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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-11-2016 09:10 AM
tvandmoviecars well, if we can meet on a price, and it tests drives out OK.. good chance this is the buggy I am going to get. It has everything I am looking for in a Jeep, except a winch, and other aftermarket goodies. It even already has a reese hitch, sunroof, and as a bonus, it's the limited, so leather seats. I am not looking to go through Sippy holes and such with it... but will do a LITTLE 2 tracking once or twice a year. (Now that I will have a Jeep finally... my parents property up in the north woods will probably sell in the spring before I can take it up there!<LOL>
12-23-2015 05:13 AM
eplumer400
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1222
You're a little late for the popcorn buddy lol.
12-22-2015 05:08 PM
1222
12-22-2015 02:38 PM
tvandmoviecars
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikkards View Post
I get what you are saying but you wouldn't think of the Wrangler as patriotic if you knew how much of it was built outside the US (heck the YJ was assembled up here in Canada) .
yes.... but it is one that screams "Americana", and harkens back to WWII. I do Cosplay and Charity stuff (And even did a indie movie) as Captain America... and I'd get might strange looks pulling up to an event in a Toyota!<LOL>
http://www.wranglerforum.com/attachm...7&d=1393562479
12-22-2015 02:00 PM
rikkards
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvandmoviecars View Post
I will no be buying a Toyota, Blazer, Honda, Suzuki, etc... I am only interested in pros and cons of the Wrangler VS Liberty... Those are my 2 front runner choices, not even interested in other Jeep models.

Based on what I read, basing it on my needs vs desires, when it comes to the time for purchase, the Liberty best fits my needs based on the majority of how I would be using it... although my testosterone keeps whispering Wrangler to me!<LOL>

So I do not care if a Toyota is more reliable then a Jeep or not... I will NOT buy a Toyota. Jeep just seems more "patriotic" then a Toyota, and as much as I tease a friend that drives a Toyota car... I would never hear the end of it, if I showed up at her house in a Toyota... plus I really don't like the looks of them, anyways.
I get what you are saying but you wouldn't think of the Wrangler as patriotic if you knew how much of it was built outside the US (heck the YJ was assembled up here in Canada) .
12-22-2015 12:48 PM
Manu_73
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvandmoviecars View Post
Based on what I read, basing it on my needs vs desires, when it comes to the time for purchase, the Liberty best fits my needs based on the majority of how I would be using it... although my testosterone keeps whispering Wrangler to me
You know if you buy a wrangler and keep it stock with a hard top. They really are fairly comfortable. When my YJ was stock it got about 17 mpg's and it was pretty comfortable. My grandpa bought it brand me and had driven it for years. I drove it 5 hours up to west Yellowstone a couple times and the only issue really was just space. Once I lifted it 4 inches and put 33's on it the ride was not that much worse. The gas mileage was just awful.
12-22-2015 12:26 PM
tvandmoviecars I will no be buying a Toyota, Blazer, Honda, Suzuki, etc... I am only interested in pros and cons of the Wrangler VS Liberty... Those are my 2 front runner choices, not even interested in other Jeep models.

Based on what I read, basing it on my needs vs desires, when it comes to the time for purchase, the Liberty best fits my needs based on the majority of how I would be using it... although my testosterone keeps whispering Wrangler to me!<LOL>

So I do not care if a Toyota is more reliable then a Jeep or not... I will NOT buy a Toyota. Jeep just seems more "patriotic" then a Toyota, and as much as I tease a friend that drives a Toyota car... I would never hear the end of it, if I showed up at her house in a Toyota... plus I really don't like the looks of them, anyways.
12-22-2015 09:53 AM
Kev M
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelbowtie View Post
Show me that factually a Jeep is more reliable than a Toyota instead of arguing with this guy and dumbing down the thread.
I have not made that claim. Why do you think I have? Seriously talk about dumbing down the thread.

I'm trying to gracefully end a tangential discussion (returning this thread to the OP) where I don't share your or Manu's reliability on certain data or at least weigh it as heavily when making my own decisions on what I'd like to enjoy.

If you can't understand why that is different from what you keep claiming I can't help you.
12-22-2015 09:47 AM
rebelbowtie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev M
You keep missing one major point. When judging something as "best" only the facts that MATTER TO THE PERSON JUDGING count. Not to mention the facts that you chose to believe may or may not be "facts". No matter, perspective is a wonderful thing, and it's funny how the same thing can look different from different perspectives.
Show me that factually a Jeep is more reliable than a Toyota instead of arguing with this guy and dumbing down the thread.
12-22-2015 09:32 AM
Kev M
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manu_73 View Post
Facts are numbers measurable and tangible.
You keep missing one major point. When judging something as "best" only the facts that MATTER TO THE PERSON JUDGING count. Not to mention the facts that you chose to believe may or may not be "facts". No matter, perspective is a wonderful thing, and it's funny how the same thing can look different from different perspectives.
12-22-2015 09:31 AM
eplumer400 Soooooooo OP,

What have you decided on? Wrangler? Liberty? Both? Neither?
12-22-2015 09:27 AM
Manu_73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev M View Post

You keep talking about "Facts" and absolutes as if a peer reviewed study has proven your point.

The truth of the matter is Consumer Reports or JD powers are specific samples that may or may not be representative of the whole depending on the sample size/methods etc.

And you continue to ignore the FACT that a lack of TSBs doesn't prove the positive of quality.

My stance is that no one manufacturer, nor even one model blanket holds the title to trouble-free products. Purchase of one is not a guarantee of such an experience.

Yes, brand reputation from noticed trends of product longevity will increase the odds of longer/trouble-free service but there are a ton of other factors including particulars of use, storage, maintenance, and not the least of which, a simple roll of the dice will determine any ONE vehicle's fate.

Not to mention any modern vehicle should be good for dramatically longer trouble-free miles than the average vehicle a few decades ago.

Since you have no idea of my pattern of usage (or even vehicle retention) you simply have no "facts" to tell me what is BETTER for me.

I will instead favor heavily my own desires, weighed with my own experiences knowing full well that if the vehicle of my choice winds up with higher than anticipated maintenance costs I can chose to pay them and continue to enjoy it or bail on it if I want to. Not a big deal.

McDonalds might be cheap and easy, and I COULD probably feed my family of 5 for a week on what we spent on one meal of Sushi and Chinese food last night, but I chose to enjoy what we wanted instead. I will likely continue to make such choices, you don't live forever and you can't take it with you.

Now the OP is playing a different game looking a used vehicles, the stats should mean more to him (though I don't see where he's considering a Toyota anyway). So we should probably put this tangential debate aside and let him continue his thread in peace.

I simply wanted to answer the question of WHY someone might dare to think and choose differently. I've done that.

Have a Merry Christmas and a great new year!
You are right I should let you keep saying the same thing not understanding that I too drive a Jeep and love it. Also I should let you keep thinking a Toyota is cheap and easy when it costs more initially just had less repairs in the long run. Facts are numbers measurable and tangible. Consumer reporters are based on thousands of different opinions if you want yours to count put it in a consumer report.
12-22-2015 09:17 AM
Kev M
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manu_73 View Post
Toyota actually discovered that issue with the accelerator and fixed it. All cars were recalled and protocols were taken to prevent future problems. Talk about Chrysler, Jeep, and Dodge (all the same company) look at the K car that was put out back in the 80's and 90's and was a hunk of garbage. 2011 Grand Cherokee had a recall on their fuel pump relays in a TIPM (total integrated power module) and it took 8 months to fix the issue. Every manufacturer has had something but some have had more than others. Numbers talk go read consumer reports, TSB's, and whatever else you want and Jeep is low on the list. Opinions are worthless. In my opinion I love my Jeep but facts prove that there are more reliable and better vehicles from Toyota. Toyota by measurable facts is better than Jeep. Your personal preference can be what it is but you cannot say your opinion out weighs facts and your Jeep is better. It simply is not. You like your Jeep more but that does not make it better.
You keep talking about "Facts" and absolutes as if a peer reviewed study has proven your point.

The truth of the matter is Consumer Reports or JD powers are specific samples that may or may not be representative of the whole depending on the sample size/methods etc.

And you continue to ignore the FACT that a lack of TSBs doesn't prove the positive of quality.

My stance is that no one manufacturer, nor even one model blanket holds the title to trouble-free products. Purchase of one is not a guarantee of such an experience.

Yes, brand reputation from noticed trends of product longevity will increase the odds of longer/trouble-free service but there are a ton of other factors including particulars of use, storage, maintenance, and not the least of which, a simple roll of the dice will determine any ONE vehicle's fate.

Not to mention any modern vehicle should be good for dramatically longer trouble-free miles than the average vehicle a few decades ago.

Since you have no idea of my pattern of usage (or even vehicle retention) you simply have no "facts" to tell me what is BETTER for me.

I will instead favor heavily my own desires, weighed with my own experiences knowing full well that if the vehicle of my choice winds up with higher than anticipated maintenance costs I can chose to pay them and continue to enjoy it or bail on it if I want to. Not a big deal.

McDonalds might be cheap and easy, and I COULD probably feed my family of 5 for a week on what we spent on one meal of Sushi and Chinese food last night, but I chose to enjoy what we wanted instead. I will likely continue to make such choices, you don't live forever and you can't take it with you.

Now the OP is playing a different game looking a used vehicles, the stats should mean more to him (though I don't see where he's considering a Toyota anyway). So we should probably put this tangential debate aside and let him continue his thread in peace.

I simply wanted to answer the question of WHY someone might dare to think and choose differently. I've done that.

Have a Merry Christmas and a great new year!
12-22-2015 08:24 AM
Ross When it comes to longevity it is hard to beat a Wrangler. This is a good read.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...le-423233.html
12-22-2015 07:49 AM
rebelbowtie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manu_73
When you are buying used anything could need repairs. You can find Wranglers that are 20 years old in better shape than a liberty that's 5 years old. It's all about being smart when you buy the vehicle from the person you buy it from to getting it inspected before you buy it if you don't have the ability to inspect it yourself.
This is very true and given the demographic that drives Liberty's you will likely find them in disrepair more than older Wrangler.
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