go back to AUTO.

If you will check actual state of TCASE with JSCAN or similar tool, you will see that in case of stucked there is info about "gear change in progress"

The easiest way to check if this is true is unmount TC Motor from the case and observe what happens when you try to change 4LO to AUTO. If TC Motor will rotate for a moment, stop and rotate again in the same direction you can be sure that motor is fine. Also - if motor will not rotate when engine/ignition is off it is also fine - there is solenoid inside which stop motor in desired position.

In the same time you can check if Tcase shaft is rotating without any problems and you can switch Tcase to NEUTRAL. Just rotate the shaft manually with some tool (be careful with the seal) and check TCase position Sensor voltage.

[EDIT NEEDED - voltages]


When you move Tcase to Neutral, mouvtnt the motor back, install new DTCM module and it should works from here. Even kiss point learn seems to be unnecessary in WK2, but if you have diagnostic tool like Foxwell NT530 you can run NON VIOLATILE MEMORY RESET to learn module what is correct kiss point of the clutch pack.


I am sorry for my english

Regards,

Piotr
07-28-2021 04:31 PM
Sickws6 Replace control module and sensor. So far all is good.


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07-22-2021 07:46 PM
Sickws6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
You are suppose to install the motor when the transfer case is in neutral position. The replacement motors are shipped in the neutral position. There are a couple long transfer case threads around. The gist of it is when you pull the motor and try spinning the fork drive gear by hand and there is little resistance and doesn't shift, you have a broken fork or its jammed. If you can spin it enough to get into the neutral position, them replacing the motor and module should work. Still clicking... replace the position sensor. There may be a special/homemade tool required to get deep enough into the case and spin the worm gear. You have to be careful about setting the position right.

I don't recall all the detail off hand, and don't trust my memory. If no one jumps in here by the time I get back next week, I'll try to take a look.

Which direction do you spin the gear to get case into neutral and how do you know?


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07-22-2021 06:20 AM
Sickws6
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_dmt View Post
Just a quick note to state the final resolution to my TC problem.

Symptoms were:

Clicking before startup
No Codes
No drivability issues, but

Got stuck in 4LO

Ordered Motor, Sensor and Module.

It was kind of a coin flip whether to tear into the TC, or just start with installing the module. And it turns out it was just the module. Most of my decision to plug and play was based on the lack of DTC's. My limited experience says that bad electrical components rarely tell on themselves.

New module, shifts easily between 4HI and 4Lo. No clicking, etc.

Thanks guys, for all the help!!

Good to hear! What process did you follow replacing the motor? is there a workshop tech process somewhere? I may be heading down this road it sounds like.
07-21-2021 09:11 PM
ColdCase Don't think ECU related. Clicking is bad control box, bad motor, bad position sensor or bad transfer case. Most shops replace the contol box, motor, and position sensor because it takes more time to isolate than its worth. If that doesn't fix it, they go to the rebuilt case, if that doesn't fix it, they start looking for pushed pins, corroded connectors, bad harnesses.

In your case, there could be a power problem that the control box is not happy with. You may want to monitor the voltage there before you start throwing parts at it.
07-21-2021 04:31 PM
Sickws6 I had to try 3 different ECU units while during tjay fiasco. Could this be ecu related? It is still under warranty from place I purchased from.


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07-21-2021 04:28 PM
Sickws6 When I turn key to ignition you can hear transfer case actuator clicking


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07-21-2021 04:27 PM
Sickws6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
That looks like a battery bus power problem that is making a number of modules unhappy. What is the condition of the battery? How do the ground connections look. Perhaps that liftgate short is bringing down the power?

New battery. Last year her alternator fried taking out the main ecu. Replaced the ecu and alternator and also had to isntall new pigtail to alternator. Never had any issues until now. Also rear end crash two years ago which never maid the loft gate correct.


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07-21-2021 04:09 PM
ColdCase That looks like a battery bus power problem that is making a number of modules unhappy. What is the condition of the battery? How do the ground connections look. Perhaps that liftgate short is bringing down the power?
07-21-2021 03:55 PM
Sickws6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Quite a few threads discussing clicking noises, one recent that turned out to be the control module. Codes will help, could be shift motor, position sensor, bad control module, jammed transfer case, or an electrical problem like corroded terminals, that affects both the air suspension and transfer case. How is your battery? Your everyday scanner will not likely pull the codes, but something like AlfaOBD, Jscan, or AppCar are relatively inexpensive software that should.

Here is what I got for codes



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07-19-2021 09:40 PM
ColdCase Quite a few threads discussing clicking noises, one recent that turned out to be the control module. Codes will help, could be shift motor, position sensor, bad control module, jammed transfer case, or an electrical problem like corroded terminals, that affects both the air suspension and transfer case. How is your battery? Your everyday scanner will not likely pull the codes, but something like AlfaOBD, Jscan, or AppCar are relatively inexpensive software that should.
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