Vibration Help - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 7 Old 11-23-2015, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
Scotch740
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2005 LJ Wrangler 
 
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Location: Charlottesville VA
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Vibration Help

I purchased a neglected 98 TJ that came with a Dana 44, 4.56s ARBs and NP241. I have done extensive work to make it driveable but am still having trouble with a vibration with the front drive shaft and am coming to you all for some help. Just to note since buying the jeep I have not had the front shaft in and working at highway speed. The jeep was practically undriveable at any speed over 35mph when I bought it due to bad ball joints, bald SS boggers, loose tie rods and driveshaft slop.

Symptoms:
With the front and rear shafts installed in 2wd or 4wd I get a vibration starting at 55mph and it gets worse as speeds increase from there. I have the same results with the rear driveshaft removed and running only the frontshaft in 4wd. When I remove the front shaft I have no vibrations in 2wd or in 4wd at speeds up to 75mph. I have performed these tests on the road and on jack stands in the garage with similar results. Vibrations are unchanged under acceleration, coasting and decelerating at 55mph and higher. The vibrations are felt through the whole vehicle when they occur, steering wheel to the floor boards and seat.

Below are items I have replaced since I bought it (that I feel could be relevant):
-Ball joints
-Front axle shaft U joints
-Front Driveshaft U joints and centering ball (1330 U joints)
-Balanced front driveshaft
-Tire and wheels (33" cooper AT3s on Canyon wheels with 1.5" wheel spacers)
-Tie rod
-Steering stabilizer
-All 4 lower control arm bushings
-Transmission mount
-All fluids (no discrepancies other than some milky rear diff oil)

Below are items I have checked:
-Upper control arm (Rubicon express arms) bushings and joints (appear good)
-Caster angle (yoke ~1 degree lower than drive shaft)
-Toe in ~1/8"
-Unit bearings
-TC and axle yoke play both are about ~0.003”
-Runout of the driveshaft 0.025” at axle end, 0.45” at middle, 0.035” at TC end.
-Drive shaft slip joint, has some play but not a noticable amount more than my roommates TJs shaft
-Pulled the front diff to replace axle seals and clean axle tubes, diff appeared to be in good condition

Currently the driveshaft is at a driveline shop (same shop that balanced it 3 months ago) to have them check it out again.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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post #2 of 7 Old 11-24-2015, 01:27 AM
kachink
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Location: Lake Forest
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No answer, just a couple of suggestions based on chasing the same problem. With mine I've not found one thing that will definitely solve it.

- Make sure you have a good balance on the tires
- Reducing the toe-in will likely reduce the vibration but probably not eliminate it. (I am currently running <1/16")
- Check the track bar
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post #3 of 7 Old 11-24-2015, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
Scotch740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kachink View Post
No answer, just a couple of suggestions based on chasing the same problem. With mine I've not found one thing that will definitely solve it.

- Make sure you have a good balance on the tires
- Reducing the toe-in will likely reduce the vibration but probably not eliminate it. (I am currently running <1/16")
- Check the track bar
Thank you for the input. I feel the tires and toe in are good as the jeep tracks straight with no indication of death wobble in its current configuration with or without the drive shaft. The vibration is eliminated with the drive shaft removed at all speeds up to 75mph which is the fastest I really drive this thing.
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post #4 of 7 Old 11-24-2015, 10:42 PM
kachink
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Location: Lake Forest
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When I was having the vibration (only w/in a certain speed range and it usually took a trigger to start it) I removed the front DS as a test. It did not stop the vibe, but it was less violent. I've done several other things and the vibe is gone now, but I've haven't put the DS back in yet. Did you notice any change when you replaced the trans mount? That's about the only thing I have left to do. (this is an '05 TJ, not the ZJ in my profile)
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post #5 of 7 Old 11-25-2015, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
Scotch740
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The transmission mount was totally destroyed when I purchased it. I replaced it while doing a lot of other work so I cant comment on whether it helped at all at highway speeds.

Just got the front shaft back from the driveshaft shop (Gregory's driveline and fleet supply in Va Beach). This was my 3rd time going to them and ive been really happy with the service and knowledge of those guys every time. They did some work on the runout and checked balance again at a very good price. Well see if that did anything for my vibrations....
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post #6 of 7 Old 11-25-2015, 03:53 PM
stripperguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotch740 View Post


....
-Runout of the driveshaft 0.025” at axle end, 0.45” at middle, 0.035” at TC end.
-Drive shaft slip joint, has some play but not a noticable amount more than my roommates TJs shaft
-Pulled the front diff to replace axle seals and clean axle tubes, diff appeared to be in good condition

Currently the driveshaft is at a driveline shop (same shop that balanced it 3 months ago) to have them check it out again.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I hope that's a typo!!
I was in the same position you are in...excessive vibes that disappeared when the front DS was removed.
I measured my DS runout at the middle of it's length, it was 0.250 inch TIR, and that much runout was very noticeable. Local driveshaft shop said no way they could balance out that runout.
I replaced the front DS with a Tom Woods and all much better after that.
I also had too much caster, causing the double cardan to work too hard.
After backing off on the caster angle, all is smooth, smooth, smooth.

1977 CJ5 is a CJ build ever really done?
2002 TJ gone
2005 TJ also gone
2005 LJ insurance wreck
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post #7 of 7 Old 11-25-2015, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
Scotch740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripperguy View Post
I hope that's a typo!!
I was in the same position you are in...excessive vibes that disappeared when the front DS was removed.
I measured my DS runout at the middle of it's length, it was 0.250 inch TIR, and that much runout was very noticeable. Local driveshaft shop said no way they could balance out that runout.
I replaced the front DS with a Tom Woods and all much better after that.
I also had too much caster, causing the double cardan to work too hard.
After backing off on the caster angle, all is smooth, smooth, smooth.
Whoops, that was a typeO. It should be 0.045". Thanks for taking the time to read this close enough to catch that.

I put the shaft in today after getting it back from the shop. Still have vibrations! I told the guys at the shop I was on the verge of buying a brand new shaft and they told me not to, that the shaft was fine.

I pulled the driver side axle shaft because it had 0.050" of runout to see if that was causing it. The diff fluid that came out was copper colored so I pulled the diff cover. I guess when I did the seals in the axle tube I must have let the copper air line tube be too close to the carrier and it broke off and the carrier bolts were slowly grinding away at the tube. So I pulled the passenger shaft and carrier to replace the ARB seal housing ****ing $100 part... Anyways I tested the shaft with the carrier removed up on jack stands and still have vibrations with only the pinion and drive shaft turning so I know its nothing to do with the internals of the axle (Pinion bearing seams good). I rechecked the play in my TC output and its closer to 0.010" not 0.003 as i previous stated. Guess I screwed up the measurements or something. Rear is about the same. So im considering rebuilding the TC right now.... Staring to get angry at this jeep...
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