Jerking\Lurching\Bucking When Going Uphill, Feels Like Its Going To Stall - JeepForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 03-26-2018, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
FireGuy1996
Registered User
 
FireGuy1996's Avatar
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Conway
Posts: 1,022
Garage
Jerking\Lurching\Bucking When Going Uphill, Feels Like Its Going To Stall

This started happening about a month ago, and progressively getting more and more common.

On most steep hills my JK has this lurching\bucking sensation as make the hill climb. It hasn't stalled yet, but it feels like it is going to which I'm aware is a fairly common issue with the 2013 Wrangler is that they stalled while driving that is mostly caused by the crankshaft position sensor.

Always happens if I maintain fairly low RPM's and steady gas pedal application. If I apply more gas and it drops a gear the sensation goes away but them I'm practically flooring it uphill.

This isn't the only issue I've had with the Jeep, and from my previous posts I've been continually complaining about a massive amount of drag on the Jeep when letting off the gas along with a shudder, which although I've pretty much come to accept that this is how it preforms I still think the torque converter is failing.

2013 JK, 28,500 miles. I've checked the trans fluid, level and color is good. Smells like a can of paint (acetone scent). Not sure what the stuff is supposed to smell like.

Any clues? Thanks!

FireGuy1996 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 03-26-2018, 07:09 PM
222Doc
Registered User
 
222Doc's Avatar
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Lake Havasu City
Posts: 10,274
Garage
no codes?

i would think its under geared. 3.21s larger tires more weight.

Home of the Parker Desert Splash

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
222Doc is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 03-26-2018, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
FireGuy1996
Registered User
 
FireGuy1996's Avatar
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Conway
Posts: 1,022
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 222Doc View Post
no codes?

i would think its under geared. 3.21s larger tires more weight.
You think the gearing is to blame? I'm not even sure if 3.21 is what I have for gears. Spec sheet from the VIN lookup says 3.21 but my diff's are missing the tags to confirm that, plus when I bought my Jeep I found out I had smaller than factory tires on it, more than likely because the PO had larger tires on it, possibly even re-geared it.

During my last Jeep meet up I had someone say that a 2013 automatic should have come from factory with 3.73 gears.

I do have an overland style storage system in the back of the Jeep. Weights a metric F-ck ton even when empty. Poor choice for material. I took most of it out of the Jeep though, just have the center shelf and the lower draws now. Wondering if that is adding too much extra weight on top of the tires, which are 33's by the way.
FireGuy1996 is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 Old 03-26-2018, 09:08 PM
222Doc
Registered User
 
222Doc's Avatar
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Lake Havasu City
Posts: 10,274
Garage
stock they are 3.21. no matter the trans. best way is count the times it takes the drive shaft to roll a tire one time. 3,73 is a option. the rubicon autos come 3.73 and they have the option to 4.1.

3.21 is meant for the smallest tires they toss on them. if you think about it 3.73 on the rubicon is geared for the 32s and the auto.notice they use 4.1 on the stick rubi, it needs it) you are at about 33 and 3.21. i remember when my heep was new on 32s and 4.1 auto it could fry the tires rather well. even on 35s it would spin them without much effort. when i went 37s, not so much but a bark off the line now. no trans shudder. but i have a lot less weight than you by far. i bet close to 1000lbs. mine is very stripped down. no doors, no top, no stock seats, no interior, all air bags, belts sound bar ,bass . if it aint going to make the jeep perform better its gone.

Home of the Parker Desert Splash

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
222Doc is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 03-26-2018, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
FireGuy1996
Registered User
 
FireGuy1996's Avatar
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Conway
Posts: 1,022
Garage
So I should be looking into a re-gear now instead of waiting for my (eventual) upgrade to 35's. For that matter I'm pretty sure I'd need to end up swapping the front axle correct?

As far as weight, I planned on ordering a full width front and rear bumper with a tire carrier in the next few weeks and putting a winch on the front as well. Would that, combined with my storage setup in the back, be cause enough to wreck the transmission because of the 3.21 gearing?

I have no rear seats, took those out to make room for the draws. I am running a hard top though.

My overall goal is 35's with a roof top tent, but both of those mods are looking like they won't happen for at least a few years. What should I be looking at for gearing that I could install now?

And no by the way, no codes.
FireGuy1996 is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 03-27-2018, 07:25 AM
cranbiz
Moderator
 
cranbiz's Avatar
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Wentworth
Posts: 5,251
On 35's and smaller you can regear the Dana 30. Depending on your use and if you have a locker, a Dana 44 might be something you consider.

I ran a D30 on 33's for 2 years with 3.21's for the first year and then regeared to 4.56. On 35's It didn't fare as well but that is also due to the way I use my Jeep.

I rock crawl fairly hard and had a lunchbox locker in my D30. Axle shafts had an issue with that. If you are not doing serious crawling, the D30 will be fine.

For gears, either 4.56 or 4.88 gears would be appropriate. With you being in the mountainous area of New Hampshire, 4.88's might be the gear of choice. 4.88's is also the lowest I would go in a Dana 30.

On 3.21's and 35's, the Jeep will be a dog but it's not going to hurt the transmission.

02 WJ Laredo, heavily optioned but stock
12 JK, 3.5" Teraflex/Franken lift, Bilstein 5100's, BFG KM3's 37x12.5/R17
17 WK2 Trailhawk
KN4BBA
cranbiz is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 03-27-2018, 08:30 AM
Wrigley
Registered User
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: fLORIDA
Posts: 437
I have a 2013 JK Sport that was experiencing similar issues to what you are experiencing. It turned out my transmission torque converter was bad. The only difference between your Jeep and mine is that I had a code on a couple of occasions. I would reset the code and drive for a month with no code but the symptom remained the same.


Mike
Wrigley is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 03-27-2018, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
FireGuy1996
Registered User
 
FireGuy1996's Avatar
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Conway
Posts: 1,022
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrigley View Post
I have a 2013 JK Sport that was experiencing similar issues to what you are experiencing. It turned out my transmission torque converter was bad. The only difference between your Jeep and mine is that I had a code on a couple of occasions. I would reset the code and drive for a month with no code but the symptom remained the same.


Mike
No codes for me. The only reason I think it's bad is because of that drag sensation. Feels like it's not unlocking or locking when it should.

How much does a regear even cost? I'd probably try buying the gears myself. Anyone got an idea as to how much would be involved in labor?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
FireGuy1996 is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 03-27-2018, 11:15 AM
cranbiz
Moderator
 
cranbiz's Avatar
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Wentworth
Posts: 5,251
My regear cost around $1400. You need the front and rear gears, master install kits for both and a carrier for the front unless you are adding a True Trac or a selectable locker at the same time. The master install kits should come with bearings, seals and shims. The gears, carrier and master install kits will run around $700-1000 depending on who's gears you buy and any package specials available. East Coast Gear Supply has a Dana kit with the carrier for $810 and free shipping, I'm sure other vendors out there are comparable.

I caught a 4 Wheel Parts sale on the regearing. You need specialized tools to correctly set the pinion preload although many have done that using other methods. You are looking at probably 8 hours shop time if you have someone install them for you.

Unfortunately, you don't have a 4 Wheel Parts anywhere close to you.

02 WJ Laredo, heavily optioned but stock
12 JK, 3.5" Teraflex/Franken lift, Bilstein 5100's, BFG KM3's 37x12.5/R17
17 WK2 Trailhawk
KN4BBA
cranbiz is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 03-27-2018, 01:26 PM
jwmbishop
Accidental Obfuscator
 
jwmbishop's Avatar
2020 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Corsicana, TX
Posts: 8,043
Garage
high loads (being in a low numeric gear increases load) can cause shudder so I agree - axle ratio can be culprit. However
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireGuy1996 View Post
This started happening about a month ago, and progressively getting more and more common.
gearing would have been a culprit from day one and I can't see how it would "get worse" (unless you've been wheeling more and hitting harder stuff?). My 11 shudders pretty bad if I don't let it pick its own gear and try to climb stuff in 4hi - and yes that means full throttle in 1st instead of half throttle in second sometimes! When you say low rpm's keep in mind - I try to hit 1800-2000 with my 3.8 - your 3.6 should be in good torque curve at around 1600-1800, anything lower would be expected to shudder some and if the engine is off its marks any (old spark plugs - but 28K is awful early for that to be it, old air cleaner, thin oil - remember you're VVT and that works on oil psi - etc) - basically anything that raises the torque curve "turn on" rpm will make shudder worse...

man I wish I had something better for you - your complaint of high rolling resistance is not a good thing... and nothing I could diagnose further without placing my own hands on the issue. the big concern is if the TC is not unlocking properly - but I would think THAT would code all over the place!

J Wm Bishop EA, ASADE
The wagon should, of course, be as light as possible, but strength should not be sacrificed to lightness, for on any but the regularly traveled roads, the wagon will get many a
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
jwmbishop is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 03-27-2018, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
FireGuy1996
Registered User
 
FireGuy1996's Avatar
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Conway
Posts: 1,022
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwmbishop View Post
high loads (being in a low numeric gear increases load) can cause shudder so I agree - axle ratio can be culprit. However
gearing would have been a culprit from day one and I can't see how it would "get worse" (unless you've been wheeling more and hitting harder stuff?). My 11 shudders pretty bad if I don't let it pick its own gear and try to climb stuff in 4hi - and yes that means full throttle in 1st instead of half throttle in second sometimes! When you say low rpm's keep in mind - I try to hit 1800-2000 with my 3.8 - your 3.6 should be in good torque curve at around 1600-1800, anything lower would be expected to shudder some and if the engine is off its marks any (old spark plugs - but 28K is awful early for that to be it, old air cleaner, thin oil - remember you're VVT and that works on oil psi - etc) - basically anything that raises the torque curve "turn on" rpm will make shudder worse...

man I wish I had something better for you - your complaint of high rolling resistance is not a good thing... and nothing I could diagnose further without placing my own hands on the issue. the big concern is if the TC is not unlocking properly - but I would think THAT would code all over the place!
As far as the oil goes, what do you mean by VVT? I am due for an oil change, I've sort of been putting it off for a while now because of the snow cover. Its not horrible but its time to replace it.

I haven't looked down to see what RPM's I'm at when the jerking starts. The jerking and the shudder are two different things by the way. The shudder occurs when I get that drag sensation on the Jeep when starting to coast. The jerking is when going uphill, no shudder.

It has been getting worse, or at least more noticeable. The drag has been there since day one of owning my Jeep, even with the factory tires. Nothing has made it better or worse, however some days it seems less noticeable than others.

The jerking is new over the past couple months ago. I've only experienced it three times that I can definitely say it was undeniable, other times I'm not sure if it is jerking because its barely noticeable or not.

I will say that the weight in the back of the Jeep has been progressively gotten heavier and heavier before today. I actually just got through ripping out most of my draw system and rebuilt the entire thing. I'm positive I just shaved about 100lbs off of the overall weight of it. Looks a lot nicer too. I'm wondering if I'll see a difference in any jerking of the Jeep from here on out with the reduced weight in the back.
FireGuy1996 is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 03-28-2018, 08:33 AM
jwmbishop
Accidental Obfuscator
 
jwmbishop's Avatar
2020 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Corsicana, TX
Posts: 8,043
Garage
VVT is variable valve timing. The engine uses oil pressure and control valves to pump up or bleed down the followers and advance or retard the cam drive and thus change valve lift and event timing - kind of like doing a cam change in 1/60th of a second based on demand. (a cam profile/timing that makes good torque at low RPM is not great at high RPM and vice - versa... VVT captures the whole spectrum which is why your torque curve is so flat and constant). SO viscosity of oil (which can change with breakdown and fuel dillution from blowby) plays a bit part.

I would compare no load coast (pop it into N at 45 and see how quickly it slows) to loaded (what happens when you lift leaving it in D) - both with and without OD. This may make it obvious as to whether the transmission is creating extra drag. I did this to mine yesterday as I was pondering your issue - and the difference is negligible in mine - about a 1 second difference from 45-40. (it took about three seconds to go from 45-40 in N but about two to go from 45-40 in D - expected as engine brake effect). VVT could make the 3.6 decel faster than my 3.8 - as retarding the timing and minimizing intake opening creates more compression braking... but still should not try to park it on the nose when you lift in D!

But DO make a point to put your eyes on the tach next time you feel it. If below 1600 - some shudder is expected (which is why TC unlocks)- but still shouldn't shake out your dental fillings...

J Wm Bishop EA, ASADE
The wagon should, of course, be as light as possible, but strength should not be sacrificed to lightness, for on any but the regularly traveled roads, the wagon will get many a
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
jwmbishop is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 03-28-2018, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
FireGuy1996
Registered User
 
FireGuy1996's Avatar
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Conway
Posts: 1,022
Garage
I'll do that neutral test tomorrow morning on my way home.

Does my Jeep even have an overdrive mode? I can't find a button other than maybe the hill decent button? Not even sure if that is what it is.

I'm also going to try a oil change in the next week or so when I have some good weather. 54 degrees out today, roads dry and feels like spring finally! Too bad I'm stuck at work...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
FireGuy1996 is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 03-28-2018, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
FireGuy1996
Registered User
 
FireGuy1996's Avatar
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Conway
Posts: 1,022
Garage
So I actually did the test on my way in between jobs just now. Didn't have a ton of time to go super in depth with it, just a quick test in the middle of a ride. Here where the results.

I got up to 45, let it coast in gear (drive) down to 35. Took 7-10 seconds (did this twice). Slight drag both times.

I got it up to 45 again, let it again drop to 35 this time in neutal. Easily could get 20+ seconds out of that. Did that twice also. I counted up to 15 seconds both times but then I started getting tailgated and honked at lol.

Whenever I was in neutral, absolutely no drag of any kind. Remember that the drag I feel on some days can be slight and others it feels like the Jeep's fighting me. Today it was slight.

As far as RPMs go, my Jeep seems to favor the lowest possible RPMs all the time. I'd say my average crusing RPMs is about 1500.

If accelerate out of my driveway, which is a down hill, going into a uphill street, it shifts from first to second after I start heading uphill, the RPMs drop low, and I mean below 1000 low. Then they kick back up because it goes back into first again. That's with moderate pedal. If I give it a little extra, it stays in first, shifts to second at the same point on the hill but it's much smoother and doesnt drop as low.

I will say consistently that my Jeep seems to enjoy 5th gear at 1200 RPMs ish for normal crusing. You can really hear the engine bog down when it does this.

I'm also not sure if I mentioned this before but occasionally with regular acceleration, the actual feeling from stop to moving, from first gear through second, feels very jerky as well. Like I'm getting bursts of acceleration instead of smooth.

I'm going to try to get a couple videos coming out of my driveway heading toward my second job. I'll post those up shortly.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
FireGuy1996 is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 03-30-2018, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
FireGuy1996
Registered User
 
FireGuy1996's Avatar
2013 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Conway
Posts: 1,022
Garage
Bump

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
FireGuy1996 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome