SAGGING and BOTTOMING after LOAD-OUT - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 81 Old 07-15-2019, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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SAGGING and BOTTOMING after LOAD-OUT

My TJ has developed a nasty sag and bottoming problem as it gets out fitted and loaded out. I have the synergy/poly outboard kit and plan to fit 12" shocks in there. Still, it will sag, probably not bottom but still sag. I have not put the rear armor on yet.

I'm running a rubicon express 4.5" longarm kit. The springs are spec length when unsprung. I have put in a metalcloak spring relocation kit that netted 1/4" up and I added a 1/2" spacer. Those are the nutshell details

Would putting a pair of 5.5" re springs "fix it"? What do you overlander types do to keep out the sag?

I'm not looking to "take stuff off" that others think I don't need, lets not roll that path. I'm looking for a solution to the sag. THANKS kindly!

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post #2 of 81 Old 07-15-2019, 05:28 PM
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If it isn't sitting as high as you want, you either need a taller spring or increased spring rate.

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post #3 of 81 Old 07-15-2019, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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Higher spring rate sounds like the answer. How do I achieve that? Is there a manufacturer that makes a higher rate spring? I don’t want to go any higher if possible. Thanks for the reply!!

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post #4 of 81 Old 07-15-2019, 06:40 PM
2jhanna
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How bout air bags inside the springs.
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post #5 of 81 Old 07-15-2019, 07:54 PM
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Gravity butter? No not in this heat. Moon pull parachute? Nah that only works when the moons above you. Leaf springs? No those are for poor people.

Do you like the stock ride when the jeep is I unloaded? If so, helper bags may be the answer. I know youíre a fox guy, but I had a pair of shocks once you could add air to to boost the spring rate. I think they were monroes. It was like a built in helper bag.


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post #6 of 81 Old 07-15-2019, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2jhanna View Post
How bout air bags inside the springs.
Full disclosure, I like rocks. I could not imagine a bag surviving long inside one of these springs.

However, if I am missing something, you have my attention.




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post #7 of 81 Old 07-15-2019, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Gravity butter? No not in this heat. Moon pull parachute? Nah that only works when the moons above you. Leaf springs? No those are for poor people.

Do you like the stock ride when the jeep is I unloaded? If so, helper bags may be the answer. I know youíre a fox guy, but I had a pair of shocks once you could add air to to boost the spring rate. I think they were monroes. It was like a built in helper bag.


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Fox does make a 2.0 air shock. It is "generally" used inplace of a spring on rock buggies, etc.. Might be worth looking into.

I must say this too. This was the first trip to really utilize the new Fox 2.0 LSC (v2). Know, I just got out of the poor mans leaf springs, so I may be swallowing fairy dust, but those shocks were nothing short of amazing. as soon as a tire would feel like it was going to spin, the tire would touch the ground and grab a handful of traction, nice and slow, evenly. At least on the front.

So, I have started the preps to get a second set on the rear. I had Fullstack Motorsport do the tune, I suspect that had a lot to do with the performance too.

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post #8 of 81 Old 07-16-2019, 12:06 AM
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Carry less. That's a lot of stuff. Seriously.
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post #9 of 81 Old 07-16-2019, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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Carry less. That's a lot of stuff. Seriously.
from post #1:

I'm not looking to "take stuff off" that others think I don't need, lets not roll that path. I'm looking for a solution to the sag. THANKS kindly!

That said, it is 6gl of fuel, a spare, (pelican) 20qt ice chest, 2gl of ice cold water, picnic basket, shovel/axe and a 30' strap (which was an after thought).

All the stuff needed to make a perfect day. Nothing like an ice cold drink out of a rotomolded chest and a sandwich with all the fixins on a picnic blanket tucked off the trail.
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post #10 of 81 Old 07-16-2019, 12:41 AM
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I get that. But you are doing an outboard with tuned shocks, so performance must be of some concern. That Beverly Hillbilly pile hanging behind the rear axle is screwing up far more than just your rear ride height.

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post #11 of 81 Old 07-16-2019, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
I get that. But you are doing an outboard with tuned shocks, so performance must be of some concern. That Beverly Hillbilly pile hanging behind the rear axle is screwing up far more than just your rear ride height.

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Ya, my Jeep, your opinion. No worries. I'm looking for an opinion from those who have solved the sag and still be hillbilly.

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post #12 of 81 Old 07-16-2019, 02:44 AM
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Increased spring rate will make for a stiff ride when unloaded, which I assume is the vast majority of the time
Taller springs will give ya back that rake when unloaded
Air bags in the springs are tough, alot tougher than ya think
FOX 2.0 air shocks? never herd of them
A second set of 'soft' air shocks? would look odd.....

Just quick thoughts
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post #13 of 81 Old 07-16-2019, 05:04 AM
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The only way to have it both ways that I know of is to air bag it. Otherwise you'll need a much harder spring and that will ruin your ride the rest of the time. As said they are known to be tough. 18 wheelers use them. That should tell you how tough they are.
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post #14 of 81 Old 07-16-2019, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
I get that. But you are doing an outboard with tuned shocks, so performance must be of some concern. That Beverly Hillbilly pile hanging behind the rear axle is screwing up far more than just your rear ride height.


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Ya, my Jeep, your opinion. No worries. I'm looking for an opinion from those who have solved the sag and still be hillbilly.

[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/JeepForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_smile.png[/IMG]
First, make sure your bump stops are correctly extended by removing the coils and cycling the axle with a floor jack. I forget if you did this after the recent shock incident.

With the Jeep back together and sitting at it's normal ride height, get a good measurement of the space between the lower axle pad and the bottom of the soft bump stop jounce. Also measure the inner diameter of the coil.

Call AirRide. Explain that the Jeep is not stock and that their usual recommendation will not work for your specific application (their recommendation is incorrect to begin with). Have them help find a load support bag that will fit within the measurements your took earlier. The bag measurements need to be in it's deflated state. And you are not going to cut the soft jounce.
20181214_192424_1563276624874.jpg

This needs to happen after you settle on the normal ride height with springs, after the outboard, after your bump stops have been reduced and the new shocks positioned. Or else you will be buying new bags.

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post #15 of 81 Old 07-16-2019, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WSS View Post
My TJ has developed a nasty sag and bottoming problem as it gets out fitted and loaded out. I have the synergy/poly outboard kit and plan to fit 12" shocks in there. Still, it will sag, probably not bottom but still sag. I have not put the rear armor on yet.

I'm running a rubicon express 4.5" longarm kit. The springs are spec length when unsprung. I have put in a metalcloak spring relocation kit that netted 1/4" up and I added a 1/2" spacer. Those are the nutshell details

Would putting a pair of 5.5" re springs "fix it"? What do you overlander types do to keep out the sag?

I'm not looking to "take stuff off" that others think I don't need, lets not roll that path. I'm looking for a solution to the sag. THANKS kindly!

WSS

What about the roof top tent?

The max payload for a stock TJ is 800lbs. Air bags are probably your best bet to deal with bottoming out but your performance and handling you still suffer. You probably have 1/3 (or more) of that out past your bumper, about the worst place to have it. Your jeep will always handle poorly when loaded like this.

I do so long weekend camping trips (overlanding to some). I did the load the **** out of my jeep thing a couple times but stopped. I tank a tent, a change or too of clothes, non perishable food (no ice chest, bottled water with flavor packets and 5 gallons of gas. If I go comfy camping I load up a trailer. There is a reason the Land Cruiser / Range Rover is popular for true overlanding and not the TJ.

Best solution for carrying all the stuff is buy a different vehicle.

01 TJ,33X12.5Falken WP ATs,Winch, ARBs F&R, belly up, some armor,4.0,5spd
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