RE 4.5 springs to .... ? Looking for options - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
TJnBC
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RE 4.5 springs to .... ? Looking for options

I am currently looking to swap out my stiff RE 4.5" springs on my 2006 LJR. I am currently running new TMR adj CAs, 4.5" RE springs, newer Rancho 7000MT shocks on 36s.

I usually air down to about 13-15 psi when cruising down forest roads. I hate how stiff the coils are when unloaded. They ride like an empty dump truck, even with quality shocks installed. I am hoping someone has swapped out the same coils for another set, and the height remained relatively the same.

I have extended front towers which allow for an 11" shock (5 1/4" up/ 5 3/4" down travel), so I don't really want to go messing around with shock heights and/or replacing shocks.

Thanks in advance. Before and after pics really help OR just plain real world experiences swapping these out.

Cheers.


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post #2 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 11:56 AM
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Yours would be an interesting test. Does it still ride like a dump truck with the shocks removed?
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post #3 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
Yours would be an interesting test. Does it still ride like a dump truck with the shocks removed?
Good question. I have not tried without them. I guess I could pull them and find out.

I do remembering swapping out my old REs on my swb TJ, to MC dual rates. the ride GREATLY improved all around, using the same shocks. Held corners better, not as harsh on rough forest roads, never unseated.

The ride is a bit better when I am loaded and towing my trailer. It just seems with their heavy spring rate, if you are not loaded, they ride like a empty horse wagon haha. Seems to be the consensus on the LJ/TJ forums for REs.

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post #4 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 12:15 PM
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You're jumping right in the middle of that great debate about spring vs shocks. I haven't read good things about the 7000 shocks being comfortable. Others have been challenged to take a drive on their RE springs to see how perceptibly stiff they really are. I haven't seen anyone actually do it, though.

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post #5 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I hear ya. Although when I swapped from RE to MC on my last TJ, I was using 7000s. The ride was night and day changing coils ONLY.
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post #6 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 01:05 PM
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u can put in any spring u like, it wont soften the ride hardly at all.
i run the re springs too. mine rides very soft. most would think too soft.

i run el cheapo skyjacker hydros, 11" of travel each corner.
they were the softest valved shock i could find.

ride is 99% shocks.

springs just carry weight, and set ride height.

by all means, find the softest rate springs, and try them out.

temporarily u could try factory springs with two 2" spacers on each.
they will be close enough to your height to try your ride test.
they are the softest rate springs u will find.
should be a cheap test too.
u could sell the spacers after the test.

everything i heard about the rancho 7ks is they are very harsh.
try the rancho 5000 x maybe?
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post #7 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_jeep View Post
u can put in any spring u like, it wont soften the ride hardly at all.
i run the re springs too. mine rides very soft. most would think too soft.

i run el cheapo skyjacker hydros, 11" of travel each corner.
they were the softest valved shock i could find.

ride is 99% shocks.

springs just carry weight, and set ride height.

by all means, find the softest rate springs, and try them out.

temporarily u could try factory springs with two 2" spacers on each.
they will be close enough to your height to try your ride test.
they are the softest rate springs u will find.
should be a cheap test too.
u could sell the spacers after the test.

everything i heard about the rancho 7ks is they are very harsh.
try the rancho 5000 x maybe?
Thanks for the info. Funny thing is on my last TJ (and this LJ) I swapped out Bilsteins because I thought they were too "soft".

I plan on outboarding the rear, so maybe it is time to go to Fox's while I am at it

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post #8 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJnBC View Post
Thanks for the info. Funny thing is on my last TJ (and this LJ) I swapped out Bilsteins because I thought they were too "soft".

I plan on outboarding the rear, so maybe it is time to go to Fox's while I am at it
ride is subjective.
u might like it more firm than i do, thats ok!

many people think bilsteins are quite firm.
i have read "you can run over a quarter, and tell if its heads or tails"
about bils shocks. they are a quality shock though.

if you want foxes, u might look and see if savvy is selling their foxes valved for their lift.
might be a good option. a quality shock for sure.

u can also adjust air pressure too.
many people just run way too much air in the tires.
i run 24 psi on the street
10 psi on the trail.
7 psi in the sand.
c range tires of course.

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post #9 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 03:14 PM
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Comparisons between springs can't reliably be made if the ride heights changed. Changes in ride heights change the shock performance which will have a more pronounced effect than the change in springs.

Also, the issue with Bilsteins that I have noticed is how jittery they feel compared to my Alltech Foxes and Rancho 5000x. The larger hits haven't been bad, but the small stuff is miserable compared to how it could be.

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post #10 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
Comparisons between springs can't reliably be made if the ride heights changed. Changes in ride heights change the shock performance which will have a more pronounced effect than the change in springs.

Also, the issue with Bilsteins that I have noticed is how jittery they feel compared to my Alltech Foxes and Rancho 5000x. The larger hits haven't been bad, but the small stuff is miserable compared to how it could be.
This is the best way to describe mine too. On the long, deeper holes no issues. It is the small, more frequent, washboard (quick rebound) type terrain that is bone jarring, at times.

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post #11 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 03:55 PM
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Having wallowed around in this before, I'm really curious to know how the Jeep behaves without shocks and just the RE coils.

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post #12 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
I'm really curious to know how the Jeep behaves without shocks and just the RE coils.
im curious too, but i know the out come.
if they are too stiff it wont bounce much at all.

it will bounce plenty!
the spring rate from stiffest to softest aint that much.

i went from ome light to re 3.5s.
not all that different.

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post #13 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
Having wallowed around in this before, I'm really curious to know how the Jeep behaves without shocks and just the RE coils.
I am curious too BUT I live at least 45min to the nearest forest road to test them on. I am not too keen on driving this down the hwy with no shocks. If I trailered it, I would remove the shocks tonight and rip to the trail this weekend.

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post #14 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TJnBC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjvw View Post
Having wallowed around in this before, I'm really curious to know how the Jeep behaves without shocks and just the RE coils.
I am curious too BUT I live at least 45min to the nearest forest road to test them on. I am not too keen on driving this down the hwy with no shocks. If I trailered it, I would remove the shocks tonight and rip to the trail this weekend.
A drive around the block will suffice. What if I did the same with my Curries? Even though we can't compare, it still might be interesting.

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post #15 of 56 Old 10-15-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
How far did you drive it with no shocks to see how stiff the springs actually were?
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
I already asked the question but here is the problem with that scenario.

Unless you dialed in the ride height to be the same with the correct amount of shock travel, then the issue is not spring rate related, it is ride height related.

Put another way. If you take a heavier rate spring and put it on a rig that is lighter with a shock that is set up for a specific lift height, then the balance is off. What will happen when you encounter higher level events is the rear end will kick up faster and hit the end of the shock which tries to lift the axle off the ground and that will seem very harsh in ride quality.

If you take the same exact set-up and put a softer rate spring in that lowers ride height and brings the shock travel back into balance, then the ride improvement is from the travel of the shock being utilized better and not from the softer spring.

I also find it very odd that we can swap a different rate spring in without making any other adjustments. I've yet to see springs with these different rates that didn't also produce a different ride height. What am I missing about these springs?
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
I think a bunch of this gets easier to understand if you have run a shock like a Rancho 9000 on a moderate weight rig and then played with the various settings.

While they are not a go fast performance shock, they will teach you in short order exactly what function a shock has when it comes to ride quality.

You can go from soft and squishy to the ride quality of a log wagon with the turn of a dial.

For the record, my opinion of Bilstein has probably irritated more folks than should be legal and I just use their opinion of them as a barometer to show how well they judge ride quality.
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
If you can tolerate the Bilsteins, that will invalidate any discussion you and I may have from now on. They are quite possibly the most annoying damper I've ever used.

Folks tend to brag about how nicely they eat up the larger events while failing to mention accurately in the same breath they are real handy at determining if a quarter is heads or tails simply by passing a tire over it.

Small event harshness is quite annoying to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
I don't care which you care about the most. What I cared about was the example given "I only changed springs and went from harsh to plush" when I have yet to see two different rate springs give the exact same ride height.

When I pointed out the glaring discrepancy in the logic and asked for examples, they weren't very forthcoming as in not at all.

Since no one stepped up with the before and after measurements and where their shocks were in the stroke range, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that it was NOT just changing springs that affected the ride quality, but fixing what was wrong with the previous relationship.

And then we get the "Oh I'm so glad I didn't listen because now I have a perfect riding rig and all I did was swap the springs" which only perpetuates the ignorance.

From now on, my answer will be to order all the springs you can get your hands on and keep swapping them in until you get what you're after because that's all that matters anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
If you take a 9" stroke shock that is off balance with 7" of shaft showing at ride height, it's going to ride like crap. If you put springs in that lower the ride height by even 1", the ride will improve noticeably but not because the spring is better riding, the suspension has more travel before it tries to yank the axle off the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinmichguy_ View Post
TheBoogieman is a jerk.
03' Rubicon/Zone 4" coils with 1" spacers up front/Rancho shocks/5.13 gears-35" MTZs/BM brakes
99' XJ / 5" lift / Rancho shocks/33" DC Extreme country MTs. Jeep #18
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