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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-22-2020 02:37 PM
Gypsy_Botanist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojo35 View Post
I believe that we have crossed that basic bridge.
Hey thanks for the advice. I am a novice when it comes to the mechanical world It looks like it might be the coil. I tested it like you said and watched some videos on how to test it. Judging from the videos mine isn't pulsing. Test light on the grounded(-) side of the coil should pulse and the (+) side should be steady. Mine was steady on both sides. which I think means it's bad because it requires the difference to generate the spark, like the spark is created when the test light goes dark? if the light never goes dark the spark is trapped?

I made videos...

Here is checking for spark from the coil. I unplugged the distributor cap from the ignition coil and wedged a screwdriver in the plug and checked it against a good ground, i tested the ground before hand, and it's my main ground, and I cleaned it.

Here is me using the test light on the positive and negative sides of the coil plugged in with little copper back probes i made from wire. Ignore the annoying of my voice...


Quote:
The random “backfire” you mentioned

Classic symptom of water in the fuel....if it’s been sittin a while with ethanol-laced fuel that is a possibility
I'm not too worried about that. She had been sitting for a month, but I ran through a tank, and I've got a water separator on my fuel filter. She sat over the summer but had an empty tank and I ran through 4 tanks before I had issue. If it was water how do I fix that?

Thanks for all the advice though!

P.S.
I checked under the distributor cap and the rotor looks clean and I didn't see anything that jumped out at me there. I can take pictures and post them as well.
02-17-2020 10:43 AM
fishadventure The random “backfire” you mentioned

Classic symptom of water in the fuel....if it’s been sittin a while with ethanol-laced fuel that is a possibility

But follow the other steps first. No spark won’t fire either water OR fuel.
02-16-2020 12:25 PM
Boojo35 You did have the end of the plug grounded when you checked for spark? Right? I am not trying to insult your intelligence but have to question how you do things based on this thread and your posts. If you missed the most simple of things it could sidetrack your diagnostics and results. Your lack of common terminology or acronym knowledge leads me to believe that your knowledge is basic but yet some of your other observations are very encouraging that we can all get on the same page and accurately diagnose this problem.

Remove the coil to distributor high tension wire at the distributor end and check to see of spark will jump at least a half inch if not close to an inch to ground. You can do this with a spark tester or by installing a Philips screwdriver in the end of the coil wire and holding the metal blade of the screwdriver at least a half an inch from a good ground surface. It will probably require a buddy. A reasonably insulated handle on the screwdriver is wanted and it will probably require a helper.

If have spark going to the distributor cap but not coming out to the plugs it can indicate a few things. Water or moisture in the cap, a burned through rotor, a distributor that does not turn, a carbon tracked cap, a messed up rotor to cap connection, lots of bad plug wires or at least where you tested. etc.

If you do not have spark from the coil wire you need to test for power to the coil, and a pulsing negative coil circuit, preferably with a test light.

It really does not sound like your ECM is dead in the way that most of them go dead. You were able to do things and bring your cluster back to life after the fact. You were able to flash codes after the fact. The ECM does control ignition timing and pulses in this engine but other basics have to be covered. The majority of ECM failures that are documented involve no Check engine light and not fuel pressure... They come down to bad capacitors and the ECM never really powers up for a few minutes.

I believe that we have crossed that basic bridge.
02-16-2020 09:42 AM
Gypsy_Botanist Yea, it's not starting. It's not getting spark. I checked the fuel pressure, it's good. I pulled a spark plug wire and checked for spark. I got none. The coil and plugs are new, maybe 2 k miles on them however I can check them with a meter. I checked the crank position sensor and it's good I can take a meter to the coil and check it out too but I'm like 80% sure it's not a mechanical problem. I was going to pull all the plugs today and check them. I did get a pretty loud backfire right before she died, so I hope everything in the engine is okay, although it was running while it was still in gear and sounded okay. I would like to check for compression if it's not super hard but it sounds good when i crank it. The computer I have can only check codes I cant read anything else with it sadly. I know she's not getting spark, the crank position sensor is good, shes getting fuel, and she cranks.
02-15-2020 06:33 AM
1project2many Just to confirm, you're still having trouble with the engine not starting?

It's hard to tell what the right next step might be without being there. A blown fuse under the dash and a drain on the battery suggest a problem with wiring or with another electrical component. Whether or not that's related I won't guess.

With the ecu able to "talk" again you could work on diagnosing the no-start. If the engine has compression, spark, and fuel at the correct time it should start. You could check for spark first. That's a biggie. No spark means moving to check for power at the coil, then check for the coil negative signal as the engine is cranked over.

If you have spark the next step might be to check for fuel. If you have starting fluid you could try spraying a little bit into the throttle body then cranking the engine. If it starts and stalls you should try to determine why fuel isn't getting into the cylnders. Are the injectors firing? Check power and ground circuits at the injectors for proper operation. If you have spark but starting fluid won't start the engine shut everything down and pull the plugs. Are they wet? Covered in black carbon? Do they smell like gasoline? Is the stuff you put into your tank not really gasoline? If the plugs are wet try cleaning or replacing them (do not clean plugs with a wire wheel) and try starting the engine again. If you have fuel and spark and the plugs are good I think diagnosis is going to be a little tougher. You may have a sensor giving wrong information to the ecu so you're getting bad spark timing or wrong fuel. Or you may have a mechanical problem.
02-14-2020 06:37 PM
Gypsy_Botanist I checked all the fuses and relays, visual inspection of the fuses if I really have to test them with a tester I will but... they all looked good. I checked fuel pressure it is good, fuel pump sounds strong (it should it's new). All the relays tested okay. I checked for spark, had none. Checked the crank sensor, thought it was bad and replaced it, it was not bad I was using my meter wrong, woops $40. I found one bad fuse under the dash and that one got the instrument cluster working again. When I have it throw codes it does, however the battery died and the computer reset its only giving 12,33,55 now, like a healthy jeep should. The ignition coil, cap and rotor and plugs and wires are all new, so I don't think it is that. I also checked over all the vacuum lines and they are all solid. When she sits the battery dies and its got a new battery so that also makes me think it could be the ECM as I've heard that is a symptom. Whether or not thats true I'm not sure. I plugged it up to a code machine and it is only giving the 33 code for AC fault, because the AC isnt there.
12-31-2019 10:06 AM
Siva283 The main 50 amp fuse in the PDC will cause this as well.

If your gauges stopped working your check engine light wont eithier. I am betting a bad fuse or wire somewhere. Especially since most of the gauges dont get thier signal from the computer
12-30-2019 05:04 PM
Awesome Mine does this occasionally. There's a fuse under the dash that controls the gauges (and other things). Those fuses get corroded and with the vibration of a running Jeep, they'll stop letting electrons flow.

Pull all your fuses out and clean off the corrosion. Or just replace them.
12-30-2019 04:11 PM
fishadventure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojo35 View Post
I would not condemn the brain when you stated that all the guages, etc. went dead. You should not trust the CEL when the rest of the cluster does not work.
True words.
But you need to verify power to the ecu first up. There’s another fuse panel (a PDC) under the hood that has stuff.

Im not convinced it’s your computer (although there’s a chance it might be) by the symptoms and this early in the diagnostic.

I’m not going to write a book right now 🙂
12-30-2019 03:38 PM
jkbrereton Vehicle Security System. Some Cherokees had them linked to the door lock or something. If you get a computer with that system, the engine will start and immediately shut down

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12-30-2019 02:30 PM
GTS225 CEL= Check Engine Light
Yes, "cluster" is a generic term for the instrument panel.....gauges, idiot lights, etc.

Roger
12-30-2019 02:14 PM
Gypsy_Botanist
Quote:
What is the year/make/model/engine you've got? Is it your wrangler that you're having the problem with?
Yea it's my wrangler, 1993 stock, its got the AMC 2.5L 4 cylinder.

Quote:
You should not trust the CEL when the rest of the cluster does not work
What exactly does this mean? I don't know what CEL stands for, and is cluster like all the instruments and gauges?

Quote:
As long as you get one without the VSS.
Another thing it could be is a bad crank position sensor
What does VSS mean?
I'll look at the crank case sensor. I had one go out last year and I think I remember how to check it with a meter. The plug is easy to get to, I'll add it to the list when I check the vacuum lines and relays.



12-30-2019 01:59 PM
Nibroc99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojo35 View Post
I would not condemn the brain when you stated that all the guages, etc. went dead. You should not trust the CEL when the rest of the cluster does not work.
This. Definitely check for codes using an OBD scanner and see what you can find.
What is the year/make/model/engine you've got? Is it your wrangler that you're having the problem with?
12-30-2019 01:33 PM
Boojo35 I would not condemn the brain when you stated that all the guages, etc. went dead. You should not trust the CEL when the rest of the cluster does not work.
12-30-2019 01:18 PM
jkbrereton As long as you get one without the VSS.

Another thing it could be is a bad crank position sensor

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