Mileage - what to look for buying used? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
rook68
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Mileage - what to look for buying used?

Hey all! Total Jeep newbie here!

I have read through some different threads, but I don't have a clear picture... I have found some nice older wranglers, 2d (07,08)... Most of these have much higher miles 100 to 150k miles... One that I really have my eyes on is a 07 Wrangler X, it has 149k miles... 6speed manual, v6... It looks very well maintained, but the mileage is where I cringe.

Couple of questions:
1) Is the mileage a concern? Without knowing if the guy beat the balls off the Wrangler....
2) Based on the upgrade list (see below), is it worth substantially more than KBB? They are currently asking 6k more than what KBB has for the unit. I am OK with paying a little more than KBB for some upgrades, but how much makes sense?

Thanks!!


Upgrades:
Brand new Teraflex 3.5 lift
Teraflex tire carrier
Falcon shocks
Traildash 2 programmer
Pedal commander
5-35x12.50r20 bfg ko2 less then 1k miles
5-20 xd wheels
Havoc front and rear bumper
Smittybuilt side steps
Smittybuilt H2O 10k synthetic winch
Weathertech floor mats

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post #2 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 08:45 AM
Kruzin
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"Upgrades" do not add anything to the value of any vehicle and in many cases lower the value. No dealership will give a nickel more for them if you were to trade it in.
Then there's the question as to WHY is the current owner selling it?
If they just put a bunch of $ into it doing that lift and tires, what's wrong with it? Something is making them sell it after dumping a bunch of money on it.
I would count on spending several thousand more just to make these "upgrades" right.

3.5" lift is overkill for 35s. With that much lift, there WILL be additional costs involved that aren't listed in the upgrades done so far.
On a 2-door, with that much lift, it will need both driveshafts replaced with longer ones. If they haven't done that, it will still drive, but the stock shafts WILL go bad in short order.
You also don't list if the axles have been re-geared. With 35s, that thing will be a complete dog that won't get out of it's own way. Both axles will need to be re-geared.
These 2 things alone are a couple grand, and I'm sure there would be other things needed.
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post #3 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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"Upgrades" do not add anything to the value of any vehicle and in many cases lower the value. No dealership will give a nickel more for them if you were to trade it in.
Then there's the question as to WHY is the current owner selling it?
If they just put a bunch of $ into it doing that lift and tires, what's wrong with it? Something is making them sell it after dumping a bunch of money on it.
I would count on spending several thousand more just to make these "upgrades" right.

3.5" lift is overkill for 35s. With that much lift, there WILL be additional costs involved that aren't listed in the upgrades done so far.
On a 2-door, with that much lift, it will need both driveshafts replaced with longer ones. If they haven't done that, it will still drive, but the stock shafts WILL go bad in short order.
You also don't list if the axles have been re-geared. With 35s, that thing will be a complete dog that won't get out of it's own way. Both axles will need to be re-geared.
These 2 things alone are a couple grand, and I'm sure there would be other things needed.
Agreed on the upgrades/ trade value...

And this reason "why" is that he has begun building a house, and needs funds.... This was a side project.

Good points on the lift, I am not too up to speed on the suspension things, so this is great information!

4:10 gears

Last edited by rook68; 05-27-2020 at 09:16 AM. Reason: reason
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post #4 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 10:17 AM
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I would doubt his reason for selling. He's not going to tell you "I got in too deep and didn't want to spend $3-4k more to make it right".

4.10 gears are stock for a Rubicon and may make it almost tolerable, since it's a manual. But 4.56 or 4.88 would be a better match to that size tire.

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post #5 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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I would doubt his reason for selling. He's not going to tell you "I got in too deep and didn't want to spend $3-4k more to make it right".

4.10 gears are stock for a Rubicon and may make it almost tolerable, since it's a manual. But 4.56 or 4.88 would be a better match to that size tire.
ack... Would you say it isn't worth looking at?

Also, thoughts on the mileage on the engine/trans, is it not much of an issue w/ Wranglers?
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post #6 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 10:47 AM
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So what is the asking price?!?! And what is your budget? And what is your planned use?

$6K over KBB tells us nothing, as we don't know all the variables you used in determine KBB.

$6K over low dealer trade in might be fair in some cases; $6K over full retail? Never.

And as for use, if it's a second vehicle you'll put 5K miles on a year, then perhaps the mileage isn't a concern, but if it's your DD @ 15K miles a year, yeah, I'd be a bit worried.

Such more to the question than just 'is the price right'. All the other things factor in.

As for add-ons, I tend to disagree w/ the 'they add NO value' school of thought.

They absolutley do not add full value( the retail price+ install), but I actually look for vehicles which have been modded, as long as it's what I want. That way, I get the cost of the mods at about 25%-30% of the real cost.

A good example of this is wheels... if you buy an aftermarket set of wheels for $1K, they don't add $1K to the value of the jeep, because the jeep already had wheels, and they had value. It's not as simple as deducting the value of the old wheels either, you have to look at it as "what is the value of the jeep with NO wheels?" (much less than with wheels, obviously)

Now then, if I happen to like the wheels added, I might be willing to pay, for $200-$500 more than for the exact same vehicle without those wheels, because it will save me $500-$700 on having to buy new wheels myself

This of course all depends on the new buyer and their taste, but a tactfully done, modified vehicle can absolutely have more value than a stock one, just not the full value of ALL the cost of the mods+installation on top of the base price.

Hoss

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post #7 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JoonHoss View Post
So what is the asking price?!?! And what is your budget? And what is your planned use?

$6K over KBB tells us nothing, as we don't know all the variables you used in determine KBB.

$6K over low dealer trade in might be fair in some cases; $6K over full retail? Never.

And as for use, if it's a second vehicle you'll put 5K miles on a year, then perhaps the mileage isn't a concern, but if it's your DD @ 15K miles a year, yeah, I'd be a bit worried.

Such more to the question than just 'is the price right'. All the other things factor in.

As for add-ons, I tend to disagree w/ the 'they add NO value' school of thought.

They absolutley do not add full value( the retail price+ install), but I actually look for vehicles which have been modded, as long as it's what I want. That way, I get the cost of the mods at about 25%-30% of the real cost.

A good example of this is wheels... if you buy an aftermarket set of wheels for $1K, they don't add $1K to the value of the jeep, because the jeep already had wheels, and they had value. It's not as simple as deducting the value of the old wheels either, you have to look at it as "what is the value of the jeep with NO wheels?" (much less than with wheels, obviously)

Now then, if I happen to like the wheels added, I might be willing to pay, for $200-$500 more than for the exact same vehicle without those wheels, because it will save me $500-$700 on having to buy new wheels myself

This of course all depends on the new buyer and their taste, but a tactfully done, modified vehicle can absolutely have more value than a stock one, just not the full value of ALL the cost of the mods+installation on top of the base price.

Hoss
ah! yes, totally missed talking about this.

so, his ask is $14,500. 2D 07 Wrangler. 149k miles...

My budget? I want to be < 15k... However, for a great "deal" I could go above, it just really depends...

My use will be towing behind my class a, maybe some beach runs, and some mountain trails.. I would guess 5-6K a year...
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post #8 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 12:43 PM
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Good advice given by the guys I'd definitely try to find one not lifted and if you can wait another year you may be able to get a 2012+ one that had the much better engine transmission combo. Houston CL had a couple that fit that bill in the $17-18k range last time I looked most were over $20k still but I think next year or later this year when 2021 come out you may see the JK come down a little more.
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post #9 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Good advice given by the guys I'd definitely try to find one not lifted and if you can wait another year you may be able to get a 2012+ one that had the much better engine transmission combo. Houston CL had a couple that fit that bill in the $17-18k range last time I looked most were over $20k still but I think next year or later this year when 2021 come out you may see the JK come down a little more.
100% Great pointers...

There is a dealership here that has a 2012, that I might be able to get for 15k... Just not as "clean" interior as the 07. Could be fixed... It also has much less miles (89k)
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post #10 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 02:22 PM
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One of the cool things about a jeep is there is an aftermarket part for just about everything. Dirty seats get some new ones or get some nice covers. Carpets nasty, get a new one or take it out completely roll in some bed liner. Overall I agree you want something clean that usually equates to a vehicle that's been cared for but I could probably overlook some interior things if the body and mechanicals are in good shape. To me the only reason to look for a JK before 2012 is you're planning and engine swap anyway lol.
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post #11 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LuthWJ77 View Post
One of the cool things about a jeep is there is an aftermarket part for just about everything. Dirty seats get some new ones or get some nice covers. Carpets nasty, get a new one or take it out completely roll in some bed liner. Overall I agree you want something clean that usually equates to a vehicle that's been cared for but I could probably overlook some interior things if the body and mechanicals are in good shape. To me the only reason to look for a JK before 2012 is you're planning and engine swap anyway lol.
Noted! No plans to do engine swaps, lol!
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post #12 of 32 Old 05-27-2020, 05:12 PM
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At that price, it'd have to be in very good condition, and exactly what you wanted.

There aren't any $8K JK's around here , and $12-$15K seems bottom dollar for the the '07-'10 models. They go up a couple grand every model year newer.

For comparison (I know you don't live here, but) I found this today

https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/c...128503705.html

They are asking $10K, and is has way less miles, and is two years newer. Now then, if you liked this jeep, but wanted to add all the stuff the jeep you are looking at has, you'd easily be in another $6-$8K.

If you want a '12 or newer, you'll be lucky to find anything decent under $15K to start, and the add ones would be the same.

I noticed you looked a a manual trans. ? Everybody talks about how great the '12-up are because of the motor, but reality, most of the gain is from a better built/ geared automatic trans. There's noting wrong w/ the pentastar engines, but there is really nothing wrong with the 3.8 either, but the 4 speed behind them doesn't do them any favors.

Hoss

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post #13 of 32 Old 05-28-2020, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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At that price, it'd have to be in very good condition, and exactly what you wanted.

There aren't any $8K JK's around here , and $12-$15K seems bottom dollar for the the '07-'10 models. They go up a couple grand every model year newer.

For comparison (I know you don't live here, but) I found this today

https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/c...128503705.html

They are asking $10K, and is has way less miles, and is two years newer. Now then, if you liked this jeep, but wanted to add all the stuff the jeep you are looking at has, you'd easily be in another $6-$8K.

If you want a '12 or newer, you'll be lucky to find anything decent under $15K to start, and the add ones would be the same.

I noticed you looked a a manual trans. ? Everybody talks about how great the '12-up are because of the motor, but reality, most of the gain is from a better built/ geared automatic trans. There's noting wrong w/ the pentastar engines, but there is really nothing wrong with the 3.8 either, but the 4 speed behind them doesn't do them any favors.

Hoss
yeah, agreed...

The seller did mention they did not update the driveshaft, he said "it is in spec", which I wouldn't even know how to determine. Reading online it seems anything above a 2.5" needs to consider changing it out. However, maybe since he doesn't take it off road it doesn't matter? (no extreme driving angles).

Good to know about the motors... I did read the 12-13s had some weird cylinder 3 problem, should be covered until 150k miles though?

Thanks for all the info thus far!
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post #14 of 32 Old 05-28-2020, 12:48 PM
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yeah, agreed...

The seller did mention they did not update the driveshaft, he said "it is in spec", which I wouldn't even know how to determine.

No, It's not. If he say's it is, I would run away.

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post #15 of 32 Old 05-28-2020, 08:32 PM
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I don't get the concern with the driveshaft? Assuming they're talking about how the front one can hit the exhaust with lifts above 2.5" they make a cheap fix just adding a spacer to move the exhaust a little to make it clear or you can replace the front shaft altogether with one that has smaller diameter to clear. Either way at 2.5" it should be a non-issue on a JK right? Rook, people doing shoddy mods to these Jeeps is really common one of the main reasons overall I think the consensus to find one in stock form so you don't have to worry about potentially fixing someone else's shortcut down the road.
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