JeepForum.com - Reply to Topic
Thread: Preferred Antifreeze Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 
 
 
   

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-16-2021 03:38 PM
Cj7prm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob4703 View Post
When you open a thread asking for opinions you get opinions--many opinions. Before some one asks or states a preference I like cold beer. 39* or colder is preferred but up to 44* is acceptable.
Truth! I've been along for the ride. Also, 100% agree with your beer preference
06-16-2021 10:20 AM
mudbfun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyo View Post
I need Clarification here, I have dodge cummins an several jeeps and I have extra HOAT and an fully flushed jeep Like new radiator, heater core, all new hoses, new water pump, new stat ans about 20 minutes with a pressure washer in the engine whilst the stat and water pump was out so about as flushed as possible.

Now looking at everything, I have an aluminum radiator, cast Iron block, aluminum heater core, aluminum water pump and rubber hoses in BOTH, SO where will the HOAT cause corrosion in my jeep vs my cummins?

I don't see the difference. which part will corrode exactly?

Put it in and run it. I would be more concerned about contamination then corrosion, but with your power flush I wouldn't hesitate. Conventional anti-freeze will leave a residual layer on the surface, HOAT will attack that film and remove it resulting in better cooling properties. I switched from conventional to ELC in an old 6.2L Diesel after flushing it out. 150,000 miles and not a bit of trouble.
06-16-2021 07:38 AM
Wyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheels082 View Post
I use this is antifreeze all my vehicles. I have used it in my Jeeps, car, and motorcycle. Works great.
https://www.amsoil.com/p/passenger-c...tpc/?zo=226468
I actually Have an Amsoil membership and I use the best gear oils or grease in those hard to get to or don't ever want to replace or replace again items. I think it's worth it for those things. I also have an expensive Air compressor and use Amsoil in that.

I just simply won't buy pre-Dilute antifreeze of any stripe, I can buy distilled water for a buck a gallon.
06-16-2021 05:50 AM
bob4703 When you open a thread asking for opinions you get opinions--many opinions. Before some one asks or states a preference I like cold beer. 39* or colder is preferred but up to 44* is acceptable.
06-16-2021 04:47 AM
wheels082 I use this is antifreeze all my vehicles. I have used it in my Jeeps, car, and motorcycle. Works great.
https://www.amsoil.com/p/passenger-c...tpc/?zo=226468
06-15-2021 10:31 PM
ctorj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyo View Post
I need Clarification here, I have dodge cummins an several jeeps and I have extra HOAT and an fully flushed jeep Like new radiator, heater core, all new hoses, new water pump, new stat ans about 20 minutes with a pressure washer in the engine whilst the stat and water pump was out so about as flushed as possible.

Now looking at everything, I have an aluminum radiator, cast Iron block, aluminum heater core, aluminum water pump and rubber hoses in BOTH, SO where will the HOAT cause corrosion in my jeep vs my cummins?

I don't see the difference. which part will corrode exactly?
If you are using a HOAT that is rated for cummins you will be perfectly safe in your jeep. The HOAT is safe for cast iron/ aluminum and copper.

Most new anti freeze are safe and wont cause issues. Keep in mind I said most. You are responsible for figuring that out.
06-15-2021 08:37 PM
Wyo
Quote:
Originally Posted by badtux View Post
Use the cheap green stuff in an older CJ-7. The newer OAT coolants can cause corrosion in older engines that weren't designed for it. Just remember to change it every year for best results -- and do *NOT* put tap water into your radiator, it should always be distilled water, 50-50 distilled water and antifreeze unless you live in North Dakota or Alaska. Tap water will deposit minerals in your radiator and cause it to fail to cool at its highest capacity and our Jeeps have iffy cooling systems to begin with.
I need Clarification here, I have dodge cummins an several jeeps and I have extra HOAT and an fully flushed jeep Like new radiator, heater core, all new hoses, new water pump, new stat ans about 20 minutes with a pressure washer in the engine whilst the stat and water pump was out so about as flushed as possible.

Now looking at everything, I have an aluminum radiator, cast Iron block, aluminum heater core, aluminum water pump and rubber hoses in BOTH, SO where will the HOAT cause corrosion in my jeep vs my cummins?

I don't see the difference. which part will corrode exactly?
06-15-2021 06:57 PM
badtux Use the cheap green stuff in an older CJ-7. The newer OAT coolants can cause corrosion in older engines that weren't designed for it. Just remember to change it every year for best results -- and do *NOT* put tap water into your radiator, it should always be distilled water, 50-50 distilled water and antifreeze unless you live in North Dakota or Alaska. Tap water will deposit minerals in your radiator and cause it to fail to cool at its highest capacity and our Jeeps have iffy cooling systems to begin with.
06-15-2021 06:34 PM
mudbfun Sorry Jeepfeller I don't know. They probably dropped production. You could get an automotive top shop to make a good one.
06-15-2021 12:34 PM
JEEPFELLER mudbfun

While we are at this point.

A while back, I made a thread called "Warmth"

I begged for an answer

Where can I find a CJ Bib? (Not homemade)

Back then, 50% of them had one on the front

----JEEPFELLER
06-15-2021 02:08 AM
mudbfun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryseals View Post
Sorry but your premise is wrong.

No, it's not. You keep talking about a cooling system (Not the PID device, Not the proportional control system, Not the cylinder head heating apparatus, The cooling system!) as a "closed system" as if to suggest it is some kind of a thermal trap. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The primary function of a radiator is to displace heat generated from the internal combustion process. A radiator requires time to accomplish that! That is a simple fact. If the coolant is just rushed through the radiator when the engine is under a heavy load, the radiator will not have time to properly dissipate the heat.

One thing that seems to escape you is the fact that the systems ability to cool effectively is dependent on two things; 1- the heat generated by any given engine, which is directly proportional to the work load. And 2- the capacity of a given cooling system to effectively handle said work load. And those factors are rarely created equally. This is why I mentioned towing a trailer up a hill earlier. Because when an engine is under a considerable work load is when the cooling system is truly put to the test. Most of your hypothesis appear to be under the assumption of a commuting to work in a sedan with a feathered throttle type of situation. Not much cooling is ever required there.



Have I ever noticed a Diesel Bib, that is hilarious. I just got home from a 700 mile trip pulling 70,000 lbs in a class 8 truck. In a few hours I will do it again. Something I have been doing off and on (more on) since Ronald Reagan was in office. Diesel bibs are outdated technology, but not everybody understands that, so they still sell. They had a real purpose in the days of mechanical fuel injection pumps when fuel gelling was a real problem. But today's injection systems cycle enormous amounts of fuel heating the diesel fuel in the process. So gelling really isn't a thing anymore. If you have ever seen a Semi that has just been running in cold wet conditions you can sometimes see steam coming up from the wet fuel tanks. That is a result of the fuel cycling through a modern direct injection system. It is so much that it heats the entire tank. They (Bib's) were also loved by over the road drivers who heated their trucks in the winter while they were sleeping and the truck was idling. Those enormous cooling systems don't generate much heat at an idle. But most drivers dont do that anymore either.



Now here is a little something for you. We are both right! You are correct in that the first thing that a thermostat accomplishes is to help the engine to get up to operating temperature quickly. I concede that point and understand it. But to suggest that a thermostat serves no purpose on the radiator side is a fallacy.
06-14-2021 11:05 PM
ctorj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cj7prm View Post
What is the preferred antifreeze for a stock 1986 CJ7 with a 258. Stock radiator. The jeep is fairly new to me so I want to flush the system and put fresh antifreeze in. I plan to replace the T-stat while I'm at it.

Forgot to ask how many gallons I'll need?
Keep it simple. Just get green coolant if everything is empty then somewhere around 3 gallons. If you want it easier just get premixed 50/50 and pour it in. Yes it cost more but its simple and easier.

Wow this thread really went off on cooling systems. Comparing Light duty vehicles to 18 wheelers that have huge cooling capacities (14 gallons or more of coolant) for diesel engines working under full load.
06-14-2021 06:55 PM
Dryseals
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudbfun View Post
Yea right. Google PID, what a load of esoteric horse dung. Please explain to me yourself exactly how a thermostat does NOT block flow into and out of a radiator when it is closed???


If you think that a thermostat giving the radiator/fan time to do its job is insignificant, try removing a thermostat and then towing a trailer up a hill.
Sorry but your premise is wrong. Radiator at it best will drop the temperature appox 10 to 20 deg F. The systems are designed to cool and in most cases if there was not a thermostat the system would reach an equilibrium state below the operating temperature. What the thermostat does do is add a little restriction to the flow to keep the back pressure in the block forcing the cooling medium into obscure corners of the block. Its second mission is to help control the operating temperature. Most thermostats only have a 15 degree operating range from fully closed to fully open. So if you add a 160 deg T-stat then this is the temperature it begins to open, not the operating temperature. And when I said it is only a proportional device, its only moves based on the temperature and has no fixed set point to operate at, read about it here.

As I said before, its a closed system, what ever flow is going through the radiator is also going through the block. The main determination for extracting heat is the delta T , Temperature Differential and flow. And the higher the delta T the more heat will be removed, the faster and more turbulent the flow the more heat that will be removed.

To the layman, yes it would seem that the longer the coolant resided in the radiator the better it would cool, but then you forget, its a closed system. Now I say this not as some internet troll, but as some one who has been doing process controls in refineries and such for over 40 plus years.

So here's a little one for you, have you ever noticed the 18 wheelers in the winter time with a mask over the radiator? The cooling system is designed to endure hot temperatures, to make it work in cold weather they have to block airflow through the radiator...thermostat can't control that.

As some one else mentioned...can we have too much radiator, yes by all means, I even had the problem when I put a four core in a 64 truck with a 350. Worked fine in the Texas summer, but winter time you could see it cycling......
06-14-2021 02:41 PM
CSP Getting to the correct operating temp and maintaining it at that temperature aids in the efficiency of the vaporization of gasoline and keeping it in a vapor state between the carb and individual cylinders.

Thermostat temp is not just about cooling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryseals View Post
Its a closed system so what ever stay s in the radiator long also stays in the block longer.
Theoretically yes, but swap the radiator to one that has a higher capacity or better cooling characteristics and you can absolutely overcool an engine.

Just one example where reality doesn't always follow theory.

I have a tractor which had a radiator that was about 80% clogged. I never had any problems with overheating and it worked great in the winter keeping it at operating temperature when moving snow. I only learned of the clogging when it developed a leak. Once it was repaired and installed I could not get it to operating temp in the winter until airflow across the radiator was blocked. Turns out the thermostat was stuck open at the same time and I also didn't know that. I didn't put a new thermostat in when the radiator was repaired mainly because a replacement is about $55. It's an oddball that only the OEM makes, so the consumer gets bent over when the part goes bad.
06-14-2021 01:04 PM
bob4703
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudbfun View Post
Remember "Smog pumps"? Low compression "smog" heads (which is exactly what most 258 heads are). Some of the most boneheaded emission standards ever came from the early '70's.
I don't think our 74 came with a smog pump, but only PCV and EGR valve plus the fuel recirculation canister. All of which except for the PCV system--which didn't have a fresh air source except for the oil filler cap--was gone from ours when it arrived to live in our driveway. As it sits today it has a single pully on harmonic balancer and water pump. That is a good indication that there was never another belt driven device on the engine.

I did do some research and found that the 1974 TSM does not recommend a 195* thermostat for a 258. Section 2-18 specifies a 205* thermostat which must be open 0.003" within +3* of 205* and be fully open at 228*F. When I ran a thermostatically on electric fan I had it set to come on at 220*F so I never let it get to the recommended temperature. I'll try to remember this when I have the cooling system open and replace the the 195* thermostat with one rated at 205*.

https://oljeep.com/gw/74_tsm/2-Cooling.pdf if you need to see it for yourself.
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome