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TJ Death wobbles issue

2K views 22 replies 10 participants last post by  biffgnar 
#1 ·
Hey guys i have done lots of research and i am looking for some clarification before i pull the trigger on any parts.

I have installed an OME 2.5inch lift on my 2006 jeep tj rubicon. Worked fine for 2 months and then started getting death wobbles after a sway bar link broke. Replaced the links with quick disconnects. Problem continued. U joint in passenger side is shot and will be replaced. Steering stabilizer is weak and leaking due to the death wobbles.

I am waiting on replacing the two because a steering stabilizer is just a bandaid and will only mask until it breaks again. The U joint is just a vibration and is not causing the death wobble.

Attached is a picture of my front end. My diagnosis is that the tie rod is not parallel with the ground. I do not know how to go about this. People recommend currie, but it is 750 bucks. People recommend a zj v8 tie rod, but will the beefier tie rod also fix the angle it is sitting at? My mechanic suggests doing a drop pitman arm to fix this. But i suspect it will throw off my drag link and track bar angles and just give me bump steer.
Automotive tire Vehicle Motor vehicle Tire Bumper


How do i go about fixing this? any help is good help.

Thanks
Andrew
 
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#2 ·
Front angles are fine. Mechanic is an idiot. Replace the stabilizer if it's leaking and make sure the front toe is set in to 1/8". DW didn't cause the stabilizer to leak.
 
#5 ·
For many the zj steering upgrade is fine.
The currie is way stronger, but a similar design and geometry.
Check all the control arm bushings, watch front uppers closely.
Check the ball joints, wheel bearings, and tie rods.
dont do a drop pitman. Its a bad idea.
check the tires, and get them balanced. My death wobble was mostly a tire issue.
something or a few things are getting loose most likely.
 
#6 ·
At 2.5 inches of lift, stock steering in good condition is fine.

What exactly did you do with/do about the track bar when you installed the lift ? Is the front axle centered under the frame ?
 
#10 ·
At 2.5 inches of lift, stock steering in good condition is fine.

What exactly did you do with/do about the track bar when you installed the lift ? Is the front axle centered under the frame ?
So i just got the jeep back tonight after my mechanic throwing in a stabilizer that works and replacing a U joint.

The death wobbles is now worse!! i can barely get up to 80km/h before i hit a small bump in the road and have to come to a slow roll to get rid of the wobbles.

My mechanic wants to straighten out the tie rod and decrease the angle of the drag link and tie rod by putting a 2-4" drop pitman arm onto the jeep.
This seems logical, but after reading everyone saying not to i am very hesitant.

In order to show this to me he disconnected the drag link from the pitman arm. Could it maybe be we didnt tighten it up properly or in the right sequence of parts?

Please help! this is my daily driver!
Andrew
 
#8 ·
My death wobble was fixed by replacing the tires. When I bought it in 2011, it still had the original Goodyears. Horrible wobble right at 55mph. I bought it at CarMax, and promptly took it back during the grace period, and they replaced the steering stabilizer, which did nothing. Check the tire balance and see if something is off. If you've got a lot of mud stuck in the trade or inside the wheels, or if the edges of the tires are badly worn, that might be the cause.
 
#11 ·
The pitman arm is a solid piece of steel. How is it worn or causing movement?
It has no moving parts. A drop pitman arm will make it worse, by adding bump steer to the existing problem.

Have you, yourself, done a dry steering test?
This is how you will find loose parts to be replaced.
Or just replace everything like I did, lol

You need a new mechanic!

Have you had a tire re balance and rotation? Its a good place to start.
How old are your tires?
What rims and backspacing do u have?
 
#12 ·
Small amounts of movement in worn parts will cause wobble. Get someone to help you do the dry steering test to figure out where the play or worn parts are. My first experience with DW was worn sway bar links. Now I have a swaying feeling that is going to be corrected with an adjustable track bar, which I assume will be a bad DW if left unattended. You need to find the parts that are worn, and it may be more than one.
 
#14 ·
My first experience with DW was worn sway bar links.
That shouldn't cause DW (IMO). You can drive without either sway bar connected and not get DW, just a lot of leaning.:( Some older model 4 cylinder TJ's didn't even come with a rear sway bar.
 
#15 ·
TheBoogieman said:
That shouldn't cause DW (IMO). You can drive without either sway bar connected and not get DW, just a lot of leaning.:( Some older model 4 cylinder TJ's didn't even come with a rear sway bar.
Not disagreeing, cause I'm sure you know these wranglers pretty good, but.......

I don't have any more information than I experienced DW a few times before changing the sway bar links and it didn't happen again after. It is however possible that the track bar could have been a contributing factor and just not as noticeable as it is now, but the track bar isn't causing DW for me just a wandering kind of sway.
 
#18 ·
Hello Bizignano,
First off, it would help us if you filled out your Jeep's profile info so we know what's been done to your Jeep. With that said, I've been thru the death wobble battle three times with my LJ now and here is what my experiences have taught me:

- If the Jeep is your daily driver and death wobble has be on-going for more than a week expect to discover/correct/replace more than a single part. All DW needs is a single weak point to start it's work but once it starts throwing your Jeep all over the road, other parts start wearing down or loosening FAST. Especially if it's mostly OEM parts under your Jeep.

- It is never the steering stabilizer (for cause of or as a fix for DW)! Some even go as far as running without a stabilizer all the time. Also, from anecdotal evidence on this forum, it seems it is never the pitman arm either. As I understand it, the only need for a drop pitman is to reposition your drag-link so its angle runs parallel with your track bar to correct bump steer in high lift applications (I have a 4" lift and don't need a drop pitman). The pitman arm will never correct or cause DW directly. Now if you had a bump steer issue which was providing the required input for a DW cycle then changing out the pitman would be PART of the fix.

- Replace your balljoints. I did several "dry steering tests" and shook the sh*t out of my front rims/tires while up on a jack to "test" for looseness in the balljoints and they were rock solid. In a fit of desperation I replaced them anyway and discovered both lower balljoints were completely shot. The upper balljoints must have been holding the knuckles well enough in place to mask the lower balljoint failures when I shook the tires. If you replace these yourself, do your sanity a favor and buy this Jeep adapter for use with a balljoint press tool.

- Consider temporarily removing your front drive shaft. My stock shaft was extremely out of balance and was causing an intense vibration up front above 50mph. This is my first Jeep so I didn't realize this was abnormal until I removed it. This intense vibration wasn't doing the suspension components up front any service in their fight to prevent DW. Removing the shaft eliminated one variable in the equation.

- Check your upper and lower control arm bushing CLOSELY. My Jeep came from California and then lived 10 years in North Dakota. I can tell you the stock OEM rubber bushings in the control arms were WELL past their useful life when I got around to replacing them. By the sounds of it, you have a new lift kit and may have already replaced these bushings.

- I see that you just got your tires balanced but was it done on a "road force balancing" machine? It's about 4x the cost but I would say necessary when dealing with our large tires (other may disagree). These are $30,000 machines so call around, not every garage has them. If the service station you speak to doesn't immediately know whether their machine is a road force machine, it isn't. In my experience, stations that don't have this capability will play dumb or try to sell you on the regular balance service they can provide while downplaying what they can't do (the "Sell What's in Stock" motto). Don't be undersold here. In my latest round with DW, I had my tires road-force balanced for the first time ever and I'm putting all other troubleshooting on hold as my intense pre-DW has completely vanished (I'm not so naive as to believe it is gone however). As an aside, when I bought my Duratrac Wrangler tires the shop that installed them could NOT get them balanced on their regular tire balance machine. Instead, they threw CounterAct BBs into each tire and called it good. It was not good...

- Get a good torque wrench and hit every bolt related to your front suspension. The Factory Service Manual comes in handy but here are some numbers to get you started. They are referenced for my '05 LJ Rubicon with SavvyOffroad upgraded parts but should get you close:

Front Torque Specs
Front Lower C.A.s: 60ft-lbs
Front Upper C.A.s: 130ft-lbs
Front Track Bar Upper Bolt: 125ft-lbs
Front Track Bar Lower Bolt: 50ft-lbs
Front Sway Bar: 45ft-lbs
Front Shock Upper Bolts: 17ft-lbs
Front Shock Lower Bolts: 21ft-lbs
Drag-Link & Tie-Rod Castle Nuts: 55ft-lbs
Steering Stabilizer (Damper): 55ft-lbs
Pitman Arm: 185ft-lbs
Steering Gearbox Frame Mounts: 70ft-lbs
Front Driveshaft Diff Side: 14ft-lbs
Front Driveshaft T-Case Side: 20ft-lbs
Skid plate bolts: 55ft-lbs

So in summary, replace your ball joints, get your tires road-force balanced, inspect your control arm bushings, torque everything and do a "dry steering test" if you haven't already. If you are still at a loss and need professional help, don't let anyone work on your Jeep that can't explain to you on their own what "death wobble" or "bump steer" is. Also, if any part of their answer contains the words "steering stabilizer" or "drop pitman" I'd walk away. I've found this to be a good strategy when finding local garages to work on my Jeep.

Good luck!
 
#19 ·
Thank you for the thorough explanation!

I did a dry steering test. Everything seems to be visually tight. The front two tires were balanced by KalTire. I do not know if their machine is "road forced". Any way to tell from the job they did?

I am getting the same vibration at 55mph. I thought it was the U joint, but after it was replaced it is still there. If it is the front diff drive shaft, how do you rebalance the shaft?
 
#20 ·
From outward appearances, I don't think you could tell a road-force balanced tire from a regularly balanced tire. If you paid $40-$50 per tire for balancing however, that's a good sign it was a road-force machine.

From what I understand of drive shafts, some transmission shops can re-balance yours by spinning it on a machine and then tacking on weights as necessary. Going that route may cost just as much as ordering a brand new OEM driveshaft though. Also, I hear that many shops balance drive shafts at low rpm only so make sure that whoever is balancing your driveshaft is spinning it up into the 2500-3500rpm range to properly balance it at highway speeds (someone correct me if I'm wrong about this). In my case, I accidentally discovered the source of the vibration when I upgraded both driveshafts to Tom Woods parts. I had to change out the rear to a double cardan cv shaft so I did the front one too on a lark. I had already replaced its u-joints once and they were starting to "chirp" again. If you suspect that your front drive shaft is out of balance, remove it and take the Jeep out on a highway. With my new shafts in there isn't even a hint of a vibration coming up through the floor or in the pedals.
 
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