|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|03-07-2020 03:52 PM|
I don’t see a problem. You don’t want to shorten your narrow track FSJ Waggy axle. By the looks of the pic, yours is not a wide track FSJ axle. You would definitely need to shorten both front and rear if you did and I would not bother ever shortening a narrow track FSJ axle unless you wanted to return close to your stock Dana 30 width.
Cutting off the parts on the rear, welding up new perch mounts and welding up new leaf spring mounts for the front is not that tough...not expensive either.
If you can deal with the little extra overall width then it will make for a very stable setup. My front has 61” WMS width and I’m very happy with it.
|03-07-2020 02:21 PM|
Thanks for all the replies. So, I am thinking of just outboarding the front springs and staying full width now.
If I measured correctly the waggy 44 is 61” WMS to WMS. The Isuzu 12 bolt is 60.5” WMS to WMS so I think leaving them both full width and outboarding the front springs is the way to go if I am thinking about this correctly.
If I shorten the front the rear will be too wide I think. Am I thinking about this correctly?
Oh, and I found a very good deal on an AX15 with AA Bellhousing and Dana 300 adapter so picked that up.
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|02-27-2020 08:08 PM|
|BrutusBlue||Perfect! The measurement is as expected. You have a great setup. You made a very wise choice in Dutchman axles. They are made by Foote foundry. I use the same ones and always get good results. Looks good.|
|02-27-2020 06:46 PM|
Originally Posted by BrutusBlue View Post
Also took a couple shots to try and capture what the difference in wms-wms front to rear looked like. I think you can see the approximately 1.5" difference front to back when looking at how much tire sticks out from the flares.
|02-26-2020 04:42 PM|
I would say, with certainty, that both sides of Shardeins axle were cut and shortened. A wide track J10 with a 59” WMS, with a 27.5” spring perch width, would mean the short side and long side were both cut, using the parts he mentioned.
Schardein, if you measure, on the passenger side, from the center of the leaf spring pin hole to the outside face of the C (where the axle exits the tube) do you get a reading of about 7.625”?
The reason I ask is because the number should read 8.75” uncut. If you cut the passenger side C off flush and re-weld the C on you should lose about 1 1/8” to 1 1/4” worth of tube depending the method of cutting.
I suspect the long tube cut off amount was about 5.625” (edit) worth of tubing before the C on the long side was welded back on. Can you verify the 7.625” measurement? I can post a pic of what I mean if needed. I don’t mean to trouble you in asking but I have done several of these and I can just about get the exact amount needed on WMS numbers when using a wide track axle. It’s more a curiosity thing.
One good thing about cutting off both C’s on a wide track is that you get can set your pinion angle and castor custom to your needs versus leaving the short side un-cut and making castor and pinion angle dependent on the stock cast in angle. Stock FSJ 44’s are designed to point the diff at the TC. Turning both C’s allows for more flexibility with respect to driveline angle.
|02-26-2020 06:43 AM|
I was kinda surprised when I made the measurement. I've known it was wider than the rear, but I didn't think by that much. It's not really noticeable.
And you are correct, many trucks have a front axle that is slightly wider than the rear.
After making the measurement, I thought, I could use an XJ rear D44 (kind of rare), and have new shafts made with the CJ pattern, switch over my brakes and have a 60.5" rear wms-wms, which would be a closer match. Probably not worth the effort, but I have an XJ D44 on hand.
35s are good fit. They barely rub the rear of the fender well at full stuff, but that's a suspension/body thing. I run old school Poison Spyder front tube fenders with the 3" flare. They give a lot more room for the tire and cover about the same as a stock flare.
Early on, I did have an issue where the pass side tire would rub the frame at the front, when turning full left and stuffed. Driver side didn't do it. Since it wasn't bad, I left it for a number of years. Then it occurred to me to check the steering stops. Sure enough, the pass side was adjusted noticeably shorter than the driver side. It was a forehead slapping moment. Took all of an hour (with trail testing) to adjust both sides for max steering with no rubbing.
When I got this axle, I remember thinking a high pinion axle would be nice for best strength and ground clearance. But, my front driveshaft clearance is very tight to bell housing and exhaust on my LS swap. I have to space the pass side bump stop down an extra 1/2" compared to the driver side to ensure no contact. No way a high pinion axle would work in my application. At least, not without a lot more lift, or a SOA conversion, which I am not least bit interested in doing.
Pic is several years old.
|02-26-2020 05:32 AM|
So you are 59” WMS-WMS front & 56” rear. That extra couple inches up front probably helps stability a lot. Is the wider front width noticeable? I know many 4x4 rigs, FSJ’s included, came this way from the factory. I wonder if your J-10 front Dana-44 was cut on both sides, since they are around 66” WMS-WMS uncut.
I have a 78 Bronco Hi Pinion Dana-44 also, if I go with it I will have to re-tube it in order to get the passenger drop. If I am re-tubing it, I can add an extra inch or two to get to 59 or 60 WMS-WMS up front, to go with my 58” EB Ford 9” in the back.
I take it the 59” WMS-WMS up front works good with 35’s, and the wheels/tires don’t stick out too much?
Thanks for the good info you have provided. I hope the added discussion has helped CJ007.
|02-25-2020 08:10 PM|
|schardein||Got my front axle mostly assembled and re-installed today. It is 59" wms-wms.|
|02-22-2020 04:40 PM|
For a machined flat top knuckle...
|02-22-2020 04:33 PM|
FSJ Dana 44 narrow track cut to 27.5” CJ width, using Chevy small spindles, with a Ford hub, WMS is 57.25”
FSJ Dana 44 wide track, same setup is 61”
I have compared the hubs on FSJ vs Ford in the past and I can say for certain if you want a “slightly” stronger brake/hub and you don’t mind staying with the stock FSJ six bolt pattern then you could barely make the comparison that the FSJ is stronger. The FSJ has thicker walled brake rotors and the hub material is thicker. I suspect the overall width comparison will be nearly the same but I’m not for certain if the bearings will rest in the same location since it appears the offset is different. I suspect the total WMS between the two is a wash and may be different by 1/4” at most. The FSJ spindle has more material than the small spindles as well.
Chevy Dana 44 spring over...way bigger. Chevy 44 is 3.5” longer per side compared to a narrow track FSJ and 1.625” for the wide track...when shortened to CJ width. Chevy 44 starts off at 31.5” perch width.
Chevy 44 can be narrowed on both sides. Narrow track is best to leave full width or only cut on the long side. Wide track could be narrowed on both sides if you want the width of a narrow track or a more custom width. The narrow track does not have enough tube on the short side to make it worth cutting.
|02-20-2020 08:49 PM|
Originally Posted by Axhammer View Post
As for Dutchman, they were the only axle shaft provider I could find that listed the specs for the factory 86 CJ rear Dana 44 shafts on their website. This gave me a level of confidence that they'd made them before and got it right. Since I was already going with them, it was easy to provide them my front inners measurements and use them for the fronts also.
|02-20-2020 06:19 PM|
Originally Posted by BrutusBlue View Post
The more examples of “WMS to short side perch” dimension in addition to the WMS to WMS, for every Dana-44 axle assembly out there, will help. The more the better.
|02-20-2020 05:56 PM|
Originally Posted by schardein View Post
I’ve snapped axles in my drag car, but I have never experienced twisting like that. That tells me it twisted over a period of time, rather than an instant overload, that would snap it instantly. It makes sense, stressing the axle below failure mode, over years of use, resulting in twist before snapping. (Verifying that steel is malleable)
I’m planning on replacing all axle shafts front and rear on my Dana-44 and Ford 9”, before I do my SOA conversion. I will I’ll look into Dutchman. Thanks for the insight on your cut Dana-44.
Yes, you got a good deal!
|02-20-2020 11:04 AM|
|BrutusBlue||I can measure this weekend the exact wms width on a cut wide track FSJ and give you the comparison numbers between the wide track and the narrow track. I have non cut narrow tracks and wide tracks. Is wms the only number we want?|
|02-20-2020 07:45 AM|
Originally Posted by Axhammer View Post
I may have those measurements in my electronic files, I'll look later.
Story on how I got the axle- In 2006 I was searching local ads for Dana 44s and an ad popped up for a Dana 44 for the front of a CJ. I went and looked. It was the bare axle assembly (already cut and welded), including outer Cs, and inner axle shafts, with the pass outer C machined, drilled, and tapped for high steer. High steer arm was also included. Seller didn't do the work, said it came with a parts Jeep he bought. I took a measurement of the spring perch width, made sure the diff bearing caps were in place, and paid $300. I still think it was a great deal. Ended up not using high steer, bought everything from the knuckles out (used hubs, spindles, backing plates, outer axles & new bearings, rotors, calipers, u-joints, ball joints) and assembled it with 4.56 gears and a Detroit Locker.
Odd thing is the long side inner shaft looked like a stock, used piece. The short side inner was a brand new, maybe custom? piece.
When searching for replacement axle shaft assemblies, I couldn't find a stock application that fit the long side, even though I was sure there must be one, because it looked old/original.
I ended up buying new high strength inner and outer axles, custom built to my lengths from Dutchman motorsports. They are going in the new Ox locker.
I also got high strength replacement axles from Dutchman for my rear axle, a factory 1986 CJ Dana 44.
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